PT Anakin should have killed Dooku in Ep. II, and spared Grevious in Ep. III

I am one of those fans who falls in the "in between" camp on the prequels. On the one hand they were quite visually stunning, and there was a lot to like about the world building, digital set pieces, and overall grand epic scale of the entire project. On the other hand, I also agree there is something story wise that made the prequels feel not quite right, and for the most part, I feel that it was Episode II that was the focal point of this feeling. Also, I'm sorry if there is another thread dedicated to these topics already.

That said, my main complaint with the prequels is that Anakin never really did anything that grand or great. His turn was foreshadowed at every turn, and I never really felt like he got a movie to be a big "hero," like Luke did with the original Star Wars.

Therefore, I think a lot could have been improved if Anakin amazingly saved the day in Attack of the Clones, and instead of the bumbling rescue effort was more like Luke in ROTJ. Moreover, I think he should have valiantly saved Obi-wan from Dooku. (Yoda should not have gone up against Dooku, that type of wizardry shoudl have been saved for Episode III to allow Anakin to be the hero in Episode II). I also think that the foreshadowing should have come in that while Anakin saves the Jedi and defeats Dooku, he should have tapped into the dark side at some point to save Padme from Dooku. A situation where Anakin already bravely defeated Dooku, but while he was being taken into custody he threatens Padme and Anakin loses it and destroys him. Episode II would end on a note of triumph, but on a note of worry from Obi-wan who is concerned about his padawan falling to the dark side.

Then, in episode III, a similar situation could have occurred with Anakin and Grevious (standing in for Dooku who was killed in rage by Anakin in Episode II). Only this time, Obi-wan convinces Anakin not to turn to the dark side to destroy Grevious, but otherwise everything turns out the way it did in the movie. Obi-wan (also the audience) is led to believe that Anakin has faced the darkness and has come back, and is fundamentally good and will not be tempted again.

Then Anakin turns evil the same way he did. I just think this slight adjustment might have been more powerful, and also saving the Yoda lightsabre fight just for the Emperor would have made Episode III much more epic and the prequels much better received.

 

I think Anakin killing Dooku in Episode III has its place. It gives Dooku the chances to escape and you get a Sith to act as a main antagonist throughout the Clone Wars. Then, at the tail end of the conflict, Anakin gets his revenge for messing him up back in Ep. II. Episode II had plenty of Anakin turning to the dark side and that sub-plot reaches its climax with him killing the sand people. Taking it even further would, in my opinion, invalidate Anakin going full-blown Sith in Episode III. By the time Anakin rescues Palpatine, it's pretty clear that the Chancellor has been working him over real good while the Clone Wars were going on.

 

Well we do see Anakin become a hero at the beginning of Episode 3... He kills Dooku, puts Obi-Wan on over his shoulder and pilots half of the ship down to Coruscant.... That's pretty heroic.

 

I feel like it's too late by that point, it's one of the Plinkett criticisms that rings true to me, they sort of just shoehorn it in and it's more just a random opening adventure than epic finale. Like Obi-wan killing Darth Maul in episode I, Anakin should have gotten his chance to defeat a major sith in a heroic fashion. Anakin as presented in the prequels wasn't really a great hero, he was more Obi-wan's moody sidekick.

 

That's an interesting idea, but quite redundant if Obi-wan kills Grievous later on in the movie as happens. Obi-wan not killing Grievous would enhance his character, IMO, by contrasting him with Anakin who does kill Dooku, whereas I don't feel that what happens in the movie really changes Obi-wan's character from what it was before. He should have at least been regretful that he had to kill, i.e. expressed a belief that what he did was morally wrong and a futile part of the war. This is as opposed to Anakin, who seems to feel, or is being manipulated by Palatine to believe, that what he is doing is morally fine as the ends justify the means.
Of course that would require re-jigging the fight sequence, but it would also be interesting to have a character such as Grievous still alive (but irrelevant to the immediate plot) at the end*, and the difference between his and Anakin's actions would help to show the gap rapidly emerging between them as characters.
I think that killing Dooku in episode II is also an interesting idea, but the gap between movies (both for the viewer and in the timeline) would weaken the analogy being posed. It would also require Dooku's introduction to occur sooner in the film than it did, which would disrupt the development of the plot as it currently stands.

Oh, by the way it's spelled Grievous

*I am a massive Grievous fan. Any story alteration in which he doesn't die (or has a more meaningful death) is fine by me.

 

I think that General Grievous should have been killed by Anakin at the start of ROTS (he wasn't needed anyway), then Dooku should have escaped to Utapah (probably not spelled right) and filled in the role that Grievous played in the movie. Obi Wan would have hunted Dooku down and beaten him in combat, as part of Palpatine's plan as he seduces Anakin.

 

Better yet, have Maul be in the role of Dooku and Dooku in the role of Grievous, and have no Grievous (cough cough)

 

Emperor Ferus

You have no reason to quote your own post literally a minute after making it. You have 60 minutes to edit a post and add something in if you'd like. Please do that from now on

 

Anakin is plenty heroic in TPM, as far as I'm concerned. He never hesitates to put his life on the line to help out and ends up saving the day twice.
In AOTC, he displays skill, or potential, beyond Obi-Wan's, but his heroic attitude takes on a darker guise than in the previous episode, which leads to him failing more than once. Still, he does what he can to help those in need and if it weren't for him, Zam would've gotten away.

Anakin is simply a brave, well-meaning kid who sometimes falls victim to his own arrogance but never stops caring and trying his best.
That's not a perfect hero, but a hero nonetheless.

 

I agree with the OP in that Anakin never quite comes off as heroic.

The problem is that, by early in AOTC, I was not rooting for Anakin or the romance. I didn't care if Anakin failed, or if the romance failed. I wasn't "shipping" them, nor was I pleading for Anakin to do the right thing. I didn't care, I didn't find him tragic, because the desire to see him succeed had not been built up in me. I didn't find the romance tragic or, well, romantic. It didn't move me.

I'm actually quite a fan of old romances. I have many posts in the JCC attesting to that. The one in the PT just wasn't to my liking.

I know a movie like this is working when I'm desperately pleading for things to work out in the end, when I'm nervous that it won't. Well, that never happened for me when watching the PT.

Quibbling here, but I feel that this actually happened in AOTC when Anakin leaped to save Obi-Wan from Dooku's coup de grace.

I find that to be one of Anakin's most endearing moments.

Now, perhaps you find that it is undermined by Anakin losing to Dooku fairly quickly afterward...but I just wanted to point out that Anakin does valiantly save Obi-Wan from Dooku in AOTC.

 

I liked that post partly because of what you pointed out there at the end. That is indeed a strongly heroic moment and personally, I feel it's appropriate that Anakin loses to Dooku afterwards, as it helps illustrate his advancement when he beats Dooku in their next encounter.

My other reason for liking your post was your respectful tone as you explained that you simply never grew to care enough about Anakin to worry.
I think I understand why, with Anakin not being the most likeable person in the universe, but it's a shame

 

I agree the prequels needed this moment in AoTc instead of Rots by then it was too late to see Anakin kill a Sith.

I wont go into details love to do my version of prequels in a YouTube video oneday but in my version the following big changes would have happened:

Epi 1 starts off with a padawan Anakin 16-18years old in the midst of the clone wars. The big moment at the end is Qui gon being killed by Maul and Anakin showing his poetential by going mono e mono against Maul but ultimately losing. We see the first hints of his anger/rage and darkside brewing. Maul survives and the jedi are made aware the sith have returned. Ep 2 has Anakin face off against Maul again and this time kill him out of vengeance for killing his master Qui gon. We see him embrace the darkness more now but he fights it from overtaking him with padme's love and obi wans guidance. Finally in Epi 3 we see the end of clone wars and how Anakin has really begun to go off the deep end. He brutally takes out Grevious in the opening and shows no remorse. Finally he faces the ultimate test and kills Mace Windu and joins Palaptine as a Sith. Things play at similar from there.This way allows Anakin to slowly transform instead of the rushed job we got. The prophesy, chosen one elements would all stay the same.

 

no,

more Dooku the better.

 

I think what is overlooked when it comes to Anakin's story, i.e. the prequels, is that his role as the tragic hero was not meant so much to show his heroism, but the rapid fall from the point of hero, and the turn to evil that encompassed him as Vader. We see glimpses of Anakin being a hero in Phantom Menace, but then in Attack of the Clones, we see the struggles he goes through as he questions his role, and his greatness, etc. Finally we see the fall of the hero, and how all the struggles manifested themselves within him, and how it led to his being easily manipulated by Sidious, leading to him ultimately turning. I believe the prequels were meant to show more the tragic part of the tragic hero than they were in showing the hero. Also, I think the order of the duels is well done so we can see the growth of Anakin, as well as the fall of Anakin. Defeating Dooku in III at the behest of Palpatine, shows how Anakin's frustrations have allowed him to be toyed with by Palpatine.

 

OP has the right icon and username.


Carry that weight, Paul. And Obi-wan is the best SW character