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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Anakin should not have killed the younglings

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by truthspeaker, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Actually Anakin was the perfect choice to slay the younglings. Anakin was already a trusted member of the Jedi Order and thus could lure many younglings into confidence and then kill them. Clones could have potentially done the job, but only Anakin was Force-sensitive enough to find every single youngling and Force User in the Jedi Temple. It may have been tedious and for us Jedi, barbaric and appalling, but Anakin was acting in the best interest of the Empire.
     
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  2. skygawker

    skygawker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Yeah, Anakin had to be the one to kill the younglings. There's a reason all those kids were sent up there in the first place: for protection. The Council Chamber was supposed to be a safe place--Anakin was able to get in because he was a Council member, but clones would have had a much more difficult time of it.
     
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  3. StarWars2015

    StarWars2015 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2012
    This is one of a thousand reasons that the prequels should be considered non canon...

    It would have been better if a couple of surviving
    Jedi had loading the children on a ship and during the ships escape it is shot down by Clone troopers with Ground to Air weaponary, This could have been While Anakin was pre occupied with other Jedi defending the Temple.....
     
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  4. JoshieHewls

    JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2013
    Orrrr you could just not watch them. Crazy concept, I know, but...
     
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  5. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    StarWars2015, The Prequels may not be perfect, but they should remain canon. Anakin/Vader slaying of the Younglings is part of his descent to darkness. I remember getting the chills when he walks into the room and the youngling says, "Master Skywalker, there are too many, what are we going to do," and Vader ignites his lightsaber. [face_worried]
     
  6. Cael-Fenton

    Cael-Fenton Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2006
    I'm not really sure I understand the issue about making Vader monstrous as opposed to a sympathetic villain. I thought it was obvious from RotJ (and if it wasn't, GL's remarks which others have already quoted earlier in this thread make it clear) that Anakin didn't atone for his crimes. He was redeemed by Luke's faith, compassion and forgiveness. If anything, the horror of his crimes as shown in RotS makes Luke's extraordinary compassion, and the power of the final scenes of RotJ, all the greater.
     
  7. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    the audience needs to know how bad vader has gotten and that he is beyond redemption. that scene works perfectly.
     
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  8. Bob Octa

    Bob Octa Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 6, 2013
    It seems like George just can't ever win. Show how Anakin was once an innocent person? People complain. Show how he became a "master of evil"? Complaints.
     
  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Why? ANH said that Vader helped kill Jedi and that is exactly what he did.
     
  10. Gamma626

    Gamma626 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 6, 2014
    The problem is that he was never really either. He was an innocent kid in TPM, but his age from AotC and on show that he was an arrogant, unruly, spoiled, irritable brat, that should have been expelled from the Jedi academy long before the events from episode 2. He was a strong force user, sure, but he never once showed himself to be truly capable of becoming a Jedi and following the ways of the Jedi Council. He was a rabid dog. If Qui-Gonn had survived, it's possible this wouldn't have been the case, but Anakin had no respect for the surviving Jedi. To be fair, they never did anything to EARN his respect either. It was like having a terrible boss at work. You need to earn your respect, and the Jedi Council certainly didn't.

    As far as being a master of evil, he really wasn't. Sidious is the true master of evil. With Vader, you have the excuse of "but he did it to try and save his family!" A true master of evil does it because he can. He does it for the pleasure of doing it.
     
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  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The Council respected him, but they stopped trusting him when he started acting un-Jedi like. But Anakin wasn't a rabid dog. He was a good man who was fighting against the darkness within himself. The only part the Jedi Council was guilty of was that they thought that they had banished the darkness within themselves long ago, but they didn't. They were just denying that it existed.
     
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  12. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011

    Is that not the point though? That evil isn't cool or badass -- that it is childish, selfish, petty, and inherently pathetic? Vader's reveal in ROTJ seemed to confirm this -- a ruin of a man, pale, old, destroyed before his time. Evil never targets the strong -- it targets the weak and vulnerable. Vader in the original trilogy fought an old man and a half-trained boy -- both of whom hesitated to kill him. He never willingly challenged a foe who measured up or outclassed him until the end when he threw Palpatine over the railing, which, incidentally, also marked his return to the light.

    That the PT shows him slaughtering children and the begging leaders of the Separatists only reinforces this fact.
     
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  13. natureboy76

    natureboy76 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Darth Plagueis is no longer canon, right? I'd like to see a story of darth sidious on screen.
     
  14. Separatist101

    Separatist101 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 11, 2010
    Anakin was already Darth Vader by this point, he didn't give a toss about younglings or how old they were, his master wanted them dead, so he slaughtered them
     
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  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Right. All of the books, comics and video games are out. Only "The Clone Wars" cartoon from 2008 on and the "Darth Maul: Son Of Dathormir" series count going forward. Certain material may reappear in a different context, but that remains to be seen.
     
  16. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000
    At the risk of sounding like a sociopath, this was actually one of my favorite scenes in the movie. Yes, I applaud Lucas for having the guts to "go there." Anakin was no longer Anakin at this point. He was Darth Vader, who--if you remember the OT--is pretty ****ing evil. This illustrates this perfectly. I liked it. The scene with the little boy gave me chills.
     
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  17. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    Yes, but he was mentioned in ROTS. So while the details of his character or not canon, the character is.
     
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  18. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Some people still say that Anakin was "tricked" into joining the Dark Side, as if he had no free will of his own on the matter. I think Lucas made it quite clear that, while Anakin was misguided, he still did deplorable things by his own hand... this situation probably the most memorable in filmgoers' minds.

    Clones could have EASILY taken care of the younglings. But Vader took it upon himself to do the deed, which says a lot about how far he's escalated at this point. His hatred for the Jedi Order has allowed him to indiscriminately kill children. There is no wiggle room for Anakin maybe being good at this point.
     
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  19. DylanFett

    DylanFett Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2014
    I think Palpatine should of corrupted the younglings and started to rebuild the sith order. And Vader does do all the dirty work were all Palpatine did was draw a circle with a smaller circle in it and called it a Death Star!
     
  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    I never said otherwise. The novel is out.

    "...if you start with Star Wars, then Vader’s just the villain, and that’s it. But you don’t realize that he’s a human being, that he’s got problems you don’t realize that he could have been saved, that he was tricked and can be resurrected."

    --George Lucas.

    Anakin was only tricked in that events were manipulated to the point where Anakin couldn't quite tell what was right and what was wrong, but he willing chose to do evil because of his selfishness and greed.



    It wasn't so much hatred as it was protecting himself and Palpatine, than outright hate. However, he did let hate into his heart there and when he went to Mustafar, that is where his hate was really evident.



    That's not a smart move.

    "One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith Lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the dark side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, become the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies."

    --George Lucas, Bill Moyers Time Magazine Interview; 1999.

    The Sith are the natural enemy of the Jedi. As George Lucas describes it, the Sith were once in control of the galaxy 1000 years in the past. Unfortunately, the Sith's hunger for conquest got the better of them-so many Sith lords were vying for ultimate control that it led to infighting among their ranks. Such internecine struggles were exploited by the Jedi Knights of the era, and they were able to turn the tide and defeat the Sith.

    As Ki-Adi-Mundi states in Episode I, the Sith have been extinct for a millenium; however, not all were wiped out. A surviving Sith Lord sought to rebuild the order, to retake the galaxy, and to take revenge. This Sith Lord realized the dangers of having too many in the order, so he kept his existence a secret. It would be a long time coming, but he carefully plotted revenge. There would be only two Sith Lords at a time, a master and an apprentice, working in secret, planting the seeds for their eventual rise.

    --Star Wars Insider, issue 78; page 60
     
  21. DylanFett

    DylanFett Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Ok, I guess I was pretty wrong with that move.
     
  22. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Not necessarily. You gave an opinion, which may be different than others.
     
  23. Vincent Norris

    Vincent Norris Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 25, 2014
    I though that Sidious was following the rule of One instead and thought of himself as the one sith [or possibly DV] meaning that there could have been any number of younglings kept behind to become his assassins, so to me the killing is about as pointless as Yoda's lack of English skills
     
  24. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    That's after Palpatine's death. Kryat was the one who relied on that as a means of establishing the Sith Order under his rule, but as it turns out, it winds up biting him in the ass. Palpatine was following Bane's edict, which was have only two Sith. But they can use others as pawns which is what Ventress was.
     
  25. Vincent Norris

    Vincent Norris Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Perhaps wookiepedia http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_One_(Palpatine's_Doctrine) is wrong then, he does speak about "apprentice" and such, but Plageus [probably the wrong spelling] did allow him to take Maul while Palpatine was still under him, I have seen some conflict in the sources of the one sith and such though, so perhaps some experience from the wiser members would tell me which was the correct view, unless they run in parallel?