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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Anakin Skywalker MEGAthread - Don't talk to him about sand, it makes him uncomfortable

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Tonyg, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    I also appreciate Hayden clarifying his views on sand!!!

    At last!!!!!! I can't believe how long I waited to hear him comment on that epic net meme. [face_laugh]
     
  2. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I LOVED his interview, but it was way too short :(
    It's so great to see (and hear) so much appreciation for the guy, though. That and the fact that he was invited and actually showed up makes me hopeful for the future of Star Wars... ;)
     
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  3. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    I'd like to see Hayden go an hour with Charlie Rose.

    "Let's talk sand. Your character comes from a desert planet. Sand must irritate you."
    "What is it with your character and sand? Is sand the central mystery of Anakin Skywalker?"
    "Some people have called your character Sandakin Skywalker. Does it bother you?"
    "If George Lucas came to you tomorrow and said, 'I've got this idea for a movie involving sand.' Would you be interested?"


    Yes. Totally. Ha, well, no. Not so much the latter part, actually. I get what you mean, and yet...

    I'm just a prequel fan, through and through... ;)
     
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  4. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Hayden is so awkwardly like Anakin at the Celebration panel, I think it's so great he was there :)
     
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  5. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Hayden is so awkwardly like Anakin at the Celebration panel, I think it's so great he was there :)
     
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  6. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Well, well, what a miracle. I was away for a couple of days and now I see real appreciation of Anakin as character. And of Hayden, of course. And I'm glad.
    I think Darkslayer is right. Hayden indeed looked like Ani in the Celebration (at least in the interview I saw): a little awkward, but sympathetic, honest, interesting. He is much calmer than Anakin, of course, but there are moments when Anakin is relaxed: when he feels comfortable (as in the meadow scene or in the refugee ship).
    About the look: I think -apart from the obvious James Dean type of hero reference - that it was important for Anakin to be good looking. And for his relationship with Padme but for himself. His good look was one more essential thing that he lost as Vader. It wouldn't be so hard for him if he was ugly (to hide behind the mask, I mean). But in this case the loss is bigger.
    By the way, I don't think that Padme cared about his look so much for the simple reason that she instantly recognized him in the beginning of AOTC ad it wouldn't be possible if she didn't remember who Anakin really is, his new handsome young male look would 'blind' her, but it was all the opposite.
     
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  7. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    well since Kenobi was his master and she knew he was coming it probably wasn't a big assumption
     
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  8. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    She didn't have the time to think about it. She just saw him and recognized him. And is because she didn't forget him completely but all the opposite. My point is that Padme wasn't blinded by his looks as some fans insist to be.
     
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  9. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    well she was expecting Kenobi, she may have even been told his apprentice would be with him, she greeted Kenobi first. I don't know who else she would think it was.
     
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  10. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    I think you should watch the scene again. She was expecting Kenobi but nobody else. Anakin was the surprise for Padme. While tall enough Anakin succeeded to hide behind Kenobi's back because he was too confused to present himself openly to Padme and he was almost afraid if she remembers him. After all, after 10 years Padme could even forger that once Kenobi took Anakin as apprentice: if of course, she didn't care about Anakin. But it was all the opposite. Actually, this is very cute and underrated scene in AOTC.
     
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  11. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    i've seen it 25 times
     
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  12. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    LOL[face_laugh]
    Cryogenic although I wouldn't go as far as arguing that a jealousy/insecurity complex was the only reason that some fans disliked Christensen's portrayal of Anakin, I do think you make a fair point nevertheless.
    Look how some racially prejudiced people responded to the reveal of Finn, the 'Black Storm-trooper after that first TFA teaser appeared. Or even how club sexism reacted to Rogue One's central characters. "Two kick-ass female leads in as many movies, Star Wars is going down the drain!:_| " Jealousy and Insecurity at its finest.[face_laugh] (albeit for different reasons)
    [​IMG]
    I can't wait for their reactions in a few months when marketing for TLJ kicks off big time, and film is revealed to have not one, but four female main characters.[face_dancing]
    (Leia, Rey, Rose, and Laura Dern's character) This gonna be good![face_mischief]
     
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  13. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Definitely has shades of Anakin in the meadow, Anakin first re-meeting-up with Padme in her apartment, Anakin trying to impress Padme at the dinner table with fruit and tales of "aggressive negotiations", Anakin pouring his heart out to Padme at the fireplace, Anakin sweating in bed and looking right in fear that Padme heard him, Anakin......... you're right, he's Anakin!



    Ah, Tony! You put it well and very sweetly, of course. :)

    Well, in all fairness here, while you make a very good point (as always), I think she is a little blinded by his looks. "Ani? My goodness, you've grown!" Not to mention the way she gazes into his eyes right before they first kiss, her teasing him in the meadow about her first crush having "dark curly hair" and "dreamy eyes", her looking admiringly at Anakin's toned figure beneath that rather revealing shirt on Naboo after he paces away and exhales, and even the way she is sensually locking her eyes on his lips as they lean in to kiss on Geonosis before being pulled into the arena.




    Fixed. ;)



    No, I know. I was a little broad-brush. By the same measure, I agree that there was a lot of bigotry expressed toward Rey and Finn; but not all of it is necessarily cut from the same cloth. I think some people were picking up on a bit of an agenda from Disney, then mixing that in with their personal biases. Alas, I think some people's gross overreaction made it easier to dismiss others who were a bit milder in their disdain; and that this is also, alas, still going on. So, yeah, Hayden got some, then the new leads starting getting it; but intermixed, in their case, with a transforming social space rooted in fear, growing inequality, and identity politics. I might not share the same scale of upset, but I understand it on some level, nonetheless.


    The key, for me, is whether they're well-written, well-played characters or not. I must admit I am looking forward to the new characters you allude to there. Since they're still a complete mystery at this stage, and no-one really knows what the storyline of "The Last Jedi" actually is, I'm happy to potentially lose myself in the expanding mythology; provided, that is, I get something out of it, of course.
     
  14. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Cryogenic

    Hmm...While there were crude comments on the internet, most of those nonintellectual expressions were either downvoted, on youtube(which we all know is a cesspool anyways) or on some estranged fourms(sadly, some did rise and take the full picture).. Now, it is true that once Disney confirmed their viewpoint on Female diversity and Race, there was a rise in argumentation against Disney's intent. The extreme ones were minor, however they for some reason got all the attention. The ones who took time to be civil and give their own arguments were never heard of, only to be sent to the bottomless pit of digital code.

    Rather the bigotry for most, it was the questionable advertisement of "Race" and "Sex" that gave an eyebrow raise. I for one, I was one of those skeptics. I am of the African descent, and to hear Disney talk about how Race wasn't diverse before, was quite the demeaning statement. Completely disregarding Lucas's past work. The focus on the over-abundance Caucasians(I hate the term "White") can be refuted when looking at character like Mace(African) Temura(Native?) Panaka(African descent) Bail Organa(Italian? Native? Ahh...He isn't of a majority of singular colored people to end those examples lol(And I think the queen from ROTS and AOTC were Indian and Asian). Might I say, that is very diverse. ( One could possibly understand the argument of the whole female aspect of having a main character not done before(Similar to Luke and Anakin)..Buuuut there was a non-existent mention of Padme(who is arguably the main character and gets more screen time than the anticipated character and by adding the values of her time/Anakin's between TPM and AOTC, she has more time and establishment as a character than both Obi+1 and Anakin). I found that freakishly..odd...Praise strong female characters like Rey, Leia and Ashoka yet leave out the Statue Of Liberty...The container of all things "Republic" and "Center"(So this is how Liberty dies?).

    Though, I can see where they were getting at. I don't disagree with their intent of having another character who is of another sex being the main vocal point of perspective. I just don't agree with the way they went about it(WHERES PADME)

    Goodness! I only meant to comment to such a small degree on the subject, but it seems that my MYND had other things in......

    MIND(It's poetic revisions and repeats see? What a lovely structure!)

    "The oppression of the overtly, semi-lengthy, vigorous post shall never be recognized or spoken of! You, are banned"

    I didn't mean to derail the conversation of the threads intent, and by all means Tonyg do inform me if I should not continue to further use my "rambunctious" tongue. I realize that sometimes, my mouth can go on longer than what needs to be:p

    It's quite the delight to see such fans give him the credit he deserves(from my point of view of course;) )

    I was there those specific days of choice(I chose Saturday) there were crowds and lines just waiting for him. Out of everyone, it seemed that Hayden got the most, or possibly one of the most(even upholding the Great Ian, Billy Dee, Felicity Jones or Mark Hamil!).

    Now if only Lucas was there...But of course, what do you expect from a shy guy[face_laugh]

    Like what Cryo stated, I agree that Padme started to "scan" Hayden during the wondrous meadow scenes. Or the one before the arena(you know, where she initiated the kiss and stared into Anakin's, deep soulful, liquefying baby blue eyes.:p Anakin just didn't repel her gaze away form him). How could you not take a quick "look". He's a Jedi, passionate and boy oh boy, he's quite the hunk!

    Anakin: Don't look at me that way. It makes me uncomfortable.

    Padme:[face_blush]


    [​IMG]


    Ah...Well put. By going to the dark side, it cost him his handsome features, replacing it with a cold, scared and "burnt out" body. I do wonder...Did Vader even consider himself ugly after his deformations? Was there a reflective moment he ever had on his comments about his body? Well, there really doesn't need any explanations for that but I had my mynd in the gutter lately about his thoughts on his newfound physicality. I assume so. Vader never seemed confident about his body that he was in, and I am perfectly sure that he was subconsciously disgusted with how he turned out.

    If Vader ever went to a bar, it would probably be quite the struggle to find women who are attracted to Burned Midiclorians(I know Ashoka wasn't)!

    I like mine nice and fresh thank you very much. Some Jar on the side also...
     
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  15. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Aptly put. I didn't mean to downgrade or marginalize. I, myself, have said a fair bit (or hinted in that direction a few times) about Disney pursuing one kind of agenda or another. The opprobrium toward the most extreme of the comments -- the most hot-headed of the "Resistance" pilots -- was a convenient way to try and silence all people with misgivings and brow-beat them into shameful submission. Of course, many people, for various reasons, always like to believe a difficult topic has been "licked" ahead of time; as if cutting off the loudest "head" dispenses with the problem. "And you killed Count Dooku, and you rescued the Chancellor carrying me unconscious on your back."


    I'm not too keen on the terms "black" and "white" myself. We're not chess pieces. They're very easy, lazy, politically co-opted, constraining terms, in my opinion. And, sometimes, I guess I am even a little "colour blind". Obviously, I recognize the more striking (but still somewhat fatuous/illusory) "divide" of, ugh, black and white; and all the social, economic, and political issues therein. Though, even there, it isn't always so easy, since everything is (ultimately) entangled with everything else, and these are really just arbitrary descriptors (though some people would probably pitch a fit reading this). In the case of someone like Jimmy Smits, however, I just used to say: "It's Jimmy Smits". It was only later that I realized he is "technically" Hispanic (or Dutch-Hispanic). And then I was immediately like: "So what?" American or human being should so just fine. And I happen to have always thought he is absolutely perfect as Bail Organa; I like his broad-shouldered look, the dignified way he carries himself, the suggested hints of amusement or horror lurking just beneath the surface of the character. Yet Lucas was never shouting it from the rooftops: "We have an Hispanic actor playing Leia's father here!" He simply was and is. I suppose it's a bit like entering a "Jar Jar" state; when things are so natural, so spontaneous, that you are truly at the level of the "truly wonderful" realm of the child; and lame adult distinctions and divides no longer apply.

    Padme and Jar Jar -- both excluded from the Disney pantheon. The former by a kind of sinning by omission; the latter openly mocked by Abrams ("Jar Jar's bones in the desert") and shunned/denigrated by Kathleen Kennedy ("Jar Jar is not in this movie") to open relief and applause. This is the kind of desiccated, hollow, Death Star myth-machine that Disney have now built; and they shouldn't be too proud of this technological terror they've constructed. And that's really funny when you think about it; the shunning of Binks and Amidala. As these are the two sad/displaced beings that end up bridging the gap between two estranged cultures and help deal the Sith an early blow. The "idealized Earth" of Naboo is pulled from the brink by the racial unification of two characters that Disney, for all its overtones of diversity and inclusiveness, would rather people jeer at or forget about. How twisted. How inverted. How "Bizarro". Furthermore, being human (or Gungan) means being prone to fallacy and error; as well as being able to confer riches both because of and in spite of those fallacies and errors. So to deny the aesthetic reality of these characters, or any of the prequel characters, means thumbing one's nose -- and, if you're Disney, perpetuating the notion that other people should thumb their noses -- at the very core of what it means to be human. So much for Gene Roddenberry's parallel concept of "IDIC" ("Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations").

    BTW, I started that top paragraph with "Thanks for adding your voice". But that sounded terribly patronizing. Race screws up all our mental circuits.


    The same frequently happens with me. Discovering these other discussion portals along the way, however, is half the fun, I think. Jar Jar swimming underwater... :)
     
  16. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Disney admitting that they'd like to do better in terms of diversity should not be taken as demeaning ti whatever diversity was on display before.

    I'm sorry but if people feel the need to split hairs and defend past efforts rather than look forward to the possibilities that continually raising awareness, then they have to accept that you run the risk of being perceived in the same way as more obviously prejudiced and bigoted views which also a it disingenuously adopt a "wasn't broke, don't fix it" attitude.
     
  17. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Let‘s clarify this: Padme knows that Anakin is handsome boy. I think everybody that saw him, noticed that (remember the girls in the Coruscant bar). What I meant that she is not fixed on that fact. During the kiss scene: of course she looked him in the eyes (!) it is clear example of their courtly love because both of them feel uncomfortable even in the beginning of the scene. ;)
    I again would point out the fact that Vader had lost even that in OT and I don‘t think that for a handsome boy is easy to accept that he not that already but almost burned to death half man half machine.

    P.S. The racial “problem“ of SW is one of the most ridiculous arguments. First, in OT the Empire war machine is composed mostly by white middle aged men (you know, they are the bad guys) and in the Rebellion there is huge diversity of colored people and creatures because the Republic was that way as is shown clearly in PT.
     
  18. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Actually, it can be seen, first and foremost, as a cynical commercial ploy; even if there are sincere strains of thought enmeshed within.

    For instance, for all their talk of diversity and inclusiveness, they did a good job going with white "Force legacy" leads again (Rey, Kylo), blocking out a beautiful dark-skinned, Oscar-winning actress and filtering her performance into that of a lame granny-prune (and knock-off Yoda) character, shrinking down John Boyega's face on the Chinese poster (kowtowing to blatant prejudicial attitudes toward dark-skinned people in Communist China), divesting TFA (unlike former Star Wars saga films) of any sort of sexual tension or romantic promise (leading everyone to "ship" characters online instead), and even, the other week, at the TLJ panel at "Celebration", very quickly moving away from the possibility of Finn and Poe having a bromance with homoerotic undertones (John Boyega almost seems to go there for a second when he obliquely touches on their having more adventures together; but no direct acknowledgement is made of all the talk-back online since TFA came out).

    Obviously, Disney are always driven to do whatever is in the best interests of their bottom line, first and foremost. Sanitized, calibrated "progressiveness". A few basic hard truths are in order: White leads are still the "big sell" in Planet Disney; as well as heterosexuality (when they go with sex/romance) versus the far less commercial (even if increasingly less-risky) concept of homosexuality and other non-hetero expressions of human sexuality and kinship. And even their big push for "female" characters and writers apparently hits a wall when it comes to the critical concept of directors. All nine saga films will have been written and directed by men; and even the first few spin-offs are clearly going in the same "direction". Maybe men really are better than women at some things and at the "nuts and bolts" of Star Wars itself. Seems to be the message Disney are sending out at present.

    Moreover, since you appear keen to keep doing this, you bypassed everything else I just said (and Quantum/MIDI just said) about Disney, or Disney/Lucasfilm representatives, besmirching Jar Jar and excluding Padme entirely. Which throws a big monkey wrench in the notion that Disney are an august company that truly believes in proportional representation and that everyone has a worth in society (check how much they pay their wage-slaves working at their various parks; or Bob Iger's corporate silence over the overtly anti-LGBT, xenophobic pestilence of the current Trump administration). You're very naive, in my opinion, if you believe that Disney's alleged diversity drive is all it could be; or that everything they say and do aren't being done for some pretty self-serving purposes.



    This remark is just imbecilic and flat-out wrong. If you actually read our posts with any care or awareness whatsoever, you'd see that both Quantum/MIDI and I made remarks like the following:


    Dismissing critiques with nuance and ignominiously tarring everyone with the same dirty brush is a regressive tactic and shows you're only here to dogmatize and preach and make enemies out of people who make a reasonable attempt (usually) to mount their views with integrity and respect.

    In any case, since you appear to be trying, like many with an anti-PT axe to grind, to aggressively protect the new copyright holders and criminalize the discussion space, I'm done here. This is meant to be a positive thread to discuss Anakin, anyway. I will not continue to foul it up with critical sentiments that other people are apparently eager to round on and make simplistic judgements about.
     
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  19. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015

    Obviously, you missed the point.

    My main issue is that they, not in the slightest, did not mentioned one of the most wonderful female protagonist in film. Leia compared to Padme, she doesn't even stack up to her mother. Padme was shown to have done much more in effort both in emotion and physics.

    I presume that it is ROTS that might have destroyed her reputation. Or It's probably just ignored for some other reason, be it prequels or Disney just having an "amnesia" experience. I have no idea what is the reason.

    The focus on the over-abundance Caucasians(I hate the term "White") can be refuted when looking at character like Mace(African) Temura(Native?) Panaka(African descent) Bail Organa(Italian? Native? Ahh...He isn't of a majority of singular colored people to end those examples lol).

    And I didn't even get to the other character's racial backgrounds.

    Disney wants to move forward.

    Great, I also would agree to their decision.

    Disney doesn't adhere to Star War's past achievements.

    They had very little to say them and what the prequels introduced.

    Damn it...I think it's time to discontinue before this ends up being another "Disney Criticism" conversation(I need to make a thread for this).
     
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  20. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    But people have reacted in that way. Unnecessarily.

    Instead of lamenting their efforts to defend Lucas being misinterpreted, they ought to appreciate the inevitability of it.

    I'm just pointing out cause and effect.
     
  21. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Guys, you allowed me to tell when you are derailing the thread. Now is the time. Remember, the thread is about Ani. Let‘s stay focussed on him.
     
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  22. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    I knew I was about to derail the thread before I even finished writing a refutation. And yet I still posted it..Thinking that the possibility of "Back-ON Track-On" would be instant, as you can see,it almost made a chain reaction. Whoops. Ate the banana, threw the peel yet I wasn't watching and slipped on it.
    [face_monkey][face_coffee]

    Sadly, no banana Emoji. So Coffee would have to suffice.
    Ha! I was more serious to Mike on this matter than you were. I think I could've lightened up just a tad...[face_dunno]

    Ah ? Ani? Why Yes! Yes indeed I will continue to discuss him and gaze upon his eyes!

    Apologies. I've made sure to create a conversion of all that is Disney quite soon.

    [face_good_luck] +3
     
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  23. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
  24. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Tony has spoken! Yes, yes... to Tony, you listen. ;)


    Let me just "pounce" on that slightly:

    It's not just her looking him in the eyes there, but the rather enigmatic, lustful, deeply desirous -- or at least irresistibly curious -- look she has in her own eyes as that moment unfolds. Also, it feels like it is playing out (quite deliberately) in a sort of erotic slow-motion; as if Anakin's face were a flower petal about to fall and "kiss" the ground below; and the ground itself quivering with anticipation. Moreover, I don't think we can really overlook the fact that Padme wears a particularly sensual, revealing garment in that scene, giving Anakin ample opportunity to savour the smooth curves of her tight, warm, feline body. "Come and try me, Ani -- if you dare." Of course, sex and romance themselves are somewhat uncomfortable topics (they certainly don't obey rational or political boundaries), so there's actually something quite profound in having the lovers themselves be so awkward and nervous; a symbolic tip of the hat as a sort of foundation-rattling courtly love enters the "frame" of Star Wars for the first time. But yes, Anakin wants Padme to like him for who he is; and not just see him as "that little boy" she knew "on Tatooine" ("I don't like sand"); or a tender, prime cut of meat. I'm more, you know, he seems to be desperately saying; and let me prove it to you.
     
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  25. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Just wanted to throw in that both 3P0 and Watto recognize Ani.
     
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