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PT Anakin Skywalker not a true Jedi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by McThuggin2011, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. McThuggin2011

    McThuggin2011 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2017
    I was watching AOTC. The scene of the morning after having a nightmare about his mother, Anakin tells Padme that Jedi don't have nightmares. Previously, I had always interpreted this as Anakin dismissing Padme's concern (which it may be), but I wonder if it is a hidden message inserted by Lucas. Anakin readily admits he had a nightmare about his mother, and then later does some very non-Jedi things (killing sand people). I wonder if this was a subconscious admission by Anakin that he does not identify as a Jedi. He doesn't follow many of their rules involving love, marriage, and killing (sand people and Dooku). Furthermore, in ROTS, Anakin is never granted the rank of master, and is not trusted by the Jedi, with the exception of Obi-Wan. I think that George Lucas intended Anakin to be only the chosen one, not a Jedi or a Sith. This makes me rethink the idea that ROTJ's title does not refer to Anakin Skywalker, but Luke Skywalker. I also think that "The Last Jedi" is a reference to Luke only. I predict that whoever survives the new trilogy will not be Sith or Jedi, just a force user intended to find balance.
     
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  2. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Anakin wasn't exactly balanced. Until he returned to the light and sacrificed himself to save Luke. That's when he became a true Jedi.
    "Return of the Jedi" seems to me like a reference to the Jedi as a concept. Through the actions of Luke and Anakin, the Jedi return to a position of influence on the galaxy.

    As for "The Last Jedi",
    it has recently been revealed, through various official translations of the title, that it's "Jedi" in plural.
     
  3. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Lulu Mars Agreed

    McThuggin2011 I can see where you are coming from, but I think the 'Jedi don't have nightmares' line is simply acting-tough on Anakin's part. Notice Padme immediately calls him out on this, 'I heard you' (having the nightmare).

    I don't think the issue is so much that Anakin is not a true Jedi*, as much as he's simply not a very good Jedi, and knows this. He's also 19, and talking to Padme, who he
    a) has not seen for 10 years
    b) has a crush on, and
    c) is trying to impress

    Thus 'Jedi don't have nightmares' is, I think, simply an attempt by an insecure young man to appear more mature and confident than he really is.

    *Though you could defiantly argue that he's fairly apathetic to his duties as a member of the Order by ROTS
     
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  4. Valryk

    Valryk Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2016
    If we go by the new canon which includes TCW then he was a pretty good Jedi for a while until he lost his way near the beginning of EP3. He was lucky with his master as well hence, imo, I never considered most of the Prequel Jedi to be TRUE Jedi but rather politician monks.
     
  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    The Jedi of the PT era are just as much Jedi as anything else. The Jedi Order has always been involved in the Republic, no more and no less. Their methods are still in play with Luke, he is a byproduct of that training and he didn't abandon it because he was creating a new Jedi Order. Had he succeeded, his Jedi would be much like the old Order.
     
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  6. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    Agreed.

    Anakin is kind of like a sports star who's super talented but undisciplined. When he's on the right track he's as good as there is. You just never know when he's going to lose his mind and do something stupid, especially at a critical time.
     
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  7. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Agreed. Anakin has a lot of raw talent, he is very powerful in the force, a prodigy infact. But he lacks the mental discipline that would make him truly a great Jedi (somebody like Yoda, Qui-gon Jinn, or hopefully Luke Skywalker in TLJ[face_praying]), not just a great warrior/war hero.
     
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  8. DBPirate

    DBPirate Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2015
    I'm pretty sure that the nightmares comment was simply made to get Padmé to drop the subject. Ahsoka also has these in TCW. And why can't ROTJ apply to both Anakin and the Order as a whole? That's how I interpreted it.
     
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  9. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    When Anakin says jedi don't have nightmares, he means that he's seen a vision of the future. That it was real and not a dream/nightmare.
     
  10. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    No, he was clearly trying to act tough around her. It's no different than a tough macho man saying, "I'm not crying" to a woman despite tears clearly being visible in his eyes.
     
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  11. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    It refers or can refer to Anakin, Luke, the Jedi Order, the Jedi way etc.

    Luke specifically says "I am a Jedi like my father before me."

    And of course there is Anakin in Jedi garb like Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end of the movie.
     
  12. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    I wasn't excluding Anakin acting tough. He could also be telling the truth, from a certain point of view. It would be a bit daft for Anakin to lie to Padme about Jedi supposedly not having nightmares.
     
  13. SavedByChristAlone

    SavedByChristAlone Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2017
    I don't think Anakin was trying to 'act tough' so much as put a brave face on things. But yes, I do think he never really identified as a Jedi. I think a Jedi was always something he wanted to be (genuinely wanted to be; I think he liked the essence of their ideals, if not the details), but didn't quite attain properly . . . until he decided 'Never mind my life; I'm saving my son if it kills me!'
     
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  14. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Martoto77 I think it is clear that Anakin is attempting to 'put a brave face' on things, since Padme immediately calls his comment out as BS. Though of course you do correctly point out that he is technically telling the truth since his dreams are also visions. I think he is acting tough, since he openly discusses his nightmares with Obi-wan in earlier scene on Coruscant.
     
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  15. Anakin.Skywalker

    Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2016
    *strangles anyone who says Anakin wasn't a Jedi*

    :p

    I think he was, at one point. It didn't fit him that well, but he was a Jedi.
     
  16. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    It's a bit thin if Padme acquiesces to Anakin just on the basis of a bad dream (as we know them). Which she doesn't. She realises that it's something more than that.
     
  17. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    The Mortis Arc (from TCW season 3) points to Anakin was more than just Jedi or Sith. His power potential was akin to The Ones.
     
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  18. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    You had the golden opportunity to do the Force Choke and say, "I find your lack of faith...disturbing." :D
     
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  19. Anakin.Skywalker

    Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2016
    I leave that for my sock, Darth.Vader :p
     
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  20. Rickleo123

    Rickleo123 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2016

    The Father tells Anakin "I am neither Sith nor Jedi, I am much more, and so are you." The Father is the most powerful canon force sensitive according to Leland Chee. https://twitter.com/juniorlax16/status/352641008728670208



    He was basically a Force God and if Anakin had reached his full potential he was to replace him as a cosmic force entity. Anakin is as much beyond a jedi as a human is to an ant.
     
  21. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Oh my. Not that Mortis Arc! I hope that gets retconed as a dream or a Force Vision soon.

    I think the real question should not be if Anakin was a true Jedi but if he is in fact the TRUE Chosen One.

    Did he destroy the Sith? Yes.

    Was the Force balanced? Well if the Ballance lasted a mere 23 years after the death of Palpatine, ( 23 ABE was when Luke's Jedi were slaughtered) that's not much of thing to boast about considering how far back the Jedi go.
     
  22. Sanguinius

    Sanguinius Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2017

    Anakin is the prime example of exactly what was wrong with the Jedi Order during the time of the PT; arrogant, self righteous and a slave to the will of the republic. I don't think it was only him who we could identify as not a "true" Jedi. The entire order suffered from these issues to the point of almost being a parody of what they're supposed to be, Yoda alludes to this in AOTC. Anakin was just a step further into their issue. I also find, however ironic, that he was the pill the Jedi needed to change course with Luke's order, new EU or not. Actually while I type this I'm just coming to the realization that the Jedi Order in the PT reflected the health of the Republic. Pretty neat since both were a far cry from what they were in their prime.