Anakin slaughtering the Tusken Raiders - How wrong was it?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by son of lucas, May 8, 2003.

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  1. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    DrEvazan: ...i am able to see that what Anakin did to the innocent Tusken women and children was an atrocity far worse than what was done to his mother.

    How so? They got off a lot easier than she did--and she had not done anything to them first.

    Were they tied to a pole and beaten to death slowly? No.

    ...would they be justified if they killed Anakin and then went on to slaughter the rest of a village of humans, women and children included, just because they were angry?

    Only if Anakin, without any prior provocation, tied one of the women to a pole and slowly tortured her to death for kicks.

    The_Abstract: You must keep missing the part where he regrets his actions.

    He does keep missing that part.
  2. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "You must keep missing the part where he regrets his actions."

    Anakin didn't exactly give the Tusken's a chance to regret their actions. ;)
  3. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    The Tuskens had an entire month to regret their actions. They chose to continue torturing Shmi to death instead.
  4. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Anakin could have stopped chopping off Tusken heads at any minute too. The difference is that another group of Tusken's didn't come by and kill him when he was in the middle of committing the act.
  5. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    When have the Tuskens shown any remorse for anything.


    Obi-Wan certainly has no sympathy for them.

    George Lucas as a writer and director has shown no sympathy, except through Anakin's remorse.

    He knows he messed up. Why beat a dead horse?

    And if any Tuskens survived that slaughter you can bet they'd be hightailing to the next camp to encite another vengeful raid.



  6. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Anakin didn't spend an entire month chopping off Tusken heads.

    Why are you guys defending the brutal torture of an innocent woman and yet you're ready to canonize some Tusken women who watched her get tortured?

    He knows he messed up. Why beat a dead horse?

    Because the dead horse's name is Anakin and they enjoy beating him just like the Tuskens enjoyed beating his mother. *rolls eyes*

    And if any Tuskens survived that slaughter you can bet they'd be hightailing to the next camp to encite another vengeful raid.

    No kidding--and they would get defended on this thread for doing it.

    I am so disgusted.
  7. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "And if any Tuskens survived that slaughter you can bet they'd be hightailing to the next camp to encite another vengeful raid."

    And rightfully so, in my opinion.

    Edit:
    "Why are you guys defending the brutal torture of an innocent woman and yet you're ready to canonize some Tusken women who watched her get tortured?"

    We're not "defending the brutal torture". We're just saying that Anakin's brutal killings were just as bad. We're also saying that while Shmi may have been innocent, it's highly likely that many of the other humans aren't as innocent. Yes, it's wrong to kill one person over someone else's deeds, which is why Anakin's acts were wrong.
  8. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    I rest my case.

    So why was it not OK for Anakin to exact revenge? Don't you think that's a little biased?
  9. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "So why was it not OK for Anakin to exact revenge? Don't you think that's a little biased?"

    Because, according to some people, Tuskens are just stupid beasts, and don't have human qualities. According to these people, the Tuskens shouldn't know any better. Anakin should know better.

    I personally see a difference between torturing one person and killing an entire community. Yes, both are wrong and tragic, but I feel that killing an entire community is far worse.
  10. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    We're not "defending the brutal torture". We're just saying that Anakin's brutal killings were just as bad.

    From what I've read here, everyone's saying they're worse. I have read very few posts about how evil and monstrous the Tuskens are when they were completely unprovoked when they took Shmi and, if you believe the novelization, derived great pleasure from beating her to death with their gaffee sticks. Yet people are beyond eager to condemn Anakin to the depths of eternal hellfire because he took revenge on them for what they did.


    We're also saying that while Shmi may have been innocent, it's highly likely that many of the other humans aren't as innocent. Yes, it's wrong to kill one person over someone else's deeds, which is why Anakin's acts were wrong.

    1. So condemn the Tuskens instead of upholding them as innocent.

    2. At least Shmi wasn't watching anyone get tortured to death and doing nothing about it.

    Because, according to some people, Tuskens are just stupid beasts, and don't have human qualities. According to these people, the Tuskens shouldn't know any better. Anakin should know better.

    I don't buy that for a second. The Tuskens walked upright, built tents, made tools, built fires, made clothes. They weren't stupid. They knew exactly what they were doing, and what they did was far more cold and calculated than what Anakin did.
  11. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    Another point...we've never seen any humans attack any Tuskens out of sheer whim.

    Cliegg got farmers together to go rescue his wife....and 20+ died for their resolve. He may dislike them but he has good reason too. But he never expressed any intention to exact any revenge. He just wanted Shmi back.

    They're called Tusken Raiders not the Tusken Welcome Committee. Everything we've seen them do has the earmarks of aggression.


    Another psychological point about Anakin, which is detailed in more depth in the novel, is the fact that the Force has a huge impact on his psyche. He has not matured emotionally enough to handle the power that is channeled through him. His dreams of Shmi are very vivid, even though he is not supposed to be able to see the future. During the slaughter he can see the Force growing around him, certainly almost a mystical experience, though one of foreboding and death. It seems he tapped into a power that completely overwhelmed him, and his rage at that moment completely placated the emptiness he felt after the loss of his mother.


    To make a movie analogy I liken his moment of mystical realization to Superman's decision to turn back time on Earth, after the supposed death of Lois Lane. Here is the paramount of justice and good on Earth using his power to bend time to his will. Hardly a noble, selfless act. Yes, it did allow him to save Lois, but you can't believe it was completely altruistic.

  12. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    They're called Tusken Raiders not the Tusken Welcome Committee.

    [face_laugh]

    They're not called the "Tusken Diocese" or the "Saintly Tusken Church Leaders" either. ;)
  13. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Well, let me restate what I think.

    Some Tuskens tortured Shmi.

    The Tuskens who tortured her were evil.

    Anakin killed every single Tusken in the entire village; all the men, all the women and all the children.

    Anakin is a despicable human being, and wretched excuse for a Jedi.

    Padme knowingly marries a guy who slaughters children. She is pathetic. I'm so glad Luke and Leia were adopted.

    Kyp Durron? Mara Jade? I'm so glad I don't read EU.
  14. Harabec Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2001
    star 4
    People are actually condemning Anakin and expressing sympathy for the Tuskens? Come on, they kidnapped and tortured his mother (to death) for a month and killed more or less everyone who tried to rescue her. He let his emotions get the best of him and he avenged her.

    The fact that Anakin later expressed remorse for losing control shows that he was a better person than the Tuskens, at least at that point in life. If the Tuskens had felt even the slightest bit of regret they wouldn't have kept Shmi tied up in the middle of the desert for a month.

    The Tuskens got what was coming to them.
  15. Tiershon_Fett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    I think the point of the movie is that violence begets violence.

    The chain of violence was broken when Luke stood there and said he would rather die, than be another link in the Skywalker chain that died by the sword. The horrible streak started when Shmi's family was raided and killed, and she enslaved. Since Anakin was too close to the consequence of that tradgedy, (being a slave himself) he couldn't step away from the chain. He was too enmeshed in the "kill or be killed" mentalty that was neccessary for him to adopt in order to survive such a humiliating, and painful existance. Sadly, he didn't evolve much at his core, so even though he adopted Jedi ways, and heard what Obi-wan taught him, he still didn't believe it.

    His beliefs are his undoing, and his twisted sense of loyalty. He was too angry, or frustrated to recognize the manipulation that some people had wrought over him. Mainly Palpatine; but Anakin had been in a master/apprentice relationship since birth. He didn't know another way.
    Shmi even did. Her early childhood was normal. With Anakin, from the moment he could comprehend language he understood that he was just a thing. Since you form all your morals by five, he was really doomed to an unhappy life from the start.

    At his core, Anakin is a broken person, a lost soul.
    "Normal" is the commonality of experience, but he never had any of those experiences. He is like a little rich poor boy. He lives at the height of his galaxy's civilization, but doesn't know how to go grocery shopping, nor does he associate with ordinary people. He lacks the wisdom that comes from doing for yourself. Obi-wan is on him every second of everyday. His view of the world is all masters or slaves. Think about it. He is a servant, despite his staggering abilities, he gets ordered around by some girl. He starts to want to be a master (Now, I am the master), yet he seems to think little of himself, and keeps wanting to prove himself more and more. He is reckless, because his life means nothing to him. His sense of worth comes from what he doesn't have. Namely money and status. How is he so different from anyone else? He wants to matter. He feels, as a Jedi, he let Shmi die, because was weak. He starts looking for other avenues to protect what little he has left. Palpatine will facilitate this. It's all symtomatic of what he is becoming.
    He'll just keep going, until there is nothing left, because he will never stop feeling threatened, and in turn resentful. He will continue this pattern of hatred, fear, anger, and fury until he dies.

    Even though Obi-wan was an advocate for Anakin, Anakin never felt as though he belonged or felt welcome. He never really was, either. Of course, he could sense this. He isn't stupid. In fact he has far more ability than even Obi-wan or the council realizes.
    Shmi was his last dwindling link with a sense of home, and when she died, he had nothing left. Of course he was disproportionately livid.


    Anakin killed every single Tusken in the entire village; all the men, all the women and all the children.

    No. In the book, which really goes into detail, he had all the men coming after him. he made his famous "force wall" and they crashed into it. Then he killed the men one by one, easily. In his rage and fury, he was infused with darkside energy.
    All the women and kids went into one tent and hid, and in a moment consumed by the dark side of the force, he rolled an enormous boulder off the top of the cliff, and it landed on top of the hutt, crushing all inside. And when it happened, he stopped cold, and was horrified. After that, he looked around and everyone was dad, and he was in awe, because it didn't feel like he did it. It was his first lurch to the darkside.
  16. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    *applauds Harabec*

    JenX: So the Tuskens are merely "evil" for slowly torturing an innocent woman to death, but Anakin is a "despicable human being and a wretched excuse for a Jedi" for taking revenge? What? And you even insult Padme?

    Methinks there's a bias here--a huge bias.

    I guess I'm "pathetic" too for defending him, huh? Or for saying that in Padme's place, I would act no differently?
  17. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    JenX: So the Tuskens are "evil" for slowly torturing an innocent woman to death, but Anakin is a "despicable human being and a wretched excuse for a Jedi" for taking revenge?

    No. I'll say it again. Anakin is a despicable human being, and wretched excuse for a Jedi because he slaughtered an enitre village of men, women and children

    It's not the fact that he took revenge, it's the form his revenge took which make him despicable.

    And you even insult Padme?

    Hey, she knowingly married a child slaughterer. I think there are a lot worse things she could be called.

  18. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Well of course we justdon't know what the history of the conflict between the farmers and the Tuskens is cos George hasn't spelt it out.
    But I think we can assume it's similar to most other conflicts - 2 groups of peoples in conflict over the land.
    Some are saying the Tuskens behavior is inexcusable , but we don't know what they've been through. What if the Human farmers have been systematically pushing the Tuskens out of their land, killing the Tuskens, killing their women and children? If you can understand Anakin's vengeful attack why not understand the Tuskens doing the same?

    What Anakin did was wrong and more so because he has great powers and has been trained by the Jedi to use those powers to a high degree, it reflects on them.

    What if the Tuskens have a representative in the Senate, what if they can show that a Jedi slaughtered their people? What would this do to public opinion of the Jedi?
    The public need to trust the Jedi, if they can't they may get paranoid and there'd be a situation similar to the X-Men, the government could use this as a reason to get rid of the Jedi.

    Hey, that's not bad, I just thought of that as I wrote it. has anyone else said this?

    g
  19. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Anakin is a despicable human being, and wretched excuse for a Jedi because he slaughtered an enitre village of men, women and children

    In your, as usual, incredibly biased and hateful post (and the hate appears to be directed at me, and I don't appreciate it), you still did not address why you merely refer to the Tuskens as "evil" after they slowly, meticulously, brutally, tortured an innocent woman to death--and ENJOYED IT--yet her son decapitates them with a lightsaber, the ones who either participated in the torture or watched it happen, and he gets called a "despicable human being and a pathetic excuse for a Jedi".

    He slaughtered an entire village of pathetic excuses for monsters who tortured his mother to death. He didn't slaughter an entire village of cute little Ewoks.
  20. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    No. I'll say it again. Anakin is a despicable human being, and wretched excuse for a Jedi because he slaughtered an enitre village of men, women and children

    JenX maybe you can answer this you can to anakin_girl, and you to YodaJeff.

    Let's say instead of Tuskens Anakin killed a group of Saiyan's. (Note: For those who don't know Saiyan's are form a show called DragonBallZ). Any ways he killed not only the men but the women and children to. For he just found his mother dead (Note: The Saiyan's are cold bloody killers and have done things that are far worse then what Anakin did). Would you still condemned him for killing a whole race of cold bloody killers. (Note: The women and children in the Saiyan race even kill people for no reason I might add). Not only would Anakin be doing a good thing by getting ready of the whole Saiyan race he would be saving many people. I mean to bad the Saiyan's are all dead. Well maybe if they had not killed all those other peopel and kidnapped a woman and tortured her they would not be dead.
  21. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    I guess I'm "pathetic" too for defending him, huh? Or for saying that in Padme's place, I would act no differently?

    anakin_girl, I'm talking about Padme and Anakin, not you. So you guessed wrong.
  22. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah, it's easy to bash fictional characters, isn't it? Rather than think of the lesson we could learn here or what we might do in their place?
  23. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "No kidding--and they would get defended on this thread for doing it.

    I am so disgusted."

    yet you defend the mass slaughter of innocent women and children. you say you can understand why he did it. talk about disgusting.

    i have yet to defend the Tuskens who slew Shmi, in fact i dont see much of this defense of the Tuskens that you seem to be so preoccupied with.

    this is how i feel: the Tuskens who killed Shmi were wrong. Anakin murdering innocent women and children was ten times as wrong. he knows better yet killed them anyway.
  24. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    What makes you think the Tuskens didn't know better?

    If you were a Tusken woman, would you watch an innocent person be brutally tortured by your clansmen over a period of a month?

    i have yet to defend the Tuskens who slew Shmi, in fact i dont see much of this defense of the Tuskens that you seem to be so preoccupied with.

    In your "They didn't know any better" posts, you certainly seem to be defending them.
  25. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Note: To every one the whole answer to looking at this is on my post above. Put in the place of the Tusken a race of people that do nothing but kill and hurt others. Like the Tuskens. Then have Anakin kill them.

    I ask who is more wrong and I'm using Saiyan's here:

    Anakin who just got ready of a whole race who kill people for no reason and enjoy doing it by the way.

    Or Anakin who just saved many people for this race of people.
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