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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Characters Anakin/Vader Characterization - Anakin in the New Clone Wars

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by rhonderoo, Sep 10, 2004.

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  1. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2004
    I realize that Yoda was referring to Padawans. I just think it's unlikely that ANakin would have ignited his saber in the chamber with the younglings and then called in the troopers to do the deed. I think Anakin felt that he HAD to do this, the most horrific act of betrayal possible, to seal his fate as a Sith. I truly feel that he killed the younglings, and I think that scene is supposed to convey that to us. We're given no indicatation that the troopers killed them, and I think if they had we would have been shown something to indicate that. Even Obi-Wan says that Anakin "killed younglings." He doesn't say he killed Padawans.
     
  2. Jedi Trace

    Jedi Trace Former RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Dec 15, 1999
    Roo and I talked about this topic a lot before we wrote ?Circle of Light? and we decided to take the route of having Luke keep Vader-turned-Anakin?s survival a secret after ROTJ. Anakin/Vader just didn?t strike us as the kind of guy who would submit to anything but the Force for judgment, and Luke certainly wouldn?t hand him over for imprisonment. But that was just our take. And, fangirls that we are, we got him fixed up and handsome to eventually enjoy his children and grandchildren. ;)

    ?Gods of Dark and Light" by Darth_Marrs is one of my favorite recent portrayals of a redeemed Anakin. He was healed, reinstated in his military role, a pillar of strength for the Jedi, and even found a special lady who loved him in spite of his faults. [face_love]

    I also like ROTJ Infinities where Vader turned and then joined the Rebellion in white armor. :cool:




     
  3. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 7, 2002
    Well, we got him fixed up to the extent that he could be fixed up. We thought that he probably couldn't regrow hair and scarring and the need for oxygen would still be there. As much as I'd like a hot Anakin in redemption, I think he would go back to a Qui-Gon look. :p


    I agree with Traci that Vader probably wouldn't go through a War Crimes trial, and hiding would have been the course of action he'd take, even though The Pentinent is a favorite of mine. In that, he's a clone, though, so at 17 or whatever he is, he might have to.

    In actuality, it may be why instead of getting Luke's saber from the ground and slicing Palpatine in half, he went for him. Making sure to get himself in the process. Two Sith gone and nothing left for the galaxy to do but move on.

    I always go back to the reality of HOW Luke and Leia both reacted to hearing they were his children when trying to write them and a still living Anakin. Luke took the news WAY worse than Leia did. ;) But it was him that figured out the way to save the galaxy was through redeeming Vader rather than killing him. (This is why I absolutely love Luke) Leia simply said, "Somehow I've always known." I think she's talking about everything about her and where she falls into place, and it's a reference to her Force connection.
     
  4. Alley_Skywalker

    Alley_Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 27, 2005
    Younglings is a DFFA word for children -- no age indication. So technically it could have been Junior padawans.




    Gah, I just plot bunnied myself.
     
  5. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2004
    But the use of the word, coupled with that scene, indicates to me at least that Anakin was responsible for the death of those crechelings in the chamber. There was no reason to show Anakin igniting his saber if he was not the one responsible for their deaths. If the troopers had killed them, it would have been just as dramatic to show the troopers lifting their weapons to fire on the little ones and show Anakin lift his saber against a Padawan. I really don't think there is any doubt that Anakin was responsible for killing the younger children.
     
  6. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 7, 2002
    How about a redeemed Anakin? How do you guys feel about those? [face_batting]
     
  7. CrazyAni

    CrazyAni Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 23, 2006
    I'm someone who loves happy endings, so my ideal redeemed Anakin would retain his sense of humour, be in control of his anger and passion, and be a good father. He would be more mature, calmer and maybe less reckless.

    Of course, time spent in the Dark Side would leave scars on his persona - he would be more aware of his own power and potential, he would brood more, he would retreat into himself to some degree.

    I'd love to see him pick up his old life again, which means that he would continue being a Jedi Knight, he would still be married to Padme and he would get the chance to raise the twins. Death sentence or life sentence would be a plausible alternitave to the 'happy life', and, doubtless, it'd be an honourable way out. But... I, as a fan, wouldn't prefer that option.

    As for the above question, I believe that it was Anakin, not Vader who had deliberately killed the younglings. This decision was made in cold blood, with an intention to commit himself to the Dark Side. IMO, it was the turning point of Anakin's becoming Vader. Obi-Wan's blade and lava finished the shop, and the ultimate 'postscript' was Sidious' lie.
     
  8. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2004
    Redeemed Anakin is mature, still a bit reckless but certainly has a better handle on his power than he did when he was younger. He has learned that sometimes we lose those we love and we must endure it.

    He's a bit like Obi-Wan, but with some of Qui-Gon's rebellious spirit. And he's very handsome of course! :p
     
  9. Jedi Trace

    Jedi Trace Former RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Dec 15, 1999
    You say that like it's a bad thing. :p

    Qui-Gon is hawt! =P~:*


    ....erm, back to the thread...[face_blush]
     
  10. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Mar 1, 2002
    I agree. It was something that Padme would never forgive him for and it was central to his fall. If he could kill a kid that looked like he had when he was younger, there was nothing left.


    As for redeemed Anakin, I'm of the opinion that he should not be handsome and live happily ever after. Scarred, crippled and grieving, likely punished in some way including solitary or a prison planet. He should have to pay for his crimes but not forever. I could picture him getting out of prison after 10-20 years and play with his grandkids. But also I'd picture Luke visiting him on a regular basis and, when Leia came to terms with her heritage, her as well.
     
  11. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2004
    Completely agree that the killing of the children was the point of no return. :_|

    Realistically, yes, Anakin would have to bear the scars, both physical and emotional, of what he had done. He couldn't just walk away from all of it without paying some sort of price. So while I kid about him being hot, to be honest, I prefer the idea of Anakin, broken, humbled, scarred, and remorseful.
     
  12. CrazyAni

    CrazyAni Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 23, 2006
    That's a reasonable way out. Rotting in prison, ugly and crippled both spiritually and physically would serve him right. That way, he would fully embrace his pain and realise how much evil he had brought to the world.

    However, as much as the sadist side in me likes this dark option, I believe that everyone deserves a second chance. Hot or not hot, that's not relevant. I really think that it should be Anakin who should try to heal the scars of war. He should reveal himself as former Vader, he should bear the public's contempt and hatred. He should face the people he'd hurt.
     
  13. Jedi Trace

    Jedi Trace Former RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Dec 15, 1999
    Oh, I think he would definitely be remorseful and would struggle with inner demons forever. But, he had already hated himself for 20 years in the suit and I imagine he would try to work past grief and pain if given a second chance.

    While I?m not saying it wouldn?t happen, former Imperials being brought up on charges is not something you really see in the EU. People like Han, Mara, Tycho, and Pellaeon were not charged with war crimes. Jedi-turned-Dark-turned-Jedi again like Quinlan Vos, Kam Solusar, and Kyp Durron were never required to make reparations. (I realize, of course, that Vader is WAY out of their leagues, so I mention them as a precedent only.) In the Infinities version of ROTJ, former-Vader?s service to the Alliance was his ?penance,? even though it was voluntary. I think that was pretty much how the NR operated.

    And, given that races like the Noghri revered Vader ? he did do some good things in the Emperor?s service ? I don?t think the entire galaxy would have automatically turned against him. The NR did not sign a peace treaty with the Empire/come into full power until 15 years after ROTJ and many of Vader?s troops and officers were fiercely loyal to him for his innate fairness and for consistently fighting with them in the trenches.



     
  14. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2004
    Good point, Trace. Maybe I want him all broken and beaten so I can comfort him. ;) Exploring the idea of a redeemed Vader who survives is one of my favorite "What Ifs?" :D
     
  15. ratna

    ratna Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2007
    Speaking of archetypes, has anyone looked into parallels between Anakin/Vader and the Parsifal/Fisher King figure of Arthurian myth cycles?

    I've noticed that a lot of fan fiction intimates (or explicitly states) that, as Vader, Anakin has lost his physical manhood. Interesting consensus, given that it's not explicit in the original scripting ...

    The wound to the generative capacity, as symbolized either by direct wound to the generative organ or by wound to the leg, is the hallmark of the Fisher King archetype. Vader's isolation from human contact and life, owing to being encased in the suit, seems also to closely parallel the Fisher King's plight of each night witnessing the Procession of the Grail, but being unable to partake of the Feast and the Grail's gift of grace.

    I agree with everyone who has praised the embodiment that is within this character. I myself find Anakin/Vader the most compelling of all the Star Wars characters. His fall in ROTS, and the final battle on Mustafar, left me shaking. I've read many unflattering criticisms of Lucas' dialogue/characterizations, but I can't agree. I feel that there is something universal in the character that infuses and shines through, irregardless of the writing.

    What does a well-written redeemed Anakin look like? ... I think he looks just as he was in the saga. He is the hero who journeys from the light to the dark to the light again. This is how he brought balance to the Force. By truly falling, not almost, and then catching himself just in time. The true fall is what constitutes tragedy. And only by truly falling, and then returning, can one be able to walk in both worlds (or, as Campbell puts it, to be master of both worlds). I think that this is what is meant by the Prophesy of the Chosen One bringing balance to the Force. Lucas's original writing and directing leave the character appropriately, archetypically "lightly sketched in". This allows the hearer/viewer/reader to flesh out the human dimensions in accord with his/her own inner reception of the archetype .... or perhaps I can say of the Force.

    P.S. I am new to this site. I saw and loved the original trilogy when it first came out. Have enjoyed discovering episodes I-III with my children. Am totally blown away by the caliber of fanfiction that is coming forth. Very cool.
     
  16. ratna

    ratna Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2007
    ok, so it looks like this far along the thread, no one was speaking of archetypes. sorry for the non-sequitur. i was trying to post to stuff i read a lot earlier on in the thread.

    to respond to the recent posts, yeah, i would love to see anakin older, wiser, and able to reconnect with all that he had once loved. i'm a softie.

     
  17. LadyZ

    LadyZ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2000
    Welcome ratna! :) Don't worry, there was nothing wrong with your post - it's the perfect place to discuss him! You cannot be too off topic here - if it's about him, of course ;)

    Back to the topic now...

    I have read awesome fanfics both with scarred and healed Anakin/Vader. Generali I prefer when he is not healed. He made decisions, he sinned - it should have some consequencies even if he is forgiven - in this live :). I don't mind if he is healed -but it's a slow process, and he has to struggle, deal with external and internal demons (in one word I love good angst :D ).
    BUT! One of my all time favorite fanfic is Negotiations with Destiny . Here in his second scene he is healed - but I don't mind it. Maybe because he keeps on struggling with his past - or maybe because I can't help loving to imagine a naked and healed Lord Vader on the bridge of the Executor :D .

    Anyway, my main problem is with the redeemed Vader fanfics when a healing and the erasing of his past is simultanious. I think with ROTJ Lucas tried to show us - among other things - that he could commit terrible crimes without the mask and the suit...
     
  18. ReckaRyujinn

    ReckaRyujinn Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Sorry for just jumping in here but, how about a story of what would have happened if at the end of ROTJ Vader/Anakin (he kinda shifts at this point) had killed the Emperor and survived?! how would this effect the universe? how would it effect Luke and Leia. would he try and help the Rebellion, or would he go into seclusion thinking nobody could forgive him?

    sorry again for jumping in.

    I am new BTW. :D
     
  19. geo3

    geo3 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Fascinating topic! I was going to jump in and ramble on until I read this:

    Word for word, I couldn't agree with you more! Wow! Hi and welcome, and what are you doing inside my head? :D

    A while back a reader posted this on one of my stories:

    ...there can be no redemption without a fall, no good without evil. Anakin's destiny was to transform the evil in him into something good so that he could act in a "right way." One can only transform that which one knows, and one can only know that which one owns (paraphrasing Goethe . . .). If this last sentence is true, then Anakin had to become evil. Without evil he would not have redeemed the Force.

    It's an idea that has really stuck with me, and colored the way I think about Anakin's fall ever since. As ratna put it, a redeemed Anakin would be the same... only (and this is the tiny bit I'm adding) he'd be a little further along his path, with all that entails: older, wiser; battered inwardly if not outwardly. I'd like to think he'd have a purposefulness and a breadth of vision that he didn't have before. But he'd still be Anakin :p
     
  20. ratna

    ratna Jedi Knight star 4

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    Mar 1, 2007
    First of all thank you LadyZ and geo3 for being so welcoming. Tho I'm fellow newbie, let me also extend the same to ReckaRyujinn.

    Negotiations with Destiny was definitely cool. I just recently read a fanfic in the archives, from Aug 2006 I think, by agentj: "Keep Falling Down" (sorry I don't know how to link to it yet). The healing occurs after life as opposed to during, but very powerful, and, I think, hit at the nexus of what caused Anakin to fall in the first place.

    ...

    "That I may rise, and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
    Yor Force to break, blow, burn and make me new."
    ---------John Donne, Holy Sonnet XIV

    yup.

    ....


    What would the universe look like if Anakin had caught himself just in time, killed Palpatine, and survived? I don't know, but I think there would still be need for healing. And would the remaining Jedi trust or forgive Anakin? Would he and Padme have to flee to a secret place to protect their children? Would there be all out civil war and chaos? Would that be the arena for Anakin and his children in a very alternate EPs IV, V, VI? Looks like the bunnies are jumping out all over the place!

     
  21. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Time to up this baby. We cannot have a SW stamp without Darth Vader on it! Go vote!

    :p
     
  22. brodiew

    brodiew Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Redemption is all well and good. I like the idea. But, if Anakin survives, there has to be consequewnces. I don't imagine that a mass murderer that helpd subjugate the galaxy would be forgiven so easily.

    Lets take the V-Tech incident, for example. Very Jedi Temple if you ask me. The perpetrator is dead. Where does one point his/her greif or outrage? Not hate.

    If Anakin survives, he would need to be punished, if not executed. Do not his actions demand a response?

     
  23. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2004
    Challenge, Challenge


    The lazy, hazy days of summer are almost upon us. Okay, we have to get through spring first, but we thought it might be time for a new challenge. We couldn?t make up our minds, so we?re presenting the opportunity for two different challenges.

    Challenge One

    Write a drabble, or a series of drabbles about our favorite Sith Lord. We don?t mean Dooku either! :p

    Challenge Two

    Take one of the following quotes and write a vignette based on that quote. At least 1,000 words, but other than that, you?re free to take it in the direction of your choice.

    1 ??By daring, great fears are concealed.?
    - Lucanus (Marcus Annaeus Lucan)

    2 -?Show me a hero and I will write you a tragedy.? F. Scott Fitzgerald

    3- ?We lead our lives like water flowing down a hill, going more or less in one direction until we splash into something that forces us to find a new course.? Arthur Golden

    4- ?Love can do all but raise the Dead.? Emily Dickinson

    5- ?Anger is a killing thing: it kills the man who angers, for each rage leaves him less than he had been before - it takes something from him.? Louis L'Amour

    6- ?The sweetest joy, the wildest woe is love.?
    - Philip James Bailey
     
  24. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Challenge one:

    So young, proud, sure of the Light, his blue eyes do the impossible. How can he know that under the prison of a thousand heinous acts, I am still that young child crying for his mother, still mourning a wife that loved too well the monster within?

    Turning away from his eager hope, I catch the reflection of dread armor, of a fiend encased in a black coffin, drowning in innocent blood.

    The boy is wrong. There is nothing left of Anakin; there is only Vader.

    "Luke, it's too late for me, son."

    And I lead him to his fate.
     
  25. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Nice drabble -- Vader, just keep telling yourself those lies when you look at Luke. [face_mischief]

    Hmmmm, I guess I was in the mood for a little drabble. :)




    Mr Fix-It


    Abandoned Alliance base. Five, fully-armed, stormtroopers. No Rebels to kill.

    Useless.

    Terrified pilot and a faulty computer.

    Only one person who can fix it.

    Bump. Thump.

    Unwanted comes the memory of a simpler time when you could easily slide under the navicomp to find the overheated chip or wire, or whatever it is.

    Black helmet, breather, body armor. You can barely turn your head in the crawlspace to see. But you still have the instinct.

    The demanded parts and tools are hastily placed in your gloved hand.

    The hangar maintenance crew will pay dearly for this when your ship returns.
    ----


    But, um, I might have voted for someone other than Vader for the stamp. [face_blush]
     
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