Anakin vs. Anakin

Oh yes, in a battle between Anakin and Anakin, I think that Anakin would be the clear winner.

 

Valiento wrote:

The thing was, the only reason yoda used luke as a tool, as many sources say is because the fact that he was vader's son would get under vader's skin effecting his emotions and his ability to function at full capacity.

I've heard this stuff before. I don't know if I buy into the whole "manipulation" deal. Luke was the "new hope" because he was the key to ending Vader's life, thus concluding the "prophecy" and clearing the way for restoration of the Jedi Order and peace throughout the galaxy.

And regarding Vader, I guess you have a point. Anakin Skywalker was something of an aberation, as he was bred by the midiclorians (sp?) to "bring balance to the Force." This would necessitate him to be more powerful than any other Jedi. But, in the end, Anakin was weak and open to manipluation. Thus, while he does fulfill his destiny, he never truely becomes the powerful Jedi he could have been.

 

"I've heard this stuff before. I don't know if I buy into the whole "manipulation" deal. Luke was the "new hope" because he was the key to ending Vader's life, thus concluding the "prophecy" and clearing the way for restoration of the Jedi Order and peace throughout the galaxy."

Well that is the written text as this being the lit forum we tend to see it as more the truth than anything else. But to add to it, remember it was obi-wan that lied to luke(I know he says certain point of view, but it's still a lie), a lie that manipulated luke into wanting to avenge his father, and dare I say it mete out revenge on vader. The story that obi-wan weeved was all to prepared to manipulate a response in luke to start him down the path to being a weapon toward the emperor. Yoda just forged it even further. You must also remember, most jedi go through a lifetime of study from birth. Luke just got a crash course in about a month of time. His training was and can be seen in ESB, and it's adaptations training on the dexterity of the force, and the powers, with limited amount of warning to beware the darkside. Luke had not received the training that many jedi before him had. I will point out that yoda of the time of movies according to the official sources is more powerful than luke as well, yet he knew that he couldn't fight vader, he was gambling on the chance that luke would be able to effect vader's emotions and make him fumble and lose.

"And regarding Vader, I guess you have a point. Anakin Skywalker was something of an aberation, as he was bred by the midiclorians (sp?) to "bring balance to the Force." This would necessitate him to be more powerful than any other Jedi. But, in the end, Anakin was weak and open to manipluation. Thus, while he does fulfill his destiny, he never truely becomes the powerful Jedi he could have been."


Exactly, and yet, he was still powerful enough to be more powerful than his son. Remember my information was from his power at rotj, and lukes power at time of NJO. For luke you would have to shave off 25 years worth of knowledge of the mechanics of the force. Luke was not as powerful as he capalbe of being at the time of NJO. As well, most of the information was that vader was as powerful as emperor of at the time of ROTJ, something luke wasn't, hence why luke lost to palpatine. Perhaps if he would have fallen to his rage he could have had the raw power and edge to possibly destroy palpatine,and then again maybe not, but luke didn't want to risk that path any further. It was vader who ended up throwing palpatine down the shaft in the end.

 

Valiento wrote:

Well that is the written text as this being the lit forum we tend to see it as more the truth than anything else.

Where was this written? Not being confrontational, just curious. I've heard of this, but never read it. Is it in the "encyclopedia?"

Either way, I guess there was a certain level of manipulation on behalf of Yoda and Obi-Wan against Luke. But then that manipulation was "ruined" by Vader when he told Luke that he was his father.

 

As I recall you can find it in HOT, other bantam era books, several WEG, and WOTC guides, as well as hints in the ROTJ, and esb novels as I recall. I can't really give you exact page numbers and all that, since I don't keep track of page number info to that degree.

Perhaps there is others you might ask like sturm? I think he keeps track of things like this.

As for the encyclapedia I'd have to look it up in their later.

 

Here's a comment I made regarding the prophecy on the "Son of Skywalker" thread:
Before I started reading the novels, a friend proposed to me his theory regarding the "Chosen One" prophecy from the movies. His theory suggested that Anakin Skywalker would bring balance to the Force in the manifestation of Luke Skywalker.
So, perhaps Luke is the actual tool of destiny here.

 

Well, lucas in interviews has said the prophecy of bringing balance to the force was by throwing palpatine down the shaft, as I recall. At that point neither the light and the dark was balanced.

 

Valiento wrote:

As I recall you can find it in HOT, other bantam era books, several WEG, and WOTC guides, as well as hints in the ROTJ, and esb novels as I recall. I can't really give you exact page numbers and all that, since I don't keep track of page number info to that degree.

That's okay, Valiento, I can dig that up myself. Just needed a starting point.

 

I thought Lucas stated that the balance he refered to was that there were only two Dark Jedi and two Light Jedi. I mean, when Vader tosses Palpatine down the shaft, then dies, there is no balance at all. There's only Light.

 

Wel picking out the "strongest" jedi is not a easy thing to do considering so many factors. Obviously from a Midi perspective Anakin Skywalker was the strongest jedi ever. Unfortunatley there are so many other factors to take into account. Time to study and train and actually use your force potential easily can offset a smaller Midi count. Then there are factors like intelligence,good will,is the person strong or weak,choosing the correct path,cocky,overconfident,patient or headstrong,etc.

Palpatine I'm sure had a very high Midi count but he also had lots of training to master his potential. Also he was smart,slick,extremely patient letting his plan take course over a long period of time.

Anakin Solo in contrast may have been extremely powerful in raw talent due to a high midi count. Unfortunately at the end he was reckless and impatient throwing himself in front of his sister causing a fatal wound. If I recall correctly Jaina was pissed how stupid her brother was for doing that. So despite his raw power he ended up dieing where in contrast someone like his brother who may not be quite as strong as Anakin could grow to be a legendary jedi.

When taking this all into account i have to say in all around character my top would be:

1.Luke Skywalker
2.Darth Sidious/Palpatine/Emperor
3.Anakin Skywalker/Vader
4.Yoda
5.Kyle Katarn

With honerable mention going to Leia. She in force potential may be Luke's equal and even with extremely limited training she has won over may unbelievable situations. Since there is no "luck" this has got to do something with a passive use of her ability...but then again Han has beaten the odds so many times also lol so that theory may be shot to hell.

 

Well, here's my "Top Five" Jedi:

5. Jaina Solo
4. Anakin Solo
3. Jacen Solo
2. Yoda/Luke Skywalker

And the top Jedi is:

1. Anakin Skywalker

 

Many Many jedi overlap, you can't just list them in an arbitrary top 5/10 countdown. Many are equals with strengths and weaknesses in different directions. Kyle Katarn is vouted to be an equal of Luke for instance according to the EU.