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Anakin vs Obi-Wan AND Qui-Gon

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by DarthMateous, Aug 16, 2005.

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  1. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Had Qui-Gon lived, do you think Anakin's lust to save Padme would have caused him to still fight both of his mentors? (mirroring the duel of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Maul?) Wouldn't it have been interesting if it was Anakin who killed Qui-Gon instead of Maul.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. JMaster Luke

    JMaster Luke Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2000
    That it is cool. But only problem is, in order for qui gon to be in Ep 3, that means he wouldn't of died in Ep 1. If he didn't die, then Obi wan wouldn't of trained anakin at all. And thats a major plot hole.
     
  3. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    That it is cool. But only problem is, in order for qui gon to be in Ep 3, that means he wouldn't of died in Ep 1. If he didn't die, then Obi wan wouldn't of trained anakin at all. And thats a major plot hole.

    Assuming Qui-Gon lived, he would've trained Anakin and Obi-Wan would've become a Knight. So then it would've been Qui-Gon who would have tracked him down to Mustafar. The asumption (plot hole) I'm making is that Qui-Gon, knowing how powerful Anakin was, would have asked for Obi-Wan's assistance.

    That would definitely make for a compelling climactic duel. Anakin's Master from day one (Qui-Gon) is forced to face off with his pupil, who does him in. Then, Qui-Gon's OLD padawan (Obi-Wan) has to finish Anakin off. (And imagine how much sadder the end of ROTS would have been.)
     
  4. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Yes, Anakin would've still turned. Palpatine would've still been an influence and Qui-gon would still be blind to the dangers of training Anakin.
     
  5. Rhindle_The_Red

    Rhindle_The_Red Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2002
    I don't agree. I think that had Qui-Gon lived, Palpatine would have never been able to influence Anakin the way he did. Qui-Gon had his own problems with the Jedi Council and would have been better able to counsel Anakin than any of the other Jedi could.

    The reason Palpatine's influence worked so well is that he gave Anakin support he could not find elsewhere. I think Qui-Gon could have offered that support, meaning Palpatine would'nt have an in.
     
  6. COMMANDER76

    COMMANDER76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    everything still works out fine if QGJ lives on to episode III

    OWK could still kill DM in TPM....thus gaining knighthood, and QJG could have rewarded his former padawan with the task of training Anakin.

    OWK would still follow his path into AOTC......forcing QGJ into more of a support role and leaving Yoda's first fight for ROTS.

    OWK and Anakin would engage DT at the end of AOTC....losing in the same manner.....except it would be QGJ who comes around the corner to fight DT instead of Yoda.

    Mace would still kill Jango

    in ROTS QGJ,OWK, and Anakin would be sent on the mission to rescue Palpatine.....
    OWK would still lose the same way, but Anakin would be knocked out by DT's kick for a period of 45 seconds.

    during that time QGJ and DT would duel with DT killing his former padawan as Anakin is waking up.....sending Anakin over the edge....allowing Anakin to kill DT

    the rest of the movie plays out as planned.....with Anakin even more obsessed with saving the lives of those he loves.
     
  7. JMaster Luke

    JMaster Luke Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2000
    I agree. The fight between anakin and qui gon would be so great. Can you just imagine that? Little anakin who so loved qui gon and the jedi grows up and kills qui gon.

    but again the only downside to that would be when obi wan fights anakin there would be no relationship. Because if qui gon trained anakin, obi wan would be a knight and he'd go off on his own missoins. And even if he did team up with qui gon and anakin during AOTC (would qui, anakin, obi, and yoda fight dooku then?) Obi wan wouldn't be the father figure.


    Wait i just thought of something. Well i guess they could of made anakin and obi more like brothers in AOTC. Seeing as how qui gon would of trained both of them. Then in ROTS obi would have to fight his brother (i know the original ROTS obi still says they are like brothers)

    but it doesn't matter because we know from the OT obi wan trained anakin. If there is a way around that, then having anakin kill qui gon in ROTS would be SO great.

    edit: accually i agree with Rhindle_The_Red. I find it hard that if qui gon lived that anakin would turn. And the guy after Rhindle had a good post. But the only problem i see is why would qui gon tell obi wan to train anakin? Qui gon is the one that believes in anakin. Its like you see a old car and your excited to buy it and build it up and make it all fast and new. But then you tell your friend to buy it and do it.

    edit2: COMMANDER76 i gotta say i love the idea of qui gon walking in at AOTC instead of Yoda. Sure qui gon is not stronger then dooku, but maybe just the fact that qui gon is eating up time forces Dooku to flee. Maybe while they are fighting dooku notices clone troopers are coming so he flees. Not because qui gon is stronger but because he knows he can't take on qui gon and a squad of clones at the same time.

    Plus it'd make more sense for qui gon to save obi/anakin instead of Yoda.

    Yoda "Agree to train the boy i do not"

    Luke "and let han and leia die?"
    Yoda "if you honor what they fight for"

    but qui gon BELIEVES in Anakin. He'd rather like dooku go and saved the chosen one.
     
  8. Old Juan

    Old Juan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 1999
    Even if Qui-Gon had lived Palpatine would have found a way to gain an audiance with Anakin and start his evil influence on the boy. I'm sorry but the moment Qui-Gon brought Anakin within Palpatine's presence..it was over. The reality was that Palpatine was just too good. He had everyone, Qui-Gon included fooled.

    As for a fight between Qui-Gon and Anakin, well Obi-Wan would have to there in order for Qui-Gon to have a chance in lasting any amount of time against him otherwise Anakin would make quick work of the elder master.
     
  9. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    edit2: COMMANDER76 i gotta say i love the idea of qui gon walking in at AOTC instead of Yoda. Sure qui gon is not stronger then dooku, but maybe just the fact that qui gon is eating up time forces Dooku to flee. Maybe while they are fighting dooku notices clone troopers are coming so he flees. Not because qui gon is stronger but because he knows he can't take on qui gon and a squad of clones at the same time.

    If Qui-Gon wasn't involved in the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight, I think if would've been great to see Qui-Gon confront Anakin at the Jedi Temple. (Before Anakin slays the younglings). This would've been a good foreshadow of Obi-Wan vs. Vader in ANH.

    Anakin/Vader really doesn't fight anyone of significance before his duel with Obi-Wan (just a bunch of padawan) So this would've shown Anakin/Vader's true power and make him even more of a threat, which would Justify Obi-Wan's need to fight him. And I think it would've been a great way to reinforce the fact that Anakin is dead and "consumed by Vader".

    But I still think the duel between the three at the end would've been a fantastic parallel to the duel at the end of TPM.
     
  10. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    As for a fight between Qui-Gon and Anakin, well Obi-Wan would have to there in order for Qui-Gon to have a chance in lasting any amount of time against him otherwise Anakin would make quick work of the elder master.

    Qui-Gon would've gone with Padme to try one last time to save him from the Dark Side. Obi-Wan would've still snuck aboard the ship.

    Qui-Gon and Padme would try to change Anakin's mind, but Anakin would claim that "the Jedi are trying to take you away from me" and would vow never tolet that happen.

    Then Anakin would've fought and killed Qui-Gon, "making short work of the elder Jedi."

    Obi-Wan would arrive just as Anakin killed Qui-Gon. He would react the same way he reacted in TPM. They would've fought to the death with the same results.

    It still works.
     
  11. Shiphunk2

    Shiphunk2 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Interesting concept. That would've been awesome to see on screen.
     
  12. JMaster Luke

    JMaster Luke Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2000
    I love the idea but again there are 2 problems.

    1) If qui gons alive then he'll train Anakin, not obi wan. And there'd be no reason for qui gon to tell obi to train anakin if he's alive.

    2) Who would teach obi and yoda to become one with the force?
     
  13. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    I love the idea but again there are 2 problems.

    1) If qui gons alive then he'll train Anakin, not obi wan. And there'd be no reason for qui gon to tell obi to train anakin if he's alive.

    2) Who would teach obi and yoda to become one with the force?


    You are definitely right about your first point. The whole idea wouldn't work with the following line from ANH:

    BEN
    A young Jedi named Darth Vader,
    who was a pupil of mine until he
    turned to evil, helped the Empire
    hunt down and destroy the Jedi
    Knights. He betrayed and murdered
    your father. Now the Jedi are all
    but extinct. Vader was seduced
    by the dark side of the Force.


    Obviously, if Qui-Gon doesn't die, Obi-Wan would never have had a "pupil" named Darth Vader.

    But I disagree about the second point. Obi-Wan retained his identity shortly after his death to be able to commune with Luke after death. I'm sure Qui-Gon would have been able to do the same.


     
  14. TheCRZA

    TheCRZA Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2005
    Well, my interpretation is that had Qui Gon lived, the problems with Anakin
    would never have arisen. Qui Gon didn't really seem to give a hoot about
    galactic goings on and would have taken his padawan somewhere to learn how
    to be a Jedi without attachment to the government.

    Do you not ken? For all the Jedi's hooplah about attachment, it was the Jedi
    attachment to government which blinded them to the truths.

    Obi Wan did his best, aye, but Obi Wan was also too invovled with the politics
    of the Jedi Council.

    Anakin needed to be trained by someone who was not held in such high regard by Yoda,
    as Kenobi was.
     
  15. JMaster Luke

    JMaster Luke Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2000
    and at the end i agree with TheCRZA. QUi Gon to me is a what if in anakins life. What if qui gon lived. I believe qui gon would of been a MAJOR difference in anakins life. He first of all would help free shmi. He tried already to do it in TPM but watto only let him have on slave. So we see that qui gon cared enough for anakin to free his mother. So i'm sure down the road he'd try again.

    And plus qui gon would be anakins father figure, not palpitine. Even though anakin says obi wan is like a father to him, it didn't seem like it. Qui gon would of been a more father figure.

    I believe anakin would never turn to the dark side if qui gon was alive.
     
  16. TheCRZA

    TheCRZA Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2005
    Not so sure about 2 aspects of that.

    First, I don't think Qui Gon would have gone back for Shmi.
    He tried, it didn't work. It wasn't the will of the force.
    I think Qui Gon would have reinforced the Jedi disdain for
    attachment. Shmi told Anakin "don't look back." It was the
    best piece of advice given by any character in the PT to Anakin.

    Secondly, Qui Gon would not have been a father figure, brother figure,
    kindly uncle figure, or grandfather we don't talk about figure to Anakin.
    He would have simply been his master.

    The I'm your brother, you're like a father to me relationship between
    Anakin and Obi Wan is half the problem. Anakin couches relationships
    in the only way he's ever known.

    Qui Gon certainly never had this sort of emotionalized relationship to Obi Wan
    because Obi Wan had that mindset trained out of him as a youngling.

    Qui Gon would have been best for Anakin to help him quiet his mind and commit
    himself to the difficulties of being a Jedi and letting go of all that entails.
    He wouldn't have let Anakin even board a ship which had ever been to Tattooine.

    Then, by the time Anakin would be ready for the trials, he would be Anakin, a Jedi.
    And not Anakin, foster brother/child to Obi Wan, son of Shmi, lover of Padme, protogee
    of Sidious.

    Edit: In summation, I suppose what I'm offering is that Anakin makes the decisions
    he makes, for good and ill, in his life because of the relationships in his life,
    not despite them.
     
  17. sepharih

    sepharih Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    And plus qui gon would be anakins father figure, not palpitine. Even though anakin says obi wan is like a father to him, it didn't seem like it. Qui gon would of been a more father figure.


    You just said it right there. Obi-wan was Luke's father figure. Qui-gon is Anakin's father figure, Obi-wan is more like Anakin's brother. That was why Qui-gon was created I think, because Lucas realized that the way Obi-wan spoke of Anakin in ANH and ROTJ made him sound far more like a brother in arms rather than a father figure. And that makes all the difference in his training.
    Half the time Obi-wan is just trying to keep Anakin undercontrol, and for most of the time he isn't. The simple fact is that while Anakin may like Obi-wan and may enjoy fighting alongside him, he does not respect him as a mentor.
    "Anakin: In some ways, in a lot of ways, I'm really ahead of him."
    Just look at the opening scenes in AOTC, how Anakin is so apt to argue with Obi-wan and overstep his bounds. While Obi-wan shadowed Qui-gon, watched him and payed attention to his lead, Anakin completely disregards Obi-wan's opinion or point of view on the matter, preffering instead to argue or convince obi-wan that his own is superior. The apprentice has overstepped his bounds. This is not entirely Obi-wan's failing as Anakin, rather than learning his place as the apprentice chooses instead to blame Obi-wan for not seeing his potential, but it is Obi-wan's failing that he has not managed to gain Anakin's respect in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC.

    Obi-wan does this once in all TPM. And that is in relation to Anakin.
    Obi-wan oversteps his bounds as the apprentice and claims that Qui-gon's view of Anakin is short sited and he is unable to see what should be blatantly obvious, that the boy is dangerous. Qui-gon says simply "The council will decide Anakin's fate, and that should be enough for you. Now get on board." Obi-wan does not persist in his argument. He leaves and begins to quietly reflect on what has happend. Then afterwards he apoligizes for his blatant disrespect and Qui-gon seeing this complements Obi-wan and all is well.
    While I do believe Qui-gon to be the better teacher, Anakin's fall can be chocked up too(besides the will of the force) Anakin's impatience and brashness, Obi-wan's inexperience as an instructor, and most of all the volatile relationship which these two share.
    From the moment that Qui-gon stands in front of the Council attempting to take Anakin as his apprentice a subtle rivalry is established. Obi-wan is as much Qui-gon's son as Anakin is, but Obi-wan as the older brother is feeling slightly betrayed at how he is being seemingly cast asside for the "new and improved" student. Anakin is young and naive, but not enough i'm sure to not realize that the only reason Obi-wan took him as a student to begin with was it was Qui-gon's dying wish. Now i'm not suggesting that Obi-wan didn't love anakin, because he most definately did grow very fond of him. But at the same time, issues like that can leave a grudge between to people that are not easily rectified.
    From the get go Anakin was very respectfull of Qui-gon and would have learned his place as the student very early on, and if he didn't Qui-gon would not simply stand for his disobedience
    There's a reason why Obi-wan Qui-gon's duel with Darth Maul is called Duel of the Fates.
    Because it is in that Duel that everyone's fate is sealed. Qui-gon's death is one of, if not the most powerful death in the saga because his death represents that all Hope of avoiding the darkness and destruction of the coming days is lost.. This is why I think alot more people are starting to warm up to TPM finally. Because now that they've seen how the saga comes together, they're realizing that despite looking "kiddy" on the surface, beneath that, it is all so horrificly tragic.
     
  18. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    JMasterLuke

    and at the end i agree with TheCRZA. QUi Gon to me is a what if in anakins life. What if qui gon lived. I believe qui gon would of been a MAJOR difference in anakins life. He first of all would help free shmi. He tried already to do it in TPM but watto only let him have on slave. So we see that qui gon cared enough for anakin to free his mother. So i'm sure down the road he'd try again.

    Although I agree that Qui-Gon always did things his own way, regardless of the Jedi Council's approval; that point is still questionable. He didn't save Shmi when he had the chance. So I'm not so sure he would've done anything to help Anakin here.

    And plus qui gon would be anakins father figure, not palpitine. Even though anakin says obi wan is like a father to him, it didn't seem like it. Qui gon would of been a more father figure.

    I completely agree with you here. Anakin looked up to, even revered Qui-Gon. He didn't have the same respect for Obi-Wan.

    I believe anakin would never turn to the dark side if qui gon was alive.

    Although I think the chances were less likely, Anakin's fate was set as soon as Maul was killed.
     
  19. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    TheCRZA:

    First, I don't think Qui Gon would have gone back for Shmi.
    He tried, it didn't work. It wasn't the will of the force.
    I think Qui Gon would have reinforced the Jedi disdain for
    attachment. Shmi told Anakin "don't look back." It was the
    best piece of advice given by any character in the PT to Anakin.


    Exactly.

    Qui Gon would have been best for Anakin to help him quiet his mind and commit himself to the difficulties of being a Jedi and letting go of all that entails. He wouldn't have let Anakin even board a ship which had ever been to Tattooine.

    Then, by the time Anakin would be ready for the trials, he would be Anakin, a Jedi. And not Anakin, foster brother/child to Obi Wan, son of Shmi, lover of Padme, protogee of Sidious.


    Not so sure. Remember, Yoda sensed much fear in Anakin. Fear of Loss. Anakin became greedy in wanting to keep those he was attached to alive. And I still think Palpatine would have been able to manipulate Anakin. that's his forte. He's the master manipulator. He was able to convince Dooku to join the Dark Side and Dooku was a fully realized, fully trained Jedi Master. Not a naive, inexperience Knight like Anakin.

    Edit: In summation, I suppose what I'm offering is that Anakin makes the decisions he makes, for good and ill, in his life because of the relationships in his life, not despite them.

    Right. It was Anakin's choice to join the Sith and give into the Dark Side. Qui-Gon would've warned him about Padme, just like Obi-Wan, but the results would still be the same. Anakin would choose love, atachment and the Dark Side. He would've still married Padme in secret. And the end result because of his greed and Palpatines manipulation would've probably been the same.
     
  20. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Sepharih:

    Obi-wan was Luke's father figure. Qui-gon is Anakin's father figure, Obi-wan is more like Anakin's brother. That was why Qui-gon was created I think, because Lucas realized that the way Obi-wan spoke of Anakin in ANH and ROTJ made him sound far more like a brother in arms rather than a father figure. And that makes all the difference in his training.

    I agree. This is the dynamic of Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship. Siblings are jealous of each other. They're never really jealous of their parents. Siblings are competitive with each other, not their parents. Ultimately, this dynamic led to Anakin's downfall.

    Half the time Obi-wan is just trying to keep Anakin undercontrol, and for most of the time he isn't. The simple fact is that while Anakin may like Obi-wan and may enjoy fighting alongside him, he does not respect him as a mentor.

    Exactly. In real life, kids generally listen to and obey their parents. But if their siblings tell them what to do (even if it's the same thing tghe parents said), they don't usually listen. Infact, they usually rebel. (Shut up. You're not the boss. etc...)

    "Anakin: In some ways, in a lot of ways, I'm really ahead of him."
    Just look at the opening scenes in AOTC, how Anakin is so apt to argue with Obi-wan and overstep his bounds. While Obi-wan shadowed Qui-gon, watched him and payed attention to his lead, Anakin completely disregards Obi-wan's opinion or point of view on the matter, preffering instead to argue or convince obi-wan that his own is superior. The apprentice has overstepped his bounds. This is not entirely Obi-wan's failing as Anakin, rather than learning his place as the apprentice chooses instead to blame Obi-wan for not seeing his potential, but it is Obi-wan's failing that he has not managed to gain Anakin's respect in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC. [/b]

    I'd say this is due to the fact that Anakin was too old to start the training. Had he started earlier, he would've learned his place and learned to follow the lead. But he was already conditioned to think, feel and behave a certain way.

    Obi-wan does this once in all TPM. And that is in relation to Anakin.
    Obi-wan oversteps his bounds as the apprentice and claims that Qui-gon's view of Anakin is short sited and he is unable to see what should be blatantly obvious, that the boy is dangerous. Qui-gon says simply "The council will decide Anakin's fate, and that should be enough for you. Now get on board." Obi-wan does not persist in his argument. He leaves and begins to quietly reflect on what has happend. Then afterwards he apoligizes for his blatant disrespect and Qui-gon seeing this complements Obi-wan and all is well.


    Great point! It's natural to disagree with our superiors or parents from time to time, but we have to realize that their knowledge and experience is greater than ours. Ultimately , we have to trust them. That's what Obi-Wan did in TPM. That's what Anakin failed to realize in ROTS. This is Anakin's biggest problem in ROTS because Palpatine AND the Jedi use him, causing him to question EVERYONE. And he ultimately trusts no one. Not the Jedi. Not Obi-Wan. Not even Palpatine. He only really trusts himself and Padme.

    While I do believe Qui-gon to be the better teacher, Anakin's fall can be chocked up too(besides the will of the force) Anakin's impatience and brashness, Obi-wan's inexperience as an instructor, and most of all the volatile relationship which these two share.
    From the moment that Qui-gon stands in front of the Council attempting to take Anakin as his apprentice a subtle rivalry is established. Obi-wan is as much Qui-gon's son as Anakin is, but Obi-wan as the older brother is feeling slightly betrayed at how he is being seemingly cast asside for the "new and improved" student. Anakin is young and naive, but not enough i'm sure to not realize that the only reason Obi-wan took him as a student to begin with was it was Qui-gon's dying wish. Now i'm not suggesting that Obi-wan didn't love anakin, because he most
     
  21. Chosen_One1

    Chosen_One1 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2005
    Obi-Wan would arrive just as Anakin killed Qui-Gon. He would react the same way he reacted in TPM. They would've fought to the death with the same results.

    A large part of the reason why Obi-Wan lasted as long as he did in The Duel was because he was so familiar with Anakin, if the familiarity isn't there then Obi-Wan loses. If Qui-Gon trained Anakin then Anakin wouldn't have died on Mustafar.
     
  22. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    A large part of the reason why Obi-Wan lasted as long as he did in The Duel was because he was so familiar with Anakin, if the familiarity isn't there then Obi-Wan loses. If Qui-Gon trained Anakin then Anakin wouldn't have died on Mustafar.

    Actually Obi-Wan is a fast learner. That's how he defeated Maul. In the Novelization of TPM, after fighting for some time, Obi-Wan figures out Maul's style. There is some dialogue between the two where Obi-Wan tells Maul that he now understands Maul's style and that the technique is and older style. His ability to adapt is what enable him to challenge Maul, who was clearly superior with a lightsaber.

    So I still think Obi-Wan would've been able to adapt and learn Anakin's style. (Especially since they would've been tought by the same master.
     
  23. michaelbacca

    michaelbacca Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2005
    The thing that everyone overlooks is that Qui-Gon was a rogue Jedi. Dooku was his master and would have tried to influence Qui-Gon to join with him. I haven't seen AOTC in some time but I believe Dooku makes a comment to that nature when he is talking to Obi-Wan right after they capture him. Obi-Wan tries to defend his master but Dooku knew that had Qui-Gon lived he would have been turned to the darkside and joined with the seperatists. It seemed that Qui-Gon was fed up with the Jedi and the council in particular. In TPM Obi-Wan comments that if Qui-Gon went along with the council and didn't disobey them constantly then he would be a part of the Jedi council. Qui-Gon could be turned in my opinion.
     
  24. DarthMateous

    DarthMateous Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    The thing that everyone overlooks is that Qui-Gon was a rogue Jedi. Dooku was his master and would have tried to influence Qui-Gon to join with him.

    Interesting idea, but I don't agree. Even though he was a "rogue" Jedi, I don't think he would've joined the Sith.

    I think Qui-Gon had a good grasp on the big picture in dealing with the Force. He was considered a "rogue" Jedi because he didn't stick to the Jedi Code as rigidly as the Jedi Order expected. This is because he was open to "other" possibilities that the force offered. He looked outside the lines. He looked at things from a unique perspective. That's why HE was the only one to figure out how to retain his identity after death. The others all followed the same rules and principles. Thus their eyes were never open to other possibilities.

    The same holds true for Dooku. He had "tunnel" vision on his goal of changing the Republic and eventually became too focused on gaining power. His tunnel vision caused he to be oblivious to the fact that he was just a pawn in Palpatine's game.

    So I think Qui-Gon wouldn't have been so naive to Dooku's ways because of the way he approached the Force.

    I haven't seen AOTC in some time but I believe Dooku makes a comment to that nature when he is talking to Obi-Wan right after they capture him. Obi-Wan tries to defend his master but Dooku knew that had Qui-Gon lived he would have been turned to the darkside and joined with the seperatists.

    Dooku was lying. He was purposely trying to manipulate Obi-Wan by deceiving Obi-Wan. That's what the Sith do. They lie, cheat, connive, betray, manipulate etc. But Obi-Wan states the truth. Qui-Gon Jinn would never join Dooku.

    Assuming Qui-Gon survived the Maul fight, he would've seen the dangers of the Sith and would have been on the same page as Obi-Wan, Yoda and Mace in trying to unravel the mystery of the Sith.

    It seemed that Qui-Gon was fed up with the Jedi and the council in particular. In TPM Obi-Wan comments that if Qui-Gon went along with the council and didn't disobey them constantly then he would be a part of the Jedi council. Qui-Gon could be turned in my opinion.

    As I mentioned above, he disobeyed the Council because he had a more open view of the code. He believed in the Jedi Code, but he was more willing to bend the rules a bit for good. He got involved in things that most Jedi wouldn't.

    Freeing Anakin is a perfect example of how Qui-Gon viewed things differently and handled them in a "rogue" way. He knew there was something special about Anakin, so he bet Watto against Anakin's freedom. This was something most Jedi wouldn't do. And Qui-Gon went even further. He used the force to manipule the chance cube to ensure that it was Anakin that would be freed if they won the race. Then the Council forbid him from Training Anakin, so he told Anakin to watch everything he did.

    The key question here is "what was Qui-Gon's motivation in disobeying the Council?". Was it to gain unlimited power for himself? Or was it to do good? That answer is obvious. Thus, I don't think that just by disobeying the council and being a "rogue" Jedi, we can conclude that Qui-Gon would've joined Dooku.
     
  25. Atticus

    Atticus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2002
    I dont agree, If Qui-Gon lived Anakin would have had no use to get guidance form Palps. The only reason he probably went to Palps in the first place was to replace what he had lost when Qui-Gon died. Even if he did start seeing Palps, I'm sure Qui-Gon wouldn't have allowed it anymore. Also, the only reasons Anakin was dangerous was because the way the counsel handled him and his training. They basically ignored his problems and expected everything to be worked out on its own, they didt give him any guidance or help. Qui-Gon would have noticed any of his troubles when they started and helped Anakin out with them. Qui-Gon was the right teacher for Anakin since he was the rebel of the Order, he would have helped rescue Shmi, he also probably would have helped him figure out a way to save Padme or better explained to Anakin that he shouldnt worry about it since the future is impossible to read.
     
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