Anakin was right to kill the Tusken Raiders!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Duckman, May 20, 2002.

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  1. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    I think Anakin was perfectly justified in wiping out the entire camp after what happened to his mother. You could argue that the women and children didn't have anything to do with Shmi's capture and death, but they were there while she was being tortured for a month, remember. They knew about it, and they did nothing. If they had any compassion for humans, one of them would have released her. But they didn't, and paid the price.
    They were animals, and he killed them like animals. Good job.
    julianzolo likes this.
  2. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    No he wasn't. Maybe if he had killed the Tusken Raiders who had been responsible for capturing and torturing Shmi, that would have been justified, but he killed everyone, and I think it's clear in the film that killing any of them was wrong, as that was his first step to the Dark Side. Do try to concentrate, Duckman!
  3. Bilton Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 1
    The point is he's a Jedi and Jedi are not allowed to do things like that.
  4. grand_moff_spidey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 1
    the tuskens use machines, make their clothes, and know to march in single file to hide their true numbers. they are not just 'animals'.
  5. Ugly_Dookling Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2002
    star 3
    Not this again...

    Anakin is a cold blooded murderer. He deserves any pain and suffering he receives in EPISODE III. Padme deserves suffering as well for supporting her murderous husband.
  6. The Butler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 1999
    star 4
    I have NO problem at all with Anakin killing all the male Tuskens. I wouldn't have had a problem with him accidentally killing the women and children--collateral damage, so to speak. But, even if the Tusken kids were guilty by association, they didn't deserve the instant death penalty.

    Duckman, I do agree that the Tusken were animals. Barbarians. Still, we don't kill baby animals either.
  7. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    I don't think it was right. I think he should've snuck out the whole he created in the hut with his lightsaber with the body of his mother.

    If any tuskens would've tried to stop him, he should've killed them, but that's it.
  8. Tukafo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
    I wonder if George Lucas has thought of that - there are people in the audience who actually believe that the actions of the dark side are justified
  9. Carter313 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Just the men would have been allright but women and children are a no-no in combat.
  10. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    "I wonder if George Lucas has thought of that - there are people in the audience who actually believe that the actions of the dark side are justified"


    Probably, but there are also people who believe the Empire is justified too.
  11. BrendanM Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 1
    Lucas was clever to write the scene in this way. He doesn't want to pose us with a very obvious scenario... he wanted for Anakin to do an evil, forbidden thing, but for us to say, "Well, shoot, maybe he was right to do that."

    You can't very well say that the women and children deserved to die just because they didn't release Shmi. Think about the male-dominated hunter/gatherer type of society that the Tuskens probably have. (We apparently know what the women look like from looking at the new line of action figures, and we haven't seen women out on patrol in the other films).

    Imagine you were a Tusken Raider child... if Daddy brought home a woman and tied her up in the hut, and did this often, it would be as normal to you as coming home with the groceries.

    A Jedi uses his powers for defense, not to wage vendettas. Those of you who say, "It was justified, they killed his mother, etc."... you wouldn't make very good Jedis.
  12. JOHN6370 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 1
    I have to agree with you ANAKIN WAS SOOOOOOO RIGHT....And for all you lib loving freaks.....that is the ONLY THING THAT CAN STOP A FUTURE ATTACK...think about it....You can think of the tusken raders as terrorist...the only wat to stop terrorist i s to kill them at the root..LIKE A WEED...yep you herd me...kill the women and childern too..that is why in isrel we still have terrerist bombing as of sunday another terrerist killed himself and killed another 3 people....YOu know how young some of these terrerist are? At the ripe old age of 5 years of age they are killing themselfs......so yes ANAKIN was right to kill ALL OF THEM...AND WE Americans are lucky we live in a country that is thousands of miles away form the terrerist....because if we lived coloser most of us would think the way anakin does.........
  13. theharri Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 1
    That the dark side could be so strong in many Star Wars fans is very scary. But this is is a danger that exists with all works of art that portray both good and evil. Many people will idolize the evil and not the good. Why else would human history be the way it is?
  14. Rando Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    Having found his mother after years and having her die like that would be enough to push most people over the edge. Adding to that fact that he has great power just waiting to be unleashed makes it worse. Not acting purely on emotion however is what separates the good jedi from the bad.

    However, I find it interesting that everyone naturally assumes that only the Men are guilty. Whose to say that the Women are not just as bad as the Men? Perhaps they smacked her around as well and forced her to do their chores. The kids probably threw rocks at her as well using her as target practice.

    Yes those two paragraphs conflict with each other, but so are the ways of the Dark Side...
  15. theharri Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 1
    Strong the dark side is, on this board.

    Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
    hate leads to suffering. I feel much fear in you.
  16. Jado Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    He wasn't justified in killing all of the tusken raiders.
    However it is something that almost any human being might do and you don't have to be evil to do what he did in that instance. Although it may be wrong you are under the control of intense emotions. Also the tuskens are not really a peace loving race and are potrayed as sub human so his killing them is shocking none the less, a big step to the darkside indeed but it isn't as powerfull as it will be when he kills a human or a race potrayed as humanoids.

    Yeah it wasn't a good thing to do and shouldn't be looked upon with a smile but it was understandable.
  17. theharri Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 1
    I would like to point out we don't have any knowlegde of the history of the Tuskans. For all we know they may have been the orginal inhabitants of the planet and been driven from their homes by the humans. It has happened many times in human history and many of the human and non human inhabitants of Tattoine don´t strike me as particulary nice or ethical people so I woulnd't put it past them. It is worth noting that the Tusken raiders live in huts, perhaps a reference to the countless indigenous people that the white man has slaughered all over the Earth with the power of his superior technology. Does the term indians for instance mean anything to those of you on the dark side. If we followed your logic through they would be ethically entitled to slaughting all white men in america as the white man commited a holocost on them and acted like a sub human animal in that instance. We should reserve judgement on any race or individuals until we have all the facts. And we should remember that hating and killing a whole species (or race) including women and children for the actions of one individual or a few is a very quick way to the dark side of the force.
  18. Savle_Sostas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 2
    Some people need to spend more time talking to other people who have different experiences of life rather than typing away on these boards. Slaughter is never justified and thats why its considered a big step on Anakins dark path. Should the innocent be made to pay for the acts of the guilty few? What sort of justice is that? Some of you people make me sick.

    Oh, and I'm damn proud to be a liberal. How proud are you to wear your labels?
  19. DARTH-MUGATU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    The Raiders were a menace to the people of Tatooine. They kill without thought. The Pod race in Episode I. They opened fire on someone for no reason. So no one should cry for a raider. Man or woman. They killed the mother of what will be the most powerfull Jedi ever. Only one conclusion could have come from such an action. Now this isn't about right or wrong. Shmi wasn't just flat out killed. She was held captive, abused most likely and starved. She was dying a slow painfull death. Being in his shoes it's hard not to snap. He's not Ben or Yoda who probably would have just taken her away and left without a trace. It all depends on what you can live with.
  20. Sand Hippie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 2
    This is more than a simple moral dilemma and more than simply what is right and wrong.

    There are a few things that should be taken into account.

    1) As senient and compassionate beings, we feel that killing is wrong. Purely and simply, wrong. Why? Not really sure, it just is. Taking someone's life for no reason other than wanting them to no longer live goes against something. Anakin could have snuck out and cried his eyes out, but he didn't. He exacted revenge and killed them heartlessly, including the women and children who, arguably, had nothing to do with it.

    2) There is a sense of innocence that is lost here. If you take a baby from an evil and heartless family in, wherever, and raise in a loving and stable family, that child will arguably grow up stable and well-rounded. My point? The children in the Tusken Raider camp aren't to blame for anything yet. They play like human children and in a different situation, they might not turn out to be ruthless killers. Killing them is wrong, and Anakin has overstepped an invisible line.

    3) Finally, we have the Jedi notion of controlling anger. Anakin has anger management issues. The perfect Jedi is calm in any situation.

    So, in my own roundabout way, my answer to this debate is "No. Anakin was not, in any way, right to kill those Tusken Raiders excepting those who would hinder his escape or threaten his life directly.

    SH
  21. JOHN6370 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 1
    you are right about the White man taking land, but remember that happened 200+ years ago, but the WHITE man does not go around blowint themself UP......we live in a messed up world...
  22. Savle_Sostas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 2
    I realise he must have snapped and people act irrationally when pushed, but as much as you sympathise with that if you look at it objectively can mass murder of innocent people be justified? Unless of course you're suggesting that the Tuskens took it in turns to get medievil on poor Shmi, so that each and every one played a small part in her death. The point of the scene is that Anakin seeks violent retribution on the blameless, thts why he breaks down in front of Padme, even he finds that hard to live with.

    And there's also some flawed ogic going on, you mention that a Tusken took a pot shot at competitiors in the pod race in TPM. Fine, but should an entire race be made to pay for the crimes committed by one person? And think before you answer. Would genocide of the Tuskens be justified just because some of their number were lawless?
  23. Jedi_Rabi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    For the guy who compares killing Tusken Raiders to killing terrorists: You need to switch to decaf!

    No way was he justified. A jedi uses his sabre only for defense, not attack.

    Anakin could have easily slipped out unawares.

    The dillema was how GL presented it. Ani put himself in that position. He was never even supposed to go to Tatooine in the first place. This is why Jedi cut off all ties. To prevent themselves from being exposed to this type of scenarios.

    Like when Ani sees Watto again. The first thing he mentions is if Ani could use his Jedi powers to shake up some dead beats that owe Watto money.

    Also, the scene was right of the Western "The Searches" (I think thats the name, correct if wrong). The sandpeople are Native Americans and the Lars are Western Settlers. For all we know, the Lars invaded the Tusken Raiders land!!
  24. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    Since no one is actually linking the discussion happening here: Answer the Question: So what path should Anakin have taken/done when his mother died?? ...


    I thought I would re-post my message too! Here goes:

    I think this scene made the entire first two films worth it. It was the only story-line I cared about in the first film - his separation from his mother, and what ramifications it would have for him.

    On to your posting: The scene is so troubling because, obviously, everyone has a different impression of what they would have done at the point of her death.

    Some here seem to say that they would kill. But even the women and children? For me that's too much! Killing innocents? Even among a tribe of sandpeople there are innocents! Why didn't he only kill the leader of the tribe. The "local" mastermind of his mother's death?

    BTW, I don't think fans saying they would kill in his situation is a good idea. In our world, it is a completely illegal and over the top reaction. We shouldn't ever put ourselves in his position. We are, or at least I am, talking about fiction. All of my observations are about "the fiction." I don't personally believe killing is ever justified. So when people claim they would kill, I would be forewarned in drawing parallels to our place and time!

    However, I'll tell you below why killing -even in this other universe far, far away - was completely wrongheaded!

    Others say outright that any such violence is over the top - even within our own conception of morality. True. This wasn't self-defense.

    But then there is the morality of this galaxy far, far away. And what is that morality? There are two moralities at stake here. The jedi moral codes and the general moral code for all humanoids...

    Anakin definately did what Luke did not. He took the step through which "hate" leads to the dark side. This experience will be a scar in his memory for time to come. Once he took this immoral step, at least in our world, Anakin would tend to self-justify or attempt to block it out...but we tend to believe he will never really will be able to! Only through rehabilitation would he overcome the blow it causes to him. That is our Planet earth analysis. And there is no confession to anyone but Padme! The Jedi would be appalled.

    But there is a difference in the morality of this other galaxy. I was always troubled about the way that Qui-Gon just "took" Anakin without taking or freeing his mother.

    Both of them were slaves, and in this galaxy far, far away, I couldn't believe that slavery was acceptable - with all their technology and "higher order" beings. Slavery?!!!

    Anakin seemed happy fixing things and living with his mother on Tatooine. But he was still a slave! Horrible! That meant that he could be sold and seperated from her at any time. She must have been his entire world of comfort and safety! And the Jedi seemed not to take notice at all. That's what really irked me. They gave some reason about being in the "province of the Hutts outside the Republican control." SO? This was the morality of the jedi mixed with the morality of their universe as it stood.

    And the impact of Anakin's background? Even a psychologist of our world would wonder if Anakin wouldn't be impacted by the fact that he spent the first few years of his life as a slave. Even if Anakin "seemed" happy, that didn't mean that his mind wasn't suffering daily challenges and vicissitudes that he had to absorb and that harmed him for life!! So we are dealing with a vastly different morality here in this other galaxy!

    In Tibetan Buddhism, where children who are believed to be reincarnated holy men are taken from their parents in the same way as Anakin (I'm sure that's where GL got this idea BTW), the parents are threafter cared for by the monks. The parents get a stipend or something. After all, being the parents of young holy men is great accomplishment! It deserves presents and gifts.

    In GL's universe, the Jedi not only didn'
  25. Savle_Sostas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 2
    No JOHN6370 the "white man", as you put it, may not go around blowing himself up, but he does blow up a good proportion of other beings and a sizable chunk of the world. The greatest catastrophes known to mankind were largley instigated by the "white man", i.e. WWI and WWII.
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