Anakin was right to kill the Tusken Raiders!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Duckman, May 20, 2002.

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  1. GS335 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    Killing is not only wrong, it is APPAULING! Getting revenge on the people who killed a loved wrong is just as appauling. What Anakin did was wrong, period! There is no way around it, and it is quite useless to argue against this.

    Yes, it was understandable that he lost control, and yes, I did feel sorry for him, when he lost his mother. Anakin is like a lost soul, and is a conflicted individual. However, it still does not justify him killing all of those people. Two wrongs never make a right, and this scenerio just proved that Anakin was no better than the people who brutally killed Shmi.

    This scene is the beginning of Anakin's descent into evil. From watching episode one, you know that Anakin was worried about his mother, and had fear. From that, you knew that something bad was going to happen to Shmi, and Anakin was going to do something horrific as a result. Well, it happened in AOTC.

    Lucas said that Anakin's mother and girlfriend play a huge part in his downfall. He can't let them go. Those obsessive feelings is what makes one greedy, and greed is of the darkside.

    From this, you can definately conclude that something bad is going to happen with Padme, and it will be the thing that will completely drive Anakin over the edge, and into the hands of Palpatine. I don't know if Padme will die, but I definately think that something bad will happen to Padme, and it will cause Anakin to fully go astray. In AOTC, there is some humanity left, even though the darkside is growing in him. In episode three, he will completely lose his humanity, and become "fully" evil.


    Why do you think that Obi Wan kept saying that darth vader betrayed and murdered Luke's father, from a certain point of view? Why do you think that Obi Wan kept saying that Anakin was "dead?" If you look at it, he really was dead in the OT. It just makes it so amazing, that Luke is able to save his father from darkness.
  2. Jedi_Rabi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    DArth pooh: Good post. That whole scene has so much impact b/c it is set up by TPM.
  3. DARTH-MUGATU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    The pod race example I gave was just to give an example of the Random Acts of violence that is common among raiders. It wasn't a call to genocide. Is it right to kill a tribe of raiders? Or 'THAT' particular tribe of Raiders? Depends. I say Yes. They captured Shmi- killed almost 40 people in the search party who went out looking for her. That's a high body count however way you look at it. Like I said, it depends on what you can live with.
  4. barnsthefatjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2001
    star 5
    I would have done exactly the same as Anakin if I had been in his situation.
  5. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    Fear lead to Anger

    Anger leads to hatered

    Hatred leads to suffering.

    ---------------

    Anakin's lust for revenge lead him to kill everyone - even the innocent. But it didn't bring his mother back. It didn't soothe the pain he felt. All it did was to increase his suffering because part of him knew that what he did was wrong.

    With all the Revenge Fantasies we've see on screen over the years (Rambo, Red Dawn, Mad Max....) this is the first time that the person taking revenge was clearly shown to have 'gone too far'. And the first time we've seen on screen how empty and hollow revenge really is.


  6. Jar Jar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 1998
    star 4
    I find the film to be chocked full of irony for two quotes that dawned on me:

    "Attachment is forbidden, Possesion is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a Jedi's life, so you might say that we are encouraged to love."

    ****

    "Not just the men, but the women and the children. They're like animals, so I slaughtered them like animals! I hate them!"


    Just putting those two quotes together, you realize that Anakin's actions betray the Jedi order and are evil. In the novelization, as he kills the tuskens he does not tire but instead gains more and more power and speed. He feels incredible power from the force, and I think it is easy to tell that this is not the light side.

    His actions are evil, make no mistake about it.

  7. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    Barnsthefatjedi wrote:
    "I would have done exactly the same as Anakin if I had been in his situation."

    To that I say if you would then you would either spend the rest of your life emotionally regretting it, or you would be even worse off - in a state of evil mindedness for the rest of your life. Remaining twisted. It would mess one up. Just like it is messing up Anakin. Not only was it the wrong thing to do - it was wrong for his well-being in terms of his own happiness - the only "help" he got from it was a 10 minute release of rage. But now he is in need of pyschological help.


  8. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    Butler wrote:

    "Duckman, I do agree that the Tusken were animals. Barbarians. Still, we don't kill baby animals either."

    To that I say are you familiar with what goes on in the meat industry? Without going into what they count as acceptible number of deaths regardless of age - even babies, millions of veal calfs are slaughtered - who are children.

    This is not to start an animal rights debate - but just to show that our society is not doing as you say.


    Other note:

    Anakin knew afterwards that what he did was wrong - the novel makes this even more clear. He knows that the children and women were not fighters. And they were running for cover, not fighting back. Afterwards it causes him grief. He does not want to lose control like this.
  9. barnsthefatjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2001
    star 5
    Be that as it may, Gem, I still would have done it. It's easy to be rational and think logically about whether or not what Anakin did was right or wrong. However, if you truly empathise with Anakin's situation, it is not hard in the slightest to understand why he did it. The tusken raiders deserved to die.

    Think about it: these savages kidnap your mother. Your mother. Then they torture her for a month which results in her death. How dare they treat her like that? They showed her no mercy, no consideration to the fact that she was a helpless innocent woman. Why should you show them any?

    I would have exterminated them all with extreme prejudice.
  10. Corusca-Gem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    barnsthefatjedi wrote:

    "Think about it: these savages kidnap your mother. Your mother. Then they torture her for a month which results in her death. How dare they treat her like that? They showed her no mercy, no consideration to the fact that she was a helpless innocent woman. Why should you show them any?"



    You should show them mercy because not only is it the right thing to do, but because it is in your own self interest to not lived a tortured life after you realized you killed innocent bystanders.
    It is also in your family's best interest to not have you all messed up, going to jail, etc. I mean if this happened to your mother, and then you went it did this on Earth, then your father would be without you while you rot in jail. Gee - that would help him and the rest of your family in their time of greiving and beyond. Instead of being there to support them they would be mourning for you as well.
    To kill innocent children and women would be a dishonor in my opinion to a mother's memory. She would want what is best for you, not for you to rot in jail being miserable. Oh but wait, you could be happy that you got revenge. Yea right. Another note is that people who kill for reasons society accepts as correct still can suffer tremendous guilt from it, even though they had no idea that they would if you would asked them earlier.
    Another reason to show them mercy is to not let them turn you into something that you are not, to bring you down to a lower level.

    As far as what I would do, I am not going to sit here and tell you, because I do not know for certain exactly what I would do unless I was in that situation. I know what I hope I would do though. Anyone telling you exactly what they would do is discounting the emotion of the moment. Sorrow, hatred, fear, anger, thoughts at the time, etc. all play into this. I can understand the desire for revenge, and I would want the ones who did this stopped from doing this ever again, but I would hope that I wouldn't do what he did. Though I do think that the rage I would feel would be unimaginable to me now.

    Also you are assuming that the women and children are not innocent bystanders. Look at places on Earth, like Afganistan. If the women didn't do as they were told, they would have acid thwon on their faces, or worse, public execution. How do you know the Tuskins were not cruel to the women to keep them in line? Mabye they didn't want to be there, but were afraid for their lives to leave. Anakin's own guilt shows he knows he should not have done this.

    Who knows Barns, perhaps this happening to you would have a different effect than you think. Knowing that you would never want to murder an innocent, as then how could you be differenciated from those who killed your mother?
  11. Derrinson Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2002
    I don't want to knock this thread off-course, but I was wondering if anyone could clear up a few questions for me: is the Dark Side influence simply being used as an excuse for Anakin's actions? It is supposed to be viewed as wrong, but there is still a great deal of sympathy for the character. True, the Dark Side consumes a man, but is there a point at which Anakin's actions would not be his own? Or would Anakin the MAN have taken the same course of action, Force or no Force? And would he be viewed any differently for it?
  12. pheenix11 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    Anyone who could walk in that tent, find their mother dead & then leave without hurting anyone is THE ONE with something wrong in my mind.

    What kind of cold, calculating thought process is this? Your mother is dead, but you are going to go one by one down a list of reasons why it is illogical to exact revenge?

    Anyone who says they could do this is a liar.

    And if you really could, then you are not human.

    The Tuskens asked for what happened to them. And every single one of them in that cammp was an accomplice to the torture they subjected Anakin's mother to.

    WHY is there a distinction made for women & children?

    Hell, for all we know Schmi could have been kidnapped by the Tusken children as a plaything.

    She could have been captured by the Tusken woman.

    HOW do you know, it was the men who captured her?

    And why after kidnapping someone & killing 40 people in a search party do they not deserve to die?

    People who commit evil acts deserve whatever they get.

    The Tuskens got what was coming to them.

    Maybe next time, they won't kidnap anyone.
  13. Charlie_Martel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 4
    Tuskens are barbarians. They do nothing besides steal, pillage, and murder. But, killing the women and children is a little too much...

    Kill all of the males and they won't breed anymore :)
  14. Jedi-Knight85 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    hmm im thinking no as to it being justified...i mean look at it...jedi are supposed to use their l337 skills only for defense or something part of an assignment...but anakin...anakin went ape and killed the men...the women...and even the children...it wouldn't be half as bad if he had only killed like...2 tuskin people at the door and left...but noooo..that kid is messed up
  15. Darth_LoCo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    While I feel sympathy for Anakin and can totally understand him maybe killing the first couple Tusken Raiders he meets, I cannot justify his actions of killing all of them, then bragging about it.

    What is unfortunate here is that GL left this open to any interpretation. If he'd shown more of the Tusken slaughter, I doubt many people would be saying it was "justified." By cutting the scene short, he took away a lot of the power of it, IMHO.
  16. K2Grey Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    I agree, if Anakin had just axed the two at the door and anyone who got in his way, it would have been okay.

    However, whacking up everyone is quite excessive. Normally, you'd have to worry about getting hit in the back if you just killed two, but Anakin after all is a Jedi and he has a lightsaber, and both of them together make it much safer for him to just stalk away without more killings.
  17. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    Would the Females and the children have survived? Maybe Anakin knew this and was saving them from suffering more!
  18. Darth Kruel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    He was in pain. In deep pain. Anakin did what any of you would have done if that would've been your loved one. There's no telling which Sandpeople kidnapped Shmi, hurt her like that, and held her captive. He was justified and 100% correct in murdering any Tuskin Raider in the village. If the ones who had nothing to do with kidnapping didn't try to rescue Shmi and set things aright, then they are ALL equally responsible for her death. Anakin was correct to kill them all, to slaughter them all, to kill them all, to hurt them all.

    I hate them!

    I hate them!

    I hate them!

    Way to go, Anakin!
  19. pheenix11 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    Exactly!

    Every Tusken in that camp was guilty of murder.

    And as far as the women & children.

    How do you think Tusken's grow up to be so evil? I'm sure the children aren't exactly honor roll students. They are probably vicious little versions of their parents who would cut your throat if they had the chance.
  20. Darth Kruel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    The Tuskin Raiders seem either ignorant or beastly, like they can't get along with other lifeforms and they seem to do it deliberately and for no reason.

    Anakin did the right thing by unleashing the dark side on them!!!
  21. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    phoenix, exactly...

    but could we make this generalization about precolonial natives? Vikings? Are they really that evil and unhuman?
  22. Charlemagne Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 1999
    star 4
    This is why I believe the Trilogy as a tragedy works so well.

    We have been asked to look at Anakin Skywalker and say "Here is a man who is evil but really what is evil and how did he get here and are we supposed to hate him for it?"

    Anakin killed innocent people and did evil actions but he did no worse in my mind than the Tuskens he killed...or less.

    He was temporarely insane but then he also crossed a line that made that next kill easier.

  23. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    That's why this country is in the shape it's in now. What Anakin did was totally justified. Sometimes anger is necessary when all that is right has gone wrong. Like the good ol' USA! Not that it ever was truly right to begin with. But now the true evil is setting in. You think it's an accident that this film is coming out and it's central plot revolves around the fall of the Republic? Just as this country's befuddled ways are beginning to crumble all around. Now they say the gov't knew of the 9/11 attacks beforehand. Give me a break! I work in a job where I'm surrounded by nothing but Mexicans all day working for low pay and then taking back to Mexico and doubling it and then bringing MORE family back here to take up jobs that could go to a born citizen of this country. They all work two or three jobs each, save up and take it back home to get rich and retire by the time they are 30. It's sickening. And then they laugh at us Americans and treat us with NO respect. I guess not. If I could just go to another country and clean up and great rich with little or no education when I know their own citizens can't I'd laugh at them too. We're suckers, and until we get a lock on who we let into this country....we are a doomed bunch! Cheney says today, "We will have another attack. We just don't when. Be prepared." Our system is a joke and we are headed towards a dictatorship. Just like in Star Wars. Better wake up and smell what's next to you. GL is giving us the truth in our laps! PEACE AND HAIRGREASE.
  24. Savle_Sostas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 2
    Can I just congratulate Charlemagne on a point very well made! Anakin reacted to the moment. People have posted on this board saying that they know they would react in the same way, they would resort to mass murder. If these people know that they would resort to this then they have serious problems and need to seek help. What makes Anakin humane is that he reacted. I don't believe he knew he'd react in that manner, indeed his training should have made himreact differently. He had a sudden and temporary loss of control. People on this thread are posting that they are prepared to murder in their thrist for revenge. Killing is never justified but some times it is understandable. If you plan and execute a murder then it is not understandable.

    I swear that the thoughts of some in this thread scare me like nothing I've ever heard before. The point of the Tusken slaughter scene is that it demonstrates where Anakin goes to far. His actions go way beyond exacing justice. You don't kill people for no reason despite what crimes you may think they have committed. The Tuskens may be riotous and some of them were callous murderers, but I'm willing to bet some weren't. All beings have a right to life and freedom from arbitrary punishment, or do we not believe in democratic values anymore?
  25. Darth Kruel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    "You don't kill people for no reason despite what crimes you may think they have committed. The Tuskens may be riotous and some of them were callous murderers, but I'm willing to bet some weren't. All beings have a right to life and freedom from arbitrary punishment, or do we not believe in democratic values anymore?"


    Hold it right there...

    You even said it. Some of the Sandpeople were callous murderers. Yes, all beings have a right to life and freedom from arbitrary punishment. However, to kill a woman like that....especially an aged defensless woman like Shmi was dead wrong, foul, and reprobate. It was totally ill. She was someone's mother. You can't let stuff like that slide. When they killed Shmi, they automatically forfeited their right to live because they killed an totally innocent, sweet loving person who couldn't hurt a fly, someone who would never put their hands on anyone.

    Anakin set them straight. The other Tuskins who had nothing to do it paid for it just for being affiliated.





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