Anakin, you idiot!

I have recently become interested in how far Anakin's behaviour mirrors the change of the Force. I know everything is made of midi whatsits but since Anakin has a huge concentration surely he would be influenced by the clouding of the Force by the Dark Side? So as the dark side becomes more and more clouded so does Anakin. I think Mace alludes to this when he says to him before they go to the Chancellor "Much fear clouds your judgement." Is that because he is as clouded by the dark side as the "real" Force?

So as the Force is out of balance so is Anakin.

Well it sounded better in my head than it does on paper, maybe I need to refine this idea a bit

 

IMO, Anakin already kenw the truth of the war and Palp's role in manipulating it and everyone involved. But after helping Palp kill Mace, and pledging himself to the Sith, he couldn't go back. Killing the Separatists was just part of embracing the DS, harnessing it's power; by the end of the slaughter there Ani has been totally taken by the DS, as evidenced by the old yellow eye look.

But the assignment to kill the Separatists did have meaning for one person, Palpy. The heads of all those companies and clans are gone, leaving their resources at his (and the Empire's) disposal. And his new apprentice has not only gone too far down the DS trail to come back, he's also the fall guy for two massacres, leaving Palp with clean hands. That's another thing Anakin could've spent one second thinking about; he's the one doing all the killing while his master remains the helpless victim of a Jedi plot.

 

"Luke and Leia are like the anti-Anakin and anti-Padme respectively"

what??? the twins are exactly like their parents...the only difference is they don't have the puppet master manipulating their every move towards his own ends.

 

Faith, logic, emotions & Jedi: I think what is needed is a balance between heart and mind. Emotions are important and can be vital messengers contradicting what seems logical but is actually wrong or dangerous even. But you need to understand where your emotions are coming from, ie, motive. Faith is not an exercise in logic winning over emotions, rather the meeting and balancing of the two.

Yet, Luke makes a more rational and logical decision, which leads him to becoming a Jedi. Same with Obi-wan. Same with Anakin in the end. Being lead by your emotions is the problem. The Jedi don't forbid emotions, they forbid being controlled by them. A Jedi can feel fear, but they must let that fear go. They cannot let that fear control their actions and that's what Anakin did.

And attachments I don't feel are a problem in themselves - desire and desire to possess, those are the problem areas. One cannot go through life without forming attachments (unless you're General Grievous!), but how you conduct yourself in response to those attachments is what counts. As a wise woman (my mother) once said to me, you cannot control your emotions, but you can attempt to control the behaviour that results from your emotions.

You can have relationships. Jedi aren't forbidden from that. They are forbidden from becoming attached to people, things and situations. Anakin could be friends with Palpatine and could love Padme. He just could not be attached to them. He could not put himself over them. With Palpatine, he was choosing his friendship over his duty and that was wrong. With Padme he didn't want to accept that she might die. Because he was selfish and possessive, he wound up making things worse. Anakin wanted things to stay as they are and that's not what life if about. He was so attached to the way the world was at the start of ROTS, that once things began to change, his fears took over and lead him down a path that Padme would never travel.

 

I don't disagree with many of the things you say, darth-sinister, but I don't think Luke's decision to become a jedi was based on logic - he was effectively pushed in that direction. Luke initially turns down Obiwan's call to him based on the logic and rationale of having to stay on the farm - an admirable display of duty, but based on his head rather than the pull that was obiviously inside him to join Kenobi. But when he finds that his aunt and uncle have been murdered, then the 'obstacles' to following the call (no offence Beru & Owen) have been removed. The call of the hero's journey had won.

Apparent logic can be just as misleading as strong emotion - our thought processes, our ears and our eyes can all deceive us.

 

I think the Dark Side makes you stupid or something. Or just extremely gullible.

 

True!

 

Apparent logic can be just as misleading as strong emotion - our thought processes, our ears and our eyes can all deceive us.


Which is exactly why logic is no sure fire guarantee to self-realization. There are a few in my family who are into spiritual self-realization and they have told me that logic is not the way to such a path.

Why is it that a Jedi always asks another to "search your feelings", instead of using the mind or logic?

 

Obi-wan is told to search his feelings by Yoda, because he already knows how to find Anakin. Obi-wan thinks that he cannot find Anakin, but he already knows that there is one other besides Palpatine who knows where he is. But he is not thinking calmly and rationally. He's still upset that Anakin has betrayed him and now he has to go kill him. Yoda knows what he knows. He wants Obi-wan to remember that. Luke is told to search his feelings to know whether Vader's lying or not, which he does. But he still does not believe it's true. Luke then tells Vader to search his feelings, for he already knows the answer.

When one is in an emotional state, they cannot use logic and reasoning. They must calm themselves and look inside, for the answers are already there. They already know what to do, but when Anakin's in such an emotional state, he cannot bring himself to search his feelings.

Obi-wan also tells Luke that his feelings do him credit, but they can be used against him by Palpatine. So he needs to bury his feelings deep down. Luke does that, but then Vader finds out about Leia and uses it against him to provoke an attack. Fear grips the heart and takes control. Anger and hate follow quickly.

 

Luke was I believe about the same age as his father when Anakin made the fateful decision to follow the Dark Side.

Luke was more grounded, more mature than his father. I can see Padme in Luke as well as his father.

Luke was tempted but unlike his father he was not seduced by the Dark Side.

Vader saw this and just had to think about his mistakes.

Did Vader finally realize in those moments when Luke rejected Sidious and the DarkSide that he had been wrong all along?

Or during all those long years did Vader realize his mistakes and refused to admit to himself he was wrong?

Anakin/Vader's pride was his downfall.

It almost appears he was destined to fall.

What a tragic character Anakin Skywalker is.

 

a sith doesnt know "resentment" too well.after he turned there is no reason for him to stick in the past,she is dead and for his fault,from his twisted POV the better he can do is move along,especiall when he becomes the center of so much attention.however that doesnt mean that he "never loved her" if thats what you are trying to say

 

Skywalker's love for Padme was a selfish love. At an early age he became obsessed with Amidala and through time the obsession grew.

As Anakin became Vader and embraced the Dark Side, he fooled himself. It was not for love of Padme, but for love of power.

He had always wanted more! He confessed that to Padme.

See how quickly Vader turned against Amidala on Mustafar.

Its a shame that Padme did not fall in love with someone else. She deserved far better.

 

it was love nontheless and you wont convince me otherwise

after he turned,give the guy some credit

so do i

cant refute that

exactly vader,dark lord of the sith,did that.

well.thats how love is,she loved anakin,not someone else

 

Anakin...a tragic character? He is a kid who made a choice. The wrong choice based on mis-information, but a choice. He didn't really love Padme. He wanted her. He needed to possess her. She was his obsession. Thats not love. He desired power and control. And if he couldn't control you, he destroyed you.

 

were you talking to me ??

 

No, sir...making a general comment about the subject matter, of course my own opinion. You disagree...right?

 

no.i only disagree to an exent.im not one of those fans of anakin who make excuses for his bad choices but...dont you think that palpatine playing puppet master had a lot to do with it ?? his choices or not having a guy like that twisting your mind for a decade cant help much...

 

If you fairly divide the "responsiblity" it should be Palpatine, the Jedi and Anakin.

Li' Ani had one of the finest support groups "in town". But because he didn't get what he wanted, when he wanted it... he listened to Palpatine. The Jedi lost Anakin because they didn't talk to him. How can you reasonable assign a title of great importance...then give that "Chosen One" over to an untried Jedi Knight (EP II). Granted we all like Obi-1. He's a nice guy. Seems fair, reasonable to a point. But again, he talks. He doesn't listen. He doesn't ask why, when Anakin brings up those...uncertain questions. And, dude... where's the love? Never saw it until the opening sequences of EP III. Never got the feeling that these two ever really liked eachother. Ya, I read the books... it's there...sort of, but lacking. Yoda...clueless. Anakin...The Chosen One comes to him to talk about dreams (Padme's death)...he preaches Dogma... This is the "savior-of-sorts" ...reality check needed.

Palpatine....ppppeeeerrrfect.... who could have thought that such evil could be so applauded...

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And, dude... where's the love? Never saw it until the opening sequences of EP III

i did.the entire episode II was about it

 

Gotta disagree. Opening sequence, elevator. Definate Boss/employee mentality. If Obi-1 doesn't know Ani got a hankering for Padme...then he's blind. But we can see it clear as the nose on your face. Obi-1 is lecturing Anakin (in front of Padame)... Ankain defeated (verbally) by Obi-1 and put in his place.

Second...I'm not a guy. But guys rough-house, they slap eachother on the back, shake hands, pat shoulders, nudge...guy-things... these two never touched eachother through the whole film...except... in the area Anakin helps Obi-1 on the rhino-thing and Obi-1 helps Anakin up after loosing his arm... Oh... and Padme runs in and throws her arms around Anakin... (gee, clueless Obi-1 and Yoda - this time).

Jedi equal Clueless.

I don't see a real relationship between these two father/son...brother/brother until racing through the star to get the "captured" Palpatine. Then it classic...

 

i think i misunderstood your previous post.i thought you were talking about and i was talking about anakin/padme

 

Cool...maybe another time.

 

Oh, yes. It was love. But it was the wrong type of love that he had. The possessive, obsessive love that Anakin felt was too dangerous. He didn't love compassionately.

 

I would say it started out as love but became twisted into coveting, wanting somehting for oneself out of fear and pride. Had it just been love, he would have realised that helping Sidious was the wrong thing to do. Instead, he didn't care, about right/wrong, only getting what he wanted/needed. That Padme would rather die than help Palpatine was irrelevant to Anakin.

 

I'd go along with fascination. Anakin was initially fascinated by her. I can live with that. EP II was his realization of the "dream", the "fantasy". She was real. But did he really love her? No. Agree - he wanted her, wanted to control her, needed his own cheering crowd. Boy did he pick wrong. She was a strong woman. Strong beliefs and motivation. And he didn't listen to anyone but Palps. If he'd have listened...to Obi-1 or Padme. The line in EP III says it all... On the balcony, she asks him "When are we going to trust one another." How can you have a realationship...or love someone if you don't trust them?

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