Anakin's force push against Kenobi.

Whilst the key to victory in lightsaber combat should come through the force, there are obviously more blatant ways to tap its power.

It seems to me that Anakin's attempt to push Kenobi only to be thrown back himself showed that they were around equal in raw force power when Anakin could jettison the Jedi restraints (in the movie he tells Padme that he has new powers).

In Episode 1 however, a blood sample suggests that Anakin would have had a higher command of the force.

I am now quite certain that this test was inaccurate.

Is there anything about it in the EU?

 

It's not just biology. IMO, ROTS clearly demonstrates that command of the Force is primarily mental. You can have all the potential in the universe, but if you're not mentally disciplined, you're not going to be at your peak. Obviously, there's exceptions to this (Sidious vs. Jedi Masters, or Anakin vs. Dooku) but for the most part, a more experienced/disciplined Force user is going to be able to hold his own at the very least.

Plus of course, Obi-Wan initiates the push to begin with; Anakin counters.

 

Lucas ruined Darth Vader by toning down how bad he owned Kenobi on Mustafar.
No way Kenobi had the strength to hold off Darth Vader. Not based on the films, anyways.

A. Because he had more midichlorians per cell.
B. Because he was tapping into his emotions and the darkside.
C. Time and again the movies showed Kenobi to be lucky, not powerful.
D. If he was considered by Mace and Co. to be the most powerul Jedi, then how much stronger would he have been as a Sith?


Lucas not only dropped the ball on this one, he ran backwards after making them equals.

 

C. Time and again the movies showed Kenobi to be lucky, not powerful.


Yes, but that was Lucas' intention all along.

 

Yea Lucas doesn't really know what he's talking about. The whole saga preaches about how the darkside is stronger but it will corrupt. Anakin is unleashing his emotions and becomming one with the darkside yet Lucas blames his defeat on not being able to control his emotions. I guess it's become Obi Wan was more concentrated on the force when all Anakin cared about was killing Obi Wan.

 

Especially strange after Dooku owned Obi-Wan with his force push. Maybe Anakin wasn't tapping into his darkside force powers correctly or something, it's not like Palpatine gav him any lessons.

 

But my point was that luck doesn't measure up to a Force Push and shouldn't be a factor when its power against power. We were told AnaVader had more of it, yet (once again) he was outperformed onscreen by a lesser, lucky Jedi. In the first round of shooting, that wasn't the case. When Lucas minimized Vader's talents, he ruined the showdown in ROTS. I would rather have seen Kenobi's luck take center stage at the end of their duel than AnaVader's (creator-imposed) failed leap-attack. But that's just me.

***

How could Dooku send Anakin and Kenobi sprawling with force pushes, but the DarkSide empowered AnaVader couldn't? What transpired in battle, doesn't match with what we were told throughout the entire saga.

 

In a way it was a bit from both worlds.I totally agree that Anakin was completely toned down and underrated, but his fate was somewhat because of Obi Wan's luck. Obi Wan is lucky to land right on the 'high ground' and is lucky enough that Vader would jump straight at him, so determined to kill Obi wan that he isn't focusing on defending himself. Plus it's lucky for Obi Wan that Anakin falls right to the edge of the bank and burns

 

Yet, it was Kenobi who was on the lower end of the "high-ground" against Maul and the Battle-droid on the stairs in GG's quarters... not to mention when he was hanging onto the edge of the platform when the Droid General was closing in. (In that scene, his luck was quite evident when he pulled the blaster to his hand... and it was well done)

Kenobi's high-ground quote seemed out of place to me then, and its even worse now.

 

Uh, let's clear something up. First off, Obi-wan was going for the Force shove first. Anakin countered with his own, because he knew Obi-wan well enough to know that he would do that in battle. Remember, they've trained together for 13 years. They know each other's moves. Anakin and Obi-wan both went flying as Anakin had to get up and jump across the conference table, where Obi-wan had landed on the opposite side. Dooku got away with his Force shove on Obi-wan, because he did not know Dooku. Dooku could surprise him.

Second, Anakin had to use his emotions, but he also had to control those very emotions and not be controlled by them. Anger is a good weapon, but it can be turned against you. That is why you never fight angry, because you will wind up losing control and it will not go well for you. Anakin loses because he doesn't control his anger and channel it properly, like the other Sith have. That is why in the OT as Vader, he keeps a tight leash on his anger to the best of his ability.

 

Obi-Wan is also more experienced.

 

Anakin was using pure aggression whereas Kenobi was using defense. Anakin was not as strong as he thought he was. Even if he was growing with strength in the dark side, it doesn't mean he was a stronger Force user in general. The dark side does not make one stronger.

 

Kenobi was not as strong as Anakin.

 

"This Obi-Wan says he belongs to you."
"I can't remember ever owning an Obi-Wan."

 

You seem to underestimate Kenobi. He is in no way the lesser Jedi, he didn't fall to the Dark Side

 

Less midichlorians = lesser Jedi.
Turn to the darkside = idiot Jedi.

 

I am usually the one who points out that mentality is part of a fighter, but I just thought that if there was ever a great opportunity to show who had the superior force power, this was it.

Perhaps Kenobi should have been thrown back with Anakin remaining in position.

I do not believe that experience had much to do with something like a raw force push.

Perhaps this will lead to an EU writer trying to describe the force in intricate detail.

 

QFT.

 

I didn't get that at all from that scene, if anything all that conveyed was how familiar they were to each other even in combat. They went for the same moves constantly in that battle and the force push was just another of them.

As for the EU, no, in the EU Anakin is still viewed as being the strongest Jedi, and the midi count is never even brought up.

 

Midi's = rubbish.

 

SithStarSlayer hit it right on the mark

Lucas didnt correctly display Anakin's power..

In the video game we see Anakin lifting concrete monuments with the force..(much more impressive than a pod)

we see him jumping outta vehicles in the air,jumping half a football field, impressive acrobatics on invisible hand and mustafar

his speed with a saber also seemed even much more advanced than Master Windu

 

It's not any more impressive given that 'size matters not.'

Which Kenobi effectively does when the droid he's hanging onto is destroyed.

It's an impressive jump, but I think 'half a football field' is an exaggeration.

Which Kenobi displays as well.

Canon statements > Bad Choreography.

 

Again, why does Lucas have to display Anakin as uber powerful, when that's not even what the story is about. The story is about how Anakin wanted power, but because he took the quick and easy path, he wound up paying for it.

 

so ur tellin me that sidious didnt display his force strength by slingin senate pods..since size matters not

 

Thank you.

No, no he did not.

Tell that to Lucas. He's the one who made "Vader's power" a subplot in the saga.

No. That's what Lucas tried to turn it into and failed miserably at it.
Let's look at it from the beginning, shall we?

Star Wars:

BEN
Remember, a Jedi can feel The Force flowing from him.

LUKE
You mean that it controls your actions?

BEN
Partially, but it also obeys your commands.

***
And in TPM we were told that midichlorians were what ENABLED a Jedi to use and hear the Force. We also were told that Anakin had more than any other Jedi. He had more of what controls the Force, that being said, he should have had more of the Force at his disposal...
***

From the EU via the NEC:

In the waning days of the Republic, Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn discovered a young slave boy named Anakin Skywalker on the desert planet of Tatooine. Jinn believed the boy could be the Chosen One himself, due to his extraordinary ability with the Force?brought on by his unusually high midi-chlorian count of over twenty thousand?and his apparent virgin birth by Shmi Skywalker.

Although Anakin Skywalker's powers grew as the years passed, he began a slow but irrevocable slide towards the dark side of the Force, in part due to the increasing influence of Supreme Chancellor Palpatine; someone Anakin thought of as a friend and mentor.

***

Key parts for me were "young Anakin's extraordinary abilities" and "Anakin's powers grew as the years passed."

See, IMO the whole saga is ALL about power and who has it.
And in ROTS, that THEME runs rampant. Here are just a few:

"My powers have doubled since the last time..."
"Soon I will have a new apprentice . . . one far younger and more powerful."
"The Senate is expected to vote more executive powers to the Chancellor today."
"The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power."
"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful..."
"Is it possible to learn this power?"
"They know your power will be too strong to control."
"Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi."
"Know the power of the dark side."
"The power to save Padme."
"He won't give up his power."
"Master, the Chancellor is very powerful."
"POWER!!! Unlimited POWER!!!"
"The power to cheat death..."
"Love won't save you Padme, only my newfound powers..."
"You underestimate my POWER!!"


Power is what its all about.