PT Anakin's Nightmare of Padme's death

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Drewdude91, Jul 8, 2011.

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  1. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    Was it a vision, a mere dream, or was Palpatine using the force to influence his dreams. I think the latter.
  2. BigBoy29 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2004
    star 3
    Little boy Anakin Skywalker had the vision about Qui Gon "freeing" him when they met.

    Skywalker seems to be able to predict stuff on his own. The wonder boy is real savvy with the force midis.

    So I would venture to say the dreams and premonitions were on his own. Palps might have been working some ESP to "read" what was in Skywalker's mind - but doubtful he could work some DiCaprio "Inception" magic.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I found it extremely coincidental and far too convenient that Anakin had a nightmare about Padme's death and within a few days, Palpatine was offering him the power to stop death, the power that he could not possibly learn unless he joined the Sith.

    Making the situation even more convenient and coincidental was the fact that Palpatine knew what happened to Shmi, and most likely knew that Anakin had dreamed about her death as well.

    I think that Palpatine sent Anakin the dream, although it is possible that he just sensed through the Force that Anakin was having it. The latter possibility, however...again, very convenient.
  4. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    Personally I think Palpatine didn't need to create the dream. Padme does, after all, die similarly to how it is seen in the nightmare, so it makes sense that Anakin would have a premonition about it. Unless of course you think Palpatine knew for a fact that she was going to die, and thus created the dream... but that doesn't fully make sense to me.
  5. Obi-WanLikeaBoss Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2011
    It's called a self fufilling prophecy. He dreamed about her dying, panicked, let his fear take over, allowing Palpatine, who has been watching him, and can sense his fear, and has guessed about Padme, to twist and manipulate him. He then turns to the Dark side, force chokes Padme, which combined with her broken heart, kills her.
    Had he ignored it, it probably would have never come true.
  6. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I very much doubt that it was simply a dream since Anakin explicitly mentions they were just like the ones he had about his mother (which turned out all too true). As for whether or not they were sent by Palpatine or merely visions, one fact that supports Palpatine having a hand in them is the fact that he even knows about them to begin with. Then again, from what we saw in ROTJ, Palpatine can predict the future to a degree, so he may simply be attuned to this possibility. I think it's highly likely though, that at least some of the dream was due to Dark Side influence combined with Anakin's anxiety about Padme and her pregnancy.

    It's difficult to say whether Padme would have survived if he had ignored the dreams, though. The way the birth plays out is different than what little we glimpse of Anakin's dreams (Padme doesn't call out his name and Obi-Wan doesn't tell her to hang on), so it might have come to pass regardless. It definitely became a self-fulfilling prophecy, but considering his dreams of his mother came true due to his inaction it's understandable why Anakin was so desperate to stop Padme from suffering a similar fate.
  7. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    A vision from the Force, not Palpatine.
  8. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    that.

  9. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Personally I think Palpatine didn't need to create the dream. Padme does, after all, die similarly to how it is seen in the nightmare, so it makes sense that Anakin would have a premonition about it. Unless of course you think Palpatine knew for a fact that she was going to die, and thus created the dream... but that doesn't fully make sense to me.



    I think many fans have a bad habit of trying to dump a lot of the negative choices and feelings of the characters upon Palpatine's shoulders. It's easier to blame him for all of the bad choices made in the PT, instead of acknowledging that the good guys made a lot of their own bad choices or made their own mistakes.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    No, Palpatine cannot be blamed for the bad choices of the PT characters, including Anakin, whose redemption in ROTJ becomes much less powerful if we pretend he "just couldn't help himself" in ROTS.

    However, Palpatine did manage to manipulate the entire galaxy into going to war for the first time in 1000 years, and he then successfully played both sides of that war to accumulate absolute power for himself. I don't find it too far-fetched that he could have sent Anakin that dream via the Force, especially given the convenient timing and Palpatine's knowledge of Anakin's marriage.

    But maybe he didn't send the vision, just sensed through the Force that Anakin had had it and decided to use it for his own purposes. I still find it too convenient though.
  11. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    That begs the question: why would Palpatine sense exactly what the dream was whereas every other Jedi did not? I actually like the idea that he sends the dreams to Anakin because it makes him seem that much more evil and manipulative. Also, I don't understand why the force would constantly send these visions to its Chosen One that only result in death, violence, and heartbreak. The whole Shmi situation seemed a bit random and convenient for Palpatine as well.
  12. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    What I wonder is: did Anakin actually see Padme die, or he just made assumptions based on his previous nightmares about his mother? Was Padme's death inevitable at this point?
  13. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I don't think he saw Padme's death and we definitely didn't see it in the fragments we saw. He didn't actually see his mother die in his visions, either.

    I think he came to the conclusion on his own.

    Padme's death during childbirth being an inevitability wouldn't really fit with "always in motion is the future."
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    This is from the novel:

    Anakin lurched upright in bed, gasping, staring blindly into alien darkness.

    How she had screamed for him--how she had begged for him, how her strength had failed on that alien table, how at the last she could only whisper, Anakin, I'm sorry. I love you. I love you--thundered inside his head, blinding him to the contours of the night-shrouded room, deafening him to every sound save the turbohammer of his heart.

    His hand of flesh found unfamiliar coils of sweat-damp silken sheets around his waist. Finally he remembered where he was.


    Looks like he saw her giving birth and then weakening, but not her actual death.


  15. VadersFollower Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2011
    star 1
    The story in ROTS is basically 'MacBeth'. He sees a vision of his wife dying and by trying to prevent it he eventually causes it and makes the vision come true. And again, Anakin could always predict the future, its not something Palpatine implanted. He saw Padme dying at childbirth and that happened. Palpatine knew his vision cause he sensed that Anakin's concerned like Vader sensed Luke's concern about Leia during their duel on Death Star II
  16. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Perhaps, but the visions changed to keep up with the shifting future ("always in motion, the future is"). If Palps was just making it up I doubt it would have unfolded that way.
  17. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    It's just weird that we don't see Padme die in the vision. It's a bizarre directorial decision. In fact, we see he making a face that many women make during childbirth. Seeing her dead would have at least made Anakin's decisions more rational.
  18. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    You're right. She's not necessarily dying; she's suffering. Anakin makes an unwarranted leap based on the outcome of rescuing his mother, who he also claimed to see "suffering". There's no explicit evidence, based on what we're shown, that what Anakin glimpses is actually a death of a loved one. In the words of Obi-Wan from the previous movie, he is "focusing on the negative". While it's a no-doubt-unsettling experience that Anakin has, he jumps to a false conclusion ("Always on the move") -- and it's all downhill from there.
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  19. b3gi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2011
    i think Palpatine was using the force to influence his dreams so in the end he could revel himself to anaking as friend who is trying to help him save padme from death
  20. PrincessKenobi New Films Manager of DOOM

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 6
    Honestly in the case of this dream, I think it was more of a inner fear of his. Because the images are so vague it could be anything. He should of worked on focusing and trying to get more clearer edges before going into panic mode. He should of also told Padme more about it and what he was going to try and do and even asked her if she would want him to use the force to keep her alive.
  21. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    Pretty much what everyone else said. All he saw was her screaming and looking exhausted after giving birth. Naturally, he drew on past experiences of this kind of thing and assumed she was dying.

    Of course, I do wonder why he didn't ask her (or at least look up on galactic net) on how human women give birth.
  22. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I think that the moment Padme told Anakin of her pregnancy, his fears got the best of him. This fear manifested in his dream or premonition of Padme in the middle of childbirth. She didn't die in his dream. But Anakin being true to himself, assumed the worst and allowed his fear to get the best of him.

    I don't believe that Palpatine did anything to manifest those visions within Anakin. But once he learned about them from Anakin's hints, he did his best to exploit the latter's fears. That is what he does best - exploit the fears of others. That is one thing that many politicians are very good at. When he and Count Dooku created the Separatist movement, they were simply exploiting the negative feelings that other systems already harbored, thanks to the Senate's actions or lack of them.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  23. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Anakin's destiny to the darkside happened because of a bad dream and the chemicals in his dream, Vs., the bad guy inplanting visions of his mind with his evil superpowers, vs. the Force creating a self fullfilling prophecy.

    Can't tell which one is the better idea, or canon.
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