Spok, WA Anakin's origins...

Discussion in 'Pacific Regional Discussion' started by CoolHanLuke, May 23, 2005.

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  1. CoolHanLuke Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2004
    star 2
    Remember in Episode I when Qui-gon asks Shmi about Anakin's father? She said, "There was no father...I can't explain what happened."

    Now this may come as no surprise to a lot of you, but, I believe we have the answer in Episode III.

    During the opera house scene, Palpatine relates to Anakin the story of Darth Plageis, the wise, "...he had such a knowledge of the Force, he could even influence the midichlorians to create...life." He then tells Anakin that Plageis teaches his apprentice, then later, the apprentice kills Plageis in his sleep.

    Now as I was thinking about this (with some help by USA Today last weekend), I was wondering if Palpatine learned this power---to influence the midichlorians---by Plageis, then, was the very one to later kill him. If this train of thought is correct, then Palpatine would be Anakin's Father. It would explain why he was so taken with him from the very beginning: "...and you, young Skywalker, we will watch your career with great interest."

    It's just my opinion, but, as I'm putting the pieces together, it appears to fit.

    What do you guys think? [face_thinking]
  2. JarusSarn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2004
    star 4
    Sidious was the apprentice of Plageous but that's really as much as I know... as far as being Anakin's father, well I think only Uncle George knows that :D
  3. Thumpernicus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    <as far as being Anakin's father, well I think only Uncle George knows that>


    For some reason, I bet he has not even thought about it.
  4. The_Cheeser Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 3
    I am disapointed that there was no good explanation about the fatherless Anakin. The Palpy theory is interesting, as I had imagined that before "Sith" but it still isn't a good theory that stands up to the rest of the movies.
  5. ES-CHA-PHA-LAS Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2005
    Actally I was thinking, a bit different. I dont think Palpatine is quite that powerful, and that he was telling the truth when he said that only 1 has ever learned the power to influence the creation of life. Not to mention that if he did have that power that he would probally be using it all the time. So I believe its more likely that it was Darth Plageis himself that fathered/created Anakin, before he was killed. Interesting line of thought though...How many others might there be out there, without any direction, some perhaps weaker than Anakin, some perhaps more powerful.
  6. The_Cheeser Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 3
    Hmmm... Interesting thought. Multiple fatherless force adepts. But if that is the case, wouldn't the Sith have a system in place to monitor and prepare to train such beings? If Qui-Gon is right, then the Force brought Anakin to the Jedi, and almost was a good little Jedi. It doesn't make sense to me to put the effort into creating Force beings, and not have control over them. Especially the most powerfull (midichlorian speaking) Force user.

    Unless it is like spreading seed and watching to see which seed grows and blooms. Nah, I still don't buy it. Anakin's Father/lack-of-Father is something more complicated I think, and I hope that some day, Lucas lets someone write a book about it.
  7. Eledaia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2004
    star 3
    Well, if Anakin was created by a sith lord, it makes sense that he would exist on Tatooine, far from the Jedi and other civilization, to grow up as an easily manipulated apprentice. In the end, Palpatine's apprentice had enough good influences in his life to turn him around.
  8. The_Cheeser Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 3
    The only way I'll buy that is if there was supposed to have been a system in place by Darth Plageis, but was not fulfilled after his death. Even then... very weak.
  9. ES-CHA-PHA-LAS Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2005
    I dont think its so weak. For 1 thing they made a point in the movie to let us know that he could create life, not just stop death. Plus IM sure revenge was the plan even before Palpatine, so Aakin could have been planned to be that tool, ofcourse theres the face that the Sith during this time had found a way to move about and do what they wanted without being detected by the Jedi. And then for all of Yodas knowledge over the ages Anakin being fatherless was a mystery to him even. Just all speculation, but cool.
  10. CoolHanLuke Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2004
    star 2
    We know Lucas always has reoccuring themes going on in each episode---like the one of a duo ruling the galaxy together.

    Vader wanted Luke to join him so they could rule together. Anakin tempting Padme to join him so they could rule together. Palpatine wanted Anakin to join him so they could rule together. Once Palps knew Anakin had fallen for Padme, he had to plot a way to have her taken out (like the bombing on the landing platform in EP2, for instance) because he had been grooming Anakin from the very beginning. Once Maul got sliced, in steps Dooku. Dooku's execution by Anakin, for all intents and purposes, was staged by Palpatine himself (LOE) so he could have the apprentice he wanted all along...Anakin Skywalker.

    I'm just wondering why Palps knew that "the Force is STRONG with you..." It seems that Palps/Sidious took extra pains to ensure that Anakin was "trained" by him, instead of the Jedi. Once he turned Anakin against the Jedi and his wife, Sidious would ensure the Sith would rule. I may be getting off the subject, but, maybe it's all about selfish Sidious and his plan to rule the galaxy. Maybe Anakin was just the pawn to get him there. And maybe he didn't see himself getting shaft-thrown by the very one he had previously corrupted.

    I'm not saying that Palpatine is Anakin's father, it's just that Palpatine is seen to be gunning for Anakin from the very beginning. I would say that Plageis being Anakin's father sounds possible. [face_thinking]

    Just food for thought...



  11. padmay_and_luke Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2005
    Bloody hell!! I was onto a good thought and when I tried to edit it, I either accidently posted it or lost it. Crap. Okay, what I was saying was I think Sidious' intention from the beginning was to gain ultimate power for himself; his apprentices were merely pawns in his game, Anakin included (he tries to coax Luke to join him and replace his father). Anakin was an easy target for Palpatine because the Force was incredibly strong in him and also because Anakin, from a very early age, already had serious power complexes/issues. He was a slave, property, from as far back as he can remember. When Qui Gon discovered him and Anakin began his Jedi training, the Jedi took over "dictating" his life. After his mother dies Anakin really begins to struggle with issues of control and power. Since Palpatine is so mighty a Sith Lord, he senses this conflict and feeds on it. Where the Jedi are firm, Palpatine coos into Ani's ear just the things he wants to hear. Anakin's dreams of Padme dying in childbirth are just the fuel Palpatine needs to get that fire burning. This leads me to my opinion regarding the whole topic of who fathered Anakin. Do I think a Sith is responsible? No. They possess the power to manipulate, lie, warp, corrupt, and possibly cheat death, but create life? No. I saw that as just one more lie and piece of manipulation to turn poor Ani over to the dark side. My idea is way out in left field, but here goes: Shmi committed the most selfless act ever - she let Anakin go. She must be one hell of an awesome, almost holy individual, and if that is indeed the case, then perhaps it was a random (?) act of the Force using her as the vessel with which to bring to life one who will bring back balance. Anakin was supposed to be this prophesized "chosen one," but even Mace Windu and Obi Wan (?) express thoughts of doubt in ROTS. Perhaps, then, Anakin is not the chosen one, but (regardless of his actions) through him will be born the one who will ultimately bring balance (a son who knows nothing of his father but evil yet still is full of compassion and will not destroy him...). Like I said, out there, but so go many of my ideas. I have no insider info, just the movies, reading your posts, and my own perceptions and reactions to the storyline. Peace!
  12. Jordi-WanKenobi20 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2004
    star 1
    I am pretty sure in Vanity Fair Jan. 2005 they had a "Star Wars Spectacular" and it mentioned that Anakin's birth was immaculate, George Lucas made that statement, I could be wrong I will read it again and let you all know.
  13. -JediClone- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2005
    star 2
    There must be some truth to Plageius or Sidious "creating" Anakin. Sidious's lies to Anakin and everybody else were laregly half-truths with room for interpretation. (For example, The Jedi *were* going to take power from him, he just set up Anakin to take that as a bad thing). But that doesn't neccessarily mean either of them were the genetic father. Assuming there was (only) one, they might have sought out "ideal" stock, the same way Tyranus narrowed the potenetial clonetrooper templates down to Jango Fett.


    I've read that Lucas has declared Anakin and Palpatine's origins hands-off for EU authors, same as Yoda's. So I doubt this will every be officialy addressed by anyone.
  14. CoolHanLuke Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2004
    star 2
    Great dialogue everyone!

    Do I think a Sith is responsible? No. They possess the power to manipulate, lie, warp, corrupt, and possibly cheat death, but create life? No. I saw that as just one more lie and piece of manipulation to turn poor Ani over to the dark side.

    This makes me think of what Sidious said to Anakin after Anakin pledges his allegience to him and says he can't live without Padme: "To cheat death...but if we work together, I know we can find the secret." When I heard that line, it was like, "April Fools, Anakin! I don't really know how to stop people from dying, or to create life for that matter. I just thought it was something you wanted to hear because your afraid to lose Padme, and I want to manipulate you for my own purposes."

    That scene makes me look at the opera house dialogue in another way. We can see Palpatine trying to twist Anakin (to the Sith way of thinking) with statements like, "...and the Jedi don't?" The silence that followed after Anakin countered with, "the Sith think inward, only about themselves. The Jedi are selfless...they think only about others," made Palpatine realize he had to act decisively to "steal" that belief from Anakin by playing to his emotions. You can see the inquisitive look on Anakin's face (you can tell he's trying to play it down, but, it's there), when he say's, "He could actually stop people from dying?" This ties in with what Anakin has been thinking about since his mother's death and his promise to "...even stop people from dying." With a wonderful performance by Ian McDiarmid, Palpatine has set the stage for Anakin's turn to the dark side.

    Maybe Palps is not the father, but just one selfish Sith, who's only looking out for himself.

    Makes me [face_thinking]
  15. The_Cheeser Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 3
    I've read that Lucas has declared Anakin and Palpatine's origins hands-off for EU authors, same as Yoda's.

    Man, that sucks. I guess leaving it open for all us fans/geeks/freaks to discuss/debate is ok tho. I just wish that there was something official to add to our current understanding. Like just a hint more of how Anakin was concieved. Was Palpatine really from Naboo (I don't believe this for a second)? Any tidbits of Yoda's history would be really great. If Lucas really did say "off limits" then that's that. Maybe I'll make up a story to make me feel better.
  16. CoolHanLuke Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2004
    star 2
    Maybe I'll make up a story to make me feel better. [face_laugh]
  17. padmay_and_luke Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2005
    Hey, I'm all over making up a story to make me feel better. "Reality and sobriety were her only delusions..." (Presidents...) And who are you calling a geek?!? I say the members of the Spokantina are very worthy. (Smiley face here).
    No novel tonight...
    Padmay
  18. Daramin_of_The_Way Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2004
    star 4
    Whoo, lots of ideas and discussion in here. Got to love it.
    I'm inclined to think that Palpatine's line about his master being able to manipulate and create life is a lie, but it brings to mind the idea that someone did manipulate the midi-clorians to do that and we get Anakin.
    Or, another thought just occured, it oculd have been a very selective genetic selection process, a breeding program. That's reaching a bit for Star Wars, though...
    Anakin's conception aside, I think Plageis knew, somehow, about Anakin, and perhaps even Maul and bega the processs, but Palpatine, being evil and wanting power, killed Plageis before any sort of organized plan could be created.
    If Plageis could create life ( a fact I doubt. Evil destroys life) I agree with ES-CHA-PHA-LAS.
    I also think that Maul was the original apprentince and when he died (Palpatine probably didn't count on a Padawan killing Maul) Palpatine saw in Anakin a replacement. Dooku was a mere temp, who Palpatine probably realized would eventually attempt to take over completely, like Palpatine did to Plageis.
    Anyway, my two cents.
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