Anakin's profoundly human frailty

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darthkarma, May 25, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Butler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 1999
    star 4
    Violet, I completely agree. Some fans wanted a powerful, menacing Anakin in Episode II. I'm glad George insisted on Hayden playing a boyish--and occasionally childish--Anakin. It'll just make Episode III more poignant.
  2. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    I have said this before and will say it again and again no matter how many times the thought is battered by Ani-bashers who will cling to the tusken raider massacure as the sole testiment to Anakin's Character till the end of time....

    Anakin is an intense, powerful young man... he is often overwhelmed by this (wow.. as anyone would be)... In this ficticious character many of us see dark reflections of ourselves no matter how much we would like to disavow this fact... Not everyone can be as 'perfect' as Obi-wan...


    Wow! I had forgetten about this thread!!! And it is such a good one!


    Same feelings as DB above - Anakin is the saga in so many ways and while Obiwan is a very good charcter in his own right, if it weren't for the mythological implications of Anakin in all of his godly glory, the prequels would be quite boring. If you read the expectations of everyone on this site it is for something *magic* to happen with Anakin, something *epic*, because he is the Force incarnate in this saga, plain and simple, both trilogies are his story - straight from Lucas' mouth. I for one think that with the Anakin I expect to see in EIII, one that is a war hero, married, father to be, more imposing and powerful, but not yet wholly evil or villainous, just *human*. A human that is destined to be a pawn of destiny or the force or whatever you want to call, that loves too much, feels to deeply and ultimately pays the price for that. It gives those who would use him ammunition. Kill the wife, or make it look like she's dead, betrayed him whatever - you get one po'd VERY powerful man. IMO, we'll be made to sympathize with his plight in III. Boy will it be sad.......
  3. Falls_the_Shadow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 3
    Batgirl, welcome to the boards. :)
    I agree that Campbell would love the prequels. I like to think that he somehow is aware of them.

    Moyers: But I can hear someone saying, "Well, that's all well and good for the imagination of a George Lucas or for the scholarship of a Joseph Campbell, but that isn't what happens in my life.
    Campbell: You bet it is - and if he doesn't recognize it, it may turn him into Darth Vader.


    The monster that Anakin must slay is the anger within himself. Instead, he lashes out and the Tuskens, the women, and the children too, starting a path where he will destroy all those dear to him.
  4. Batgirl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Thanks, Falls_the_Shadow. I'm really enjoying this thread. Anakin has so many aspects to explore. I find it interesting that while he is the child of prophecy, almost like the living embodiment of the Force, he is still so deeply human. His conflict is almost like a metaphor for the Force - light and dark. When he is conquered, the galaxy is in darkness. When he is redeemed, the darkness dissapates.

    It almost seems as if Campbell predicted the prequels. He's right on in so many respects.
  5. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    This thread is way cool. Read it.

    :)

  6. Falls_the_Shadow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 3
    Batgirl wrote:
    "I find it interesting that while he is the child of prophecy, almost like the living embodiment of the Force, he is still so deeply human. His conflict is almost like a metaphor for the Force - light and dark. When he is conquered, the galaxy is in darkness. When he is redeemed, the darkness dissapates."

    This is precisely why the reprise of "The Duel of Fates" is perfect music for Anakin's search on the speeder bike for his mother. The battle of Light and Dark in the force is just as dramatic, yet interior. The lyrics to the chorus, translated from Sanskrit, support it: it speaks of a battle, while another one rages at the head.

    Your reply reminded me of this quotation:

    Furthermore, we have not only to risk the adventure alone;
    for the heroes of all time have gone before us;the labryinth is thoroughly known;
    we have only to follow the thread of the hero-path.
    And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god;
    where we thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves;
    where we had thought to travel outward,
    we shall come to the center of our own existence, where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.
    ?Joseph Campbell
    Hero with a Thousand Faces
  7. Darthkarma2 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003

    "where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world"

    ?Joseph Campbell

    This quote is really what this thread is all about. Anakin's isolation, his mistakes, his frailty, rather than separating him from the audience, in my opinion, illuminates how much we have in common. We all face temptation, have made mistakes in love,
    and have hubris. To me, this is why he is such a fascinating character.
  8. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    Like a phoenix from it's ashes, a great Thread rises! ;)
  9. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    This needs to go UP UP UP!
  10. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    How did I miss this one?
    This page looks good, I'll read up on the other 14 now :D
  11. Crispy_Fried_Dentic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2003
    star 2
    I keep trying to make a post in here that doesn't simply say "UP!", but I find that anything I write can't hold a candle to the many intelligent and insightful posts here. I'm tongue-tied :p, this thread is fascinating!

    I will say, however that I feel GirlJedi hit the nail on the head when she said:

    I'm so glad Lucas showed us Anakin acting very normal, human. He was nervous, smiling, happy, sad, angry, conflicted, in pain, yet also he was a Jedi.

    I feel the same way! He has a great range of emotions, the same as we do. He's not stoic and stuffy like Mace, nor permanently calm and peaceful like Yoda. He's just like most of us...silly, playful, serious, hurting. He shows it all without being false, without trying to hide it.

    It seemed he had paid attention to what Obi Wan was teaching him, though maybe like many of us, lessons we are taught when we are young may be appreciated til years later.

    You got that right! Many, many times that's been true for me.
  12. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4
    "It seemed he had paid attention to what Obi Wan was teaching him, though maybe like many of us, lessons we are taught when we are young may be appreciated til years later."

    Truer words were never spoken. I can't tell you how many things I was taught when I was a teen and young adult that I wish I had listened to AT THE TIME. That trait is just one more thing that makes Anakin the Chosen One profoundly human.

  13. Super_Nation_Jock Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2002
    star 4


    Even the toughest guys have their weak spots and often times that means women. I've seen some of friends go off the deep end over some girl and when they come out of it they can't figure out what in the world they were thinking. Anakin's obsession and weakness for Padme make his story so human. It's all about being human and having flaws. That's a big part of the appeal of STAR WARS for me.
  14. Rick_McGollum Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2003
    star 1


    I've been reading through the posts here and I have really enjoyed this thread. It really shows Star Wars fans "get" a lot of what the saga is all about and that the story is about the humanity of the characters and their emotions. And how that relates to all of us.
  15. Landlocked Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2003
    A great, great thread, indeed...!

    I almost cry when Anakin/Vader dies in ROTJ. And the tears definetely come to my face at the end of the movie, when Luke sees the spirits of Yoda, Obi-Wan...and a redeemed Anakin! The three, the greatest ones , together, celebrating victory - or, even better, the FOUR.

    This scene, that was always wonderful to me, after episodes I & II, gained a meaning even more special and beautiful...

    And about the original concept of the thread, i came to the conclusion that another capital feeling that we have in SW is GUILTY.

    Guilty of Anakin for having left her mother in Tatooine; guilty of Obi for having lost Anakin to the dark side; guilty of Padme for having "helped" Anakin in his way to dark side...

    Well, guilty is everywhere in the Saga - and it has different effects on each character: it may took Anakin to become Vader, but also helped (my opinion) Obi to convince Yoda in training Luke. Oh, and guilty was finally dead when Vader saved his son and the galaxy from the Emperor...

    Don't stop sharing your ideas about it, guys :)





  16. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4

    Guilt is definitely one of the repeating motifs. Yoda and Obi-Wan, especially.
  17. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4


    I like this quote from FALLS THE SHADOW:

    "The monster that Anakin must slay is the anger within himself"

    I think that's an excellent creative interpretation. I had never thought of it that way. That monster keeps growing and growing though...and we all know what it leads to. That monster is what Yoda was warning about in TPM,

    "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

    A lot of people create their own monsters, and end up being their own worst enemy.
    That is certainly true of Anakin Skywalker.
  18. Crispy_Fried_Dentic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2003
    star 2
  19. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    UP again.. Anakin worst enemy is indeed himself..
  20. Palpateen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2000
    star 4


    The world is full of people who have stopped listening to themselves or have listened only to their neighbors to learn what they ought to do, how they ought to behave, and what the values are that they should be living for.

    I love that sentence!
  21. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Wow... this is a good thread... many insightful thoughts.

    I have to say I'm a little surprised [face_mischief] :p
  22. MissPadme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Man, I used to read this thread all of the time! Great to see someone posts here every now and then.

    --MissPadme
  23. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

    It's funny, Yoda's quote sounded like foreshadowing when I heard it in TPM...and really, there's Anakin's story in AOTC all laid out for us.

    Fear for his mother drives him to find her, and her death channels his rage and anger. He slaughters all the Tuskens in the camp, regarding them as little more than animals that he hates...and he suffers for these feelings, for he knows that he's done something wrong.
  24. JohnWesleyDowney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2004
    star 5
    Excellent point DamonD. I always from the very first time I saw TPM felt that that line of Yoda dialogue was a perfect foreshadowing of where Anakin was ultimately going. And as you point out, that's EXACTLY where we go with it in AOTC,

    In the confession scene,with tears in eyes (frailty)
    he screams

    I HATE THEM!

    (he's right on schedule based on what Yoda says)
  25. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Hmm, interesting.

    Seems like there's some interesting discussion going on in this thread.

    One thing, though. Profound?? Aren't we overdoing it a bit here. Obviously, Anakin is a very human character. But perhaps someone could help me see what's profound about it.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.