Anakin's Quest For Power...To Save People From Death

I am not sure if this has been discussed at length,I have not been on here for a while and a search did not show me what I was looking for.

That said,I sort of had a idea of my own how they could have filmed some scenes to tie in why Anakin went so far down the Dark Side after Sidious convinced him with his stories and lies...

As we know from the films,Anakin's mother died in his arms.Then he had bad nightmares about Padme dying at childbirth.

We know this is what was the main triggering cause/effect that Sidious/Palps used to his advantage to lure Anakin to the Dark Side.

Says the Prequels,when Anakin found his mother and she died in his arms,he became angry and killed all the sand people.I loved that,but it was short and left to our imagination.

Remember,when he later says He knows he could have saved her...Obi wan was holding him back and later Said,"I know there are things about the force they are not telling me."

He is/had been convinced that there is alot more not being said,taught but he does not know what.
He feels like they are keeping him from Force knowledge/secrets or something deeper.

Its sort of believable that a simple story about a Sith Legend would get his attention,BUT he had been trained for years and warned to stay off the dark path,stay away from the Sith teachings.

To me,just hearing a story would not always be so convincing,experiencing it in some form would have been even better.Someone as trained as he was would need way more than a bed time story about a fallen sith that could save people from death.

Any Jedi alive would have dismissed this as a LIE,because its what they are taught,the SITH lie and think inwards only about themselves.However,this is what they are taught,not what they know from fact!

Anakin would have to be a complete fool to simply buy a story like that,after all his training,and not see through the lie it was.He would need to experience some form of power he never thought possible,but needed someone to show him the way there.I know he was desperate,and the film is what it is,but I had other ideas.


That said,my idea for the movie would have been a scene more like this:

When Anakin's mom died in his arms,he began to TRY and use the Force to try and revive her..he puts his hands across her chest and using the force,makes her body/heart jump start over and over like someone is shocking her with paddles...he is angry,upset,but feels he should be able to use the force to bring her back to life,but is not sure how...he keeps trying and for a moment he brings her back...

She regains some form of conscious and pleads to Anakin,"Let me go!,the pain is too much!,let me go back!,let me go!..".She had began to cross over,his trying,using the Dark side and not realizing it yet,is pulling her soul back but it is Dark,evil process he doesnt understand.He is not knowledeable or strong enough with the Dark side to keep her there.He also does not know he is allowing evil to come back into the world this way as well.

She dies again in his arm and he becomes super angry,the dark side of the force is starting to flow through him,though he is unaware he is tapping some un-natural ability the dark side has,and once again brings her back...she is coming back to life! She coughs,cries,and lets out a wail that is not heard of in any cries known to Jedis.She is not herself though,and appears to be delusional while he uses the force to try and keep her alive.

He realizes something is wrong,and stops doing what he is doing.She stops breathing and fades away.He almost brought her back,felt a tremendous flow of Force through him that was so quick and easy,but he does not care where it is from.He is too angry about her being dead that he goes onto his rampage of slaughter."

That is the scene I had in mind,or along those lines.He had tasted a Force power he wasnt not ever trained for,nor experienced.He felt guilty that he did not know enough of this power to keep his mother alive and when he was in fear of losing Padme,he lusted for the power to save people from death,since he had tasted it and

 

Wow...Interesting and extra extra tragic....

 

Nothing he said to Anakin was provably untrue, with the possible exception of the thing about the Jedi killing the Senators, which seems to defy credibility.

 

I agree with the above statement. Almost everything Palpatine said to Anakin about the Dark Side is not a lie; remember, according to RotJ, everything is subject to "point of view" in the SW universe.

However, the seeds of Anakin's "fall", for the lack of a better term, were already there; he was having issues coping with letting go, among other things, and although a simple story definitely wouldn't drag Anakin into going to the Dark Side, the point was to introduce the idea that joining Palpatine = saving Anakin's loved ones, EVEN THOUGH it is unprovable that this method actually works. So, from this point of view, Palpatine doesn't outright lie, but he also stretches the truth quite a bit to get his way, and these are enough to get Anakin to join him as an apprentice of the Dark Side.

 

Thanks for all of the feedback!

As you can see from my story version,and what Anakin already knew or was already taught,the Sith were told to be Liars in stories the Jedi heard about..Anakin obviously knew alot about the Sith,as told to him by the Jedi,when he said the Sith think inwards and only care about themselves...just before Palps told him the story about about Darth Plaugeis.

In my story,Anakin used the force of some kind, to try and bring his mother back from Near death but failed...hence his believing the Sith legend might be true,when he was told the story,and he needed a teacher to show him the way.

Palps was that teacher and my version sort of explains more so why he gave in,why he attacked Windu to save Palps.At least in my version...simply telling Anakin a Sith legend may have been enticing,but without experiencing this power for himself in some tiny form,just hearing a story to totally convince him to turn is a bit extreme.

Then again,maybe that is all it takes,for someone with lust for more power,is a simple story that all Palps had to do and tell him about.

Just wanted to provide another idea to how I wish they filmed it.




I never thought of Palps as being a simple story telling liar,twisting the truth and making up stories simply to Lure Anakin in to the Dark side...Anakin would have been too smart for that unless he had tasted the Power himself and needed someone to show him a way.

 

This is the gist of their conversation:

Palpatine: Good evening, young man! I have a proposition for you! You can abandon more than a decade of training and your livelihood to join a cult known for internecine strife and chronic backstabbing, both in the literal and figurative sense of the word. Doing so will grant you access to the secret to immortality, a guarantee I cannot provide, but given a Sith's reputation for dishonesty, you will simply have to take my word for it! Are you interested?

Anakin: Sir, your offer greatly intrigues me! I will certainly join, even though this galaxy has state-of-the-art medical technology that my wife, a high-ranking member of the government, will have access to, making her chances of death very slim, especially in the process of childbirth! I also trust that you will follow through with your promises, and feel that this is the most prudent decision.

 

Sums it up pretty accurately, which is why I initially refused to go see ROTS in the theater. My husband dragged me to see it at the $1.50 theater in August, and he bought the DVD. I was way too irritated to pay full price for that movie.

I like the OP's take on it.

 

The main thing about Anakin's vision is that it made him irrational. He saw his mother die from the same type of vision, so no matter what he knows about modern medicine he's going to believe the vision he saw. It's also not good that you have Palpatine whispering in his ear things that he wants to hear, "You won't have to hide your marriage anymore" "I can provide you the power to keep your loved ones alive" "I can give you the power to do whatever you want whenever you want".

 

*applauds* That just made my evening.

 

Yet if you had someone you loved deeply, who you acknowledged you couldn't live without, who was terminally ill by way of (as yet) unknown causes, and you were told about the possibility of some new, yet unavailable drug in a secret laboratory which could prevent any such death, you've no idea who or what you would betray, the lengths you might go, or the people with whom you might make a pact to to get such a drug.

Figuratively, its selling one's soul to the devil. It doesn't matter that you already realise the devil is evil - one may still do it to even have the slightest chance of achieving what is offered. Anakin desires something. The devil offers him it. He makes a pact with the devil. He succumbs to the devil's influence and suffers as a result. Nothing wrong with it as a fictional story. It plays and resonates very well for me. Palpatine may have had the secret and may have known how to do it. But Palpatine certainly wasn't going to give Anakin what he wanted before Anakin first did his evil deeds in return. As it turns out, Anakin kills Padme anyway, so we never get to find out. That may have been part of Palpatine's plan all along, of course.

Yet its worth noting that what Anakin was seeing couldn't be resolved by said "state-of-the-art medical technology". So such a point is basically null and void. Again, this is Star Wars. Normal rules of logic need not apply. In this world, a broken heart cannot be fixed, no matter the technology. It clearly goes beyond technology.

 

Yeah. He doesn't want to take the risk.

To expand on it further, the way I see it, Anakin is struggling at that point and his demons conspire to give him a vision - a vision which acts as a test, just as Luke's vision of Vader on Dagobah will be a test. Luke fails this and later fails in dealing with a second vision, rushing to save his friends when advised otherwise. Anakin fails too, causing his visions to become a reality in trying to prevent them. He is seeing a possible future and, due to what happened with his Mother, he doesn't want to take any chances that this possible future will not come true. That's totally understandable, and lacking clear hindsight I don't think one should criticise.

Would Padme have died had Anakin ignored his demons? We don't know. Although Anakin seemed certain the vision would lead to death unless he acted, "always in motion is the future" and "impossible to see, the future is". As I said, Anakin's downfall was that he simply couldn't take any chance it might not come true, and as a result, rather perversely and very cruelly, his preventative actions were the very actions that made it come true. By breaking Padme's heart seeking her cure, he kills her. I think its one of the most layered and interesting developments in the saga and I don't think I'd change anything about it. I love it

 

d_arblay: I agree with you to a point, and I sympathize with Anakin as far as why he found Palpatine's offer appealing. Where I think he should have stopped would have been with the order to attack the Temple. At that point he should have said, "Really, Chancellor? How exactly is killing Jedi, including younglings, going to help me save my wife?" And then attacking Padme because Obi-Wan appeared on her ship--he's been on enough missions with Obi-Wan that he should have known that Obi-Wan probably snuck aboard the ship, plus Padme has never given him any reason to believe she would bring anyone to kill Anakin. Those are my two biggest *headdesk* moments in the film. OK, Anakin, you want to save Padme and Yoda blew you off when you asked for help, and Obi-Wan blew you off when you asked for help with your mother so you aren't even bothering with him this time. I get it. But how about seeking a method of saving Padme's life that actually resembles a method of saving Padme's life?

Of course my personal take on it is that Palpatine literally drove Anakin insane, and that's why he was able to rationalize his actions.

 

Well Palpatine reasons "only then will you be strong enough in the dark side" or words to that effect. Its essentially an initiation of sorts. Anakin must do it to ensure he is committed and therefore able to use the methods he wishes to learn. Also, he realises, having killed Windu and declaring his allegiance to Palpatine, he has now become the Jedi's enemy. Killing the Jedi becomes as much about self-preservation, whether he wants to or not. But pretty soon, performing these acts both corrupts and seduces him to the point where he's no longer Anakin and no longer able to draw the line emotionally between rational and irrational - he has become Vader. Its a given that he is enraged when he realises Padme is rejecting him, and, when he sees her apparently hiding the man he realises will now be intent on killing him moments later, a paranoia surfaces about her betraying him.

Well considering he is yet to know the source of her death, a possible method that covers all eventualities (even if it is supernatural) does seem pretty rational.

 

Depending on your own background and life experience I think we may be surprised at what we may do to bring about a result that we think has bearing on our own little worlds as we know it. Palpatine gave him the classic Satan like bait of "I can do this for you if you do this for me". All Anakin knew was if Mace killed palpatine (and he clearly believed this in his heart) then Padme' was doomed. By Anakin committing the act of abetting Mace's murder he was all in at that point. To keep Palps around and to learn the skill he needed to learn he had to defend himself and Palps from the Jedi whom he was already starting to resent.

So: I helped Palps kill Mace Windu, It's going to hit the fan and we're dead. But if we're dead then padme' dies. the only way to keep her from dying to is ensure Palps is around long enough to to help me unlock this skill. And there you have it. While he may originally have gone over the edge with noble cause in mind, he went over the edge none the less. Theres a reason why we have the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

If you have ever had one, take a moment and look into yourself during your darkest time and I mean darkest most rock bottom time in your life and see what choices you may or may not have made. Compare this with the amount of familial murder/suicides that have transpired since the economy tanked. Theres a hell of a scenario: I'm broke, cant support my family so I'm going to check out. But, if I check out then my family is going to continue to suffer so I'm taking them with me and we'll be at peace and have no more worries. The human mind can work in deep and dark ways. A psychologist could make a career out of analyzing Anakin.

 

The thing is...was it Anakin's? The man came home to Coruscant to a hero's welcome, at the heels of leading a Republic victory that pretty much crushed the Separatists, killed Count Dooku, and rescued the Chancellor, all while performing insane acts of derring-do. This wasn't the low point of his life. He was at his zenith. There's really no comparison to the people who lose everything in economically hard times and try to commit a murder-suicide, as you referenced.

Also, Anakin obviously was never taught basic logic. His wife showed no indication of being ill - in fact, even after being nearly choked to death by him, she still delivered two healthy babies. I can't stress this enough, but SW medical technology is pretty advanced. It's a huge wallbanger when you have the technology to make synthetic flesh on perfectly functional cybernetic hands or to magically repair the face of a guy who got mauled by a snow creature by dipping him in a vat of liquid medicine, and then have a character who grew up in this environment freak the hell out because he had a bad dream. If Anakin had spent two minutes in the Jedi Temple's medical center, he would have realized how incredibly idiotic his entire dilemma was.

 

You're very correct on those accounts. But, I think Anakin was still an impetous and not entirely emotionally grounded kid beneath it all. I think he incorrectly assumed that because he had a vision about his mother in pain and death and it came to be that he put all his faith and belief in his vision about Padme's demise. I think to him there was no question she would die unless he intervened.

Now, that spins a whole new angle on Anakin if the above is correct because it means he's arrogrant enough and fool enough to take his visions as 100% certainty, despite what he was taught and then furthered his arrogrance by thinking he could stop thier deaths if he was powerful enough, to hell with the "will of the force" thing.

this makes for interesting reading, his psych profile:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/21/health/webmd/main2832453.shtml?source=RSSattr=Health_2832453

 

Equally, I can't stress this enough; Padme died despite this advanced medical technology. Anakin's vision was therefore fundamentally correct. Of course, he didn't realise he would prove the source of her death, but he would have been wrong to assume medical technology could save her from anything.

 

The point is, Anakin DOES find the key to stopping death - his own! The suit and mask only does so much to keep Anakin/Vader alive, the rest is all down to his anger, hatred and his "dark will" which keeps him alive when he really should have died. So again, what Palpatine said was correct, from a certain point of view. But it comes at a terrible price - Essentially becoming an abomination of the force is one price. Padme's death is another price, if you believe Anakin and Padme have a symbiotic relationship which means that as Anakin dies and Vader is born, so Padme's death is inevitable.

 

Of course he was correct, since he directly had a hand in her death. If you apply that much pressure to a human throat for what was it? Twelve to fourteen seconds? You're going to damage something vital. The windpipe, the hyoid bone, the jugular vein, the carotid artery...Really, saying he was correct when he was the main cause is kind of foolish. The fact is, he never once considered the fact that she would have excellent medical care. In fact, I don't we're ever shown her getting one ultrasound, or anything. What a waste.

 

Padme actually makes that point to Anakin in the novelization. She tells him that they are on Coruscant, women don't die from childbirth on Coruscant, and her medical droid says she's perfectly healthy.

But I do understand why Anakin believed his vision. He's not exactly a rational person, and he had had a similar vision come true already. What I don't understand is why he was gullible enough to believe Palpatine.

And no, Padme didn't have a single ultrasound, at least until right before she delivered; if she had, they would have known she was carrying twins. But that was Lucas writing himself into a corner, not a fault of the technology in the SW universe.

 

I think you've misinterpreted the cause of her death:

"Medically, she's completely fine. For reasons we can't explain, we're losing her".

Its quite clear the force-choke has no hand in her death, other than assisting in "breaking her heart" further, if that were possible.

Ultimately, medical technology was no cure for Padme's ailments. Clearly, in Star Wars there are things that go beyond medical/scientific understanding. This being established, it would not seem as fool-proof a method as you might presume for Anakin to have merely invested absolute faith in said medical technology alone being the cure to whatever mysterious ailment Padme might end up suffering. In hindsight, had he done nothing, things may well have worked out for the better, yes, but the vision didn't afford him the specifics we as an audience would later establish. Anakin simply didn't want to take the chance, and thus, sought out what he was told would be the one sure-fire method that would prevent any death no matter the cause.

There's nothing to say Palpatine was actually lying though.

 

Yes, I agree. Medical technology was pretty irrelevant to Anakin, because he had visions about his mother that came true. When he had visions about Padme, he assumed he was right and that they would come true too. His assumption was that anything "normal", such as medical treatment, would not change that outcome... and that only this dark side power had the potential to save her.

 

Maybe not. I was just thinking of how commonly this theme has been repeated in literature and mythology: the theme of using any means to stop death, and that while one might gain the path to immortality, one does so at a terrible price. Also, Palpatine claimed that Darth Plagueis taught his apprentice how to stop death but then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Seems like Anakin would have caught the irony.

 

Anakin heard the "save the ones you love from dying" part, but ignored the price at which it would come. For him, everything was magically going to fall into place around him. After all, he was the "Chosen One", and he had a huge ego besides. Why would he not believe in Palpatine's story? It gave him what he wanted to hear, and he eventually decided to try and follow this lead. We see where that got him.

 

The Jedi lines about "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" take their lumps in a lot of quarters, but you know..there is a lot of truth there.

The thought of Padme dying troubles Anakin on multiple levels - and why shouldn't it? Even with Jedi training, that is hard to deal with (incidentally - a window, there, I think into why romantic relationships for Jedi run the risk of dangerous worries and temptations!). But part of what Anakin has a hard time dealing with is his fear of the pain that loss would cause HIM. He is afraid of how HE would feel if Padme dies. He wants to save Padme for her sake, sure, but also for HIS, and on some level maybe even MOSTLY for his. He is terrified to feel that loss and pain, and that fear DOES make him angry, angry at himself for feeling it and being tempted to do something about it (that he knows he shouldn't), resentful and angry at the Jedi for being in the way of him doing something about it (as he sees it!)...which definitely leads to hate, and suffering, aplenty, for a lot of folks (including Anakin). I think we shouldn't overlook the degree to which fear - selfishly expressed, even if its origins are "understandable" - play into this.