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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Anakin's Quest For Power...To Save People From Death

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Aggravated71, Oct 5, 2010.

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  1. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Neat-o. ;)

    Actually, though ...

    The Library of Alexandria was much more than just a library. It was also a place of great learning and research. It had lecture rooms, gardens, great halls for all its scrolls and the like. It was, by all accounts, a pretty magisterial place. Come to think of it, though, the Jedi Temple, if that is to mean the entire complex / compound, had a fair bit of stuff within it, too. In fact, Lucas may have been thinking of the Library of Alexandria as a possible model (in reasonably general terms). In "Cosmos", Carl Sagan famously says that the chief failing of the scholars who ran the Library and worked within it was that they never reached out to the people or seriously challenged any of the prevailing social wisdoms of the day, leading to great suspicion, anger and hatred by those beyond its walls, which culminated in its destruction by a galvanized political mob. In his words: "The permanence of the stars was questioned. The justice of slavery was not." It seems that the Jedi Order of the PT was, in as many ways, befouled by the same arrogance and met the same fate.*

    *Hypatia, keeper of the Library and great mathematician, said to be of great feminine beauty, was brutally murdered by a Christian mob loyal to the then-pope; it is believed that she was dragged from her chariot, stripped naked, and had the flesh flayed from her bones. The brutality of Aayla Secura's death in the Order 66 montage, a great feminine beauty of the Jedi Order, by male clones loyal to a male despotic religious figure who fire repeatedly on her fallen, semi-naked body, is an eerie parallel with Hypatia's last moments.
     
  2. anakin_girl

    anakin_girl Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2000
    The Library of Alexandria was also destroyed by Caesar. Yet another parallel.

    Also, Jocasta Nu symbolizing the arrogance that had overtaken the Order when she said that Kamino could not possibly exist if it couldn't be found in their archives.

    (Library science student here, I can't think of a librarian on Earth who would ever assume that we held as much knowledge as exists on the planet...)
     
  3. FalorWindrider

    FalorWindrider Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2010
    My point wasn't really to make an argument about Rome/Galactic Republic parallels, but rather to show that, really, Jedi really should have been characterized as bigger bookworms than they were, and of a more logical persuasion. Moreover, the Library of Alexandria wasn't purposefully burned by Caesar. It burned during a battle when the Romans had tried to set fire to Alexandria's dock, to prevent Ptolemy from moving troops in by sea. Unfortunately, the flames spread to the library. But the Romans wouldn't have committed arson on the Library, especially considering they were administering the city when the library burned.
     
  4. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Hang on, The Jedi, who invest in psychic visions of both the present and future, believe in ancient prophecies, and move objects and defy the laws of gravity with merely their minds (to name just a couple of the what we might call "magical" things they are capable of) should, as individuals and a body, be of a more "logical persuasion"? I think you have them confused with NASA employees :p They're not scientists - they are, from an archetypal point of view, meant to be more like wizards.
     
  5. SHAD0W-JEDI

    SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002

    More like wizards? Yup! Warrior-Priests or Warrior-Monks? Yup! Which was one reason I found the midichlorian thing to be a big misstep, even though I understand, I think, some of the rationale behind that approach.

    In the "classic" movies - based on a tiny sample size, granted! - I got the sense that the primary characteristics of a Jedi were spiritual, based in character and personality and a "sensitivity" to this underlying cosmic energy/impersonal entity, "The Force". Becoming "in tune with the Force" seemed like "enlightenment", not the happy result of genetics, science and luck.

    Shadow
     
  6. d_arblay

    d_arblay Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Without wanting to turn this debate into another one centering on Midichlorians, I've always thought of them from a storytelling point of view as a bit of a necessary evil. I think Lucas would rather have avoided including them at all - it does remove to some extent another ambiguity that these films so often rely on, but i think he really needed to in order to enforce both Anakin's divinity (for want of a better term) and reason enough to justify him later parting from his Mother. And its not as if this specific "power" being invested in one's biological make-up wasn't hinted at earlier.... Luke mentioned to Leia in ROTJ that "the force is strong in my family" and "you have that power too". Its apparent that The Force, although certainly a cosmic entity sensed by everyone to at least some degree, cant necessarily be manipulated by every single individual... or that ambition alone is no guarantee of gaining such extraordinary abilities. If it was, its likely everyone in the galaxy would be seen telepathically moving objects or performing the jedi mind-trick - making the Jedi and the Sith far less special in the process (which they were always seen to be).

    Making it a far less common power measured in something definable actually gives it more substance for me. It doesn't really remove the mysticism of The Force as some suggest - its only probable in a technological society that you could take many Jedi, perform on them a blood test and note the similarities and trends between the results, comparing them to those of the less-force sensitive, thus finding the probable source of their sensitivity. Making the source merely application and training of oneself alone isn't powerful enough for me. I know the counter-argument is that it should be something immeasurable, but as I said above, if its immeasurable, how do you realistically quantify and invest certainty in Anakin's position as "the chosen one" and therefore justify the later separation from his Mother? That he "sees things before they happen" which we understand as a common "jedi trait"? For me, thats nowhere near enough. That he was apparently the product of a virgin birth? I think we need some kind of ample evidence to back-up such a claim as credible and likely no lie on the part of the Mother, intentional or not. Imagine the scene where Qui-Gon first reveals Anakin to The Jedi Council, minus the Midichlorians:

    QUI-GON: Its possible he was conceived by the force
    YODA: Why say that, do you?
    QUI-GON: His mother informed me of her virginity.
    MACE WINDU: She did, did she....


    :p

    It just doesn't play as well for me.
     
  7. vader_girl

    vader_girl Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2003
    I think you're right, although I don't like the "Chosen One" prophecy at all and I wish Anakin had just been a very gifted Jedi; Qui-Gon could have had his session with the Council and said something along the lines of, "I saw him racing pods. He's the only human who can do it. He is obviously very powerful in the Force, and it would be dangerous to not train him and leave him subject to Dark Jedi or Sith." The Council probably would have had the same response as they did not believe Sith existed.

    As someone who was once a fan of Qui-Gon/Shmi (and still could be), I like your version as well. :p

     
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