PT Anakin's story arc

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by srinivas1015, Oct 6, 2013.

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  1. srinivas1015 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    I have seen the prequels unfairly dissed on many forums and videos, so I just wanna say why I absolutely love them and why I think Anakin's story arc was handled beautifully.
    Yes, this post is long but remember that it's about three movies.


    Episodes I and II are some of the weakest in the saga but once you look past characters like Jar-Jar and the overuse of CGI, I feel it's a great setup for what happens to Anakin in Episode III. You get introduced to Anakin in Ep I and I absolutely love the portrayal by Jake Lloyd. It's absolutely fascinating to see how this really happy good-hearted enthusiastic kid goes from this state to become the very embodiment of evil.


    [IMG] [IMG]


    It's not like he has inner demons or anything, he has a pure heart when we see see him and in fact one of the lines that I believe he utters is "Mom, one of the biggest problems in the universe is that nobody helps each other." Jake's delivery is absolutely perfect with both optimism and sadness.
    It's also established that he has VERY close bond with his mom and and leaving her behind as he goes on to train as a Jedi truly hurts him and this is where I feel the dominos started falling. This is Anakin's first true scar and he gets this fear of losing the people he loves. This fear is what eventually causes his downfall and is why Jedi are not supposed to have attachment. Once he arrives at the council, he is treated as an outcast and isn't trusted by anybody except for Qui-Gon. Adding insult to injury, Anakin loses the only father figure he's known (Qui-Gon) and begins the rocky relationship with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Just by the end of Ep 1, there is a lot of emotional scarring that torments him all throughout his life. I forgot to add that he forms a deep bond with Padme but is separated by the end of the movie.

    Ten years later in EP II, we see that Anakin has become a deeply troubled individual haunted by visions/premonitions of his mother dying and being treated as a second class citizen by the Jedi Council. He tries to confide about his visions with Obi-Wan who simply brushes it off with "dreams pass in time" leading Anakin to bottle up all these worries. His dreams continue day after day before he finally chooses to disobey Obi-Wan and go after his mom but it's too late. He promises himself to never let someone he loves die like this ever again and he feels incredibly guilty for not paying heed to his visions much sooner. Seeing her tortured and murdered by the Tusken tribe is what finally triggers everything that happens in EP II. In the Star Wars universe, you can't change destiny or how things turn out as evidenced by Anakin's self-furfilling prophecy. That being said, I believe Anakin's decision to actively go after his mom is what kick-started the eventual turn of events and everything would've transpired more slowly without this event.
    That's actually why I love this scene. This first shot is more or less a visual metaphor for Anakin racing towards his destiny:

    [IMG]

    Then there's the foreshadowing with Anakin's silhouette looking like Vader. The binary sunset ties it to the original trilogy and it basically foreshadows great change that will occur very soon. In A New Hope, right after the scene with the binary sunset, everything changes - with Luke's aunt & uncle being murdered, Luke rescuing the princess and joining the rebellion and eventually saving the galaxy from tyranny. The binary sunset scene is Attack Of The Clones is basically a mirror of that as everything goes down the drain for Anakin after this scene. I also like how the two suns are a visual metaphor for Anakin's tormented soul. One half of him wants to bring peace and justice to the galaxy while the other half is more concerned with his loved ones. He's torn between his duty to the republic and to his mom/Padme. Anakin's silhouette, which looks like Vader, eventually comes in between the two suns in the scene and this fits perfectly as Vader is basically an amalgam of those two halves. Vader actually sets out to save his wife and child and also wants to bring prosperity to the republic.(Speaking of which, there's this part in the picnic scene where Anakin says he the current democratic system doesn't 'work'. Scenes like this show that Anakin always wanted to being peace to the galaxy, no matter the method.) All of this set to the track 'Duel Of The Fates' by John Williams makes this one of the most beautiful scenes in the entire saga. I will never forget how I felt when I witnessed this scene for the very first time.

    [IMG]



    People give Hayden a lot of flack for his acting but I believe the scene where he loses his mom is simply heartbreaking and so are the next few scenes that follow including his promise on his mom's grave that "he won't fail again.". This is basically what motivates him to do anything in Ep III to save Padme.


    Ep III starts off a bit of a happy note - with Obi-Wan and Anakin on successful missions, the war ending and Anakin finding out he's about to be a father. But the visions start again with Padme dying and after everything that happened in Ep II, Anakin's deeply scarred and is determined to do anything to make sure they don't come true. This is actually why he doesn't listen when Padme tells him that everything is gonna be alright - cos this is exactly what Obi-Wan had told him about his mom. Seeking help from Yoda proves useless as well as he basically tells Anakin to simply rejoice for those who die. On top of all this, the council still doesn't trust him with Mace Windu insulting him at every possible opportunity. Furthermore, he's put in a more difficult position of spying on Palpatine, a person who been nothing but a kind mentor to Anakin ever since he was ten years old. The assignment being off the record gives even more reason for Anakin to suspect the council. This provides a perfect opportunity for Palpatine to lure Anakin to the dark side, especially since he's already prepared to try anything to save Padme.

    Padme and Anakin know that their lives will be over once the Senate and the Council find out that they have a family. Padme wants to seek help from Obi-Wan but Anakin is convinced he'd turn them over instead of helping. I also think Anakin partly blames him for his mother's death. This is actually where the distrust begins to rapidly multiply, with Anakin thinking Padme's secretly confiding in Obi-Wan, the Jedi Council committing treason and also that Palpatine may not be who everybody thinks he is. Then there's the visions and everything that happened before. All of these factors contribute to his turn to the dark side and even after, it's still not a black-and-white choice. He knows what he's doing is wrong but on the other hand he justifies it to himself saying "I'm doing this for us, I'm doing it for Padme, I'm doing it for the sake of the republic..".

    The scene where he is all alone in the Jedi Council chamber with Mace Windu about to kill Palpatine is where it all hits him..his only hope is about to be extinguished and this is where he makes the choice of what is more important - his duty or his family. I love the sunset in the background which basically signifies his last day as Anakin Skywalker.


    But even after all this, he still could have gone back with Padme still willing to look past everything he has done. I find this scene incredibly heartbreaking especially knowing that even now, Anakin could've turned this around. But seeing Obi-Wan makes him think that the one person who he thinks has been loyal - Padme- has betrayed him.


    There are complaints that there isn't enough emotional exchange between Obi-Wan and Anakin but I strongly disagree. Obi-Wan is devastated when he sees Anakin killing younglings but he cannot think of all that as the fate of the galaxy literally rests on his shoulders. He has to be 'professional' and do his job but once Anakin has been neutralised, that's when the wall comes crashing down and Obi-Wan breaks down completely, with Anakin being the closest thing Obi-Wan had to a son/brother and vice-versa.

    In real life, when you know somebody ever since they were a small child, you'll always see him/her as such no matter how many years pass. THis is why I love that the entirety of Ep I deals with Anakin as a kid as it allows the audience to form an attachment as opposed to just showing him for 5mins and jumping several years into the future like in Star Trek (2009) .It was truly heartbreaking to see Obi-Wan look into those same eyes that he has known ever since Anakin was a kid and walk away leaving him for death.

    [IMG][IMG][IMG]



    I think the Anakin arc was done really well and I don't get why people say it was basically a 1-second turn when in fact, it starts to slowly occur starting from episode I. As for some of the dialogue, it reminds me of a Shakespeare play.


    I had made this music video about Anakin's story arc last year :

  2. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah Hayden was fine, the problems were with the script. Like why does he agree to join Palpatine and murder all the Jedi, all the younglings, all the Separatists, and Obi-Wan once he finds out that Palpatine was lying to him the whole time and he can't actually save Padmé? She went into labor like the next day, they didn't have months to sit down and research this obscure Force technique that probably didn't even really exist. Like he doesn't seem even remotely surprised or upset that he killed Mace for nothing, Palpatine tells him he can't actually do what he promised he could do and Anakin doesn't even care, he just gets up and murders everyone he knows because I guess that will help somehow?
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  3. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    He agrees to join Palpatine because Palpatine is the only one who has provided even the possibility of a solution, he's already implicated himself in Mace Windu's murder, and he plans to overthrow Palpatine anyway.

    They lay this out explicitly in the movie: "I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I can overthrow him. And together you and I can rule the galaxy -- make things the way we want them to be!"

    Plus, who says that Palpatine can't save Padmé? He never even gets to try. And Padmé's labor might have been induced early from Anakin's attack on her. In fact, I think it's unlikely she went into a natural labor given that the droid says that they need to operate on her.

    Additionally, while Anakin may certainly plan to kill Palpatine himself, that doesn't mean he can't agree with the system the man intends to put in place.

    I don't really see why this is a case of "bad writing." Palpatine has proven himself to be an extremely powerful Sith Lord, certainly powerful enough to have hidden from the Jedi for so long. If anyone's going to have a way of saving Padmé it's him. Compare this to ROTJ -- why does Luke suddenly decide there's good in Vader? We are given zero indication of this before Luke says "there is still good in him." As far as ANH and ESB show, Vader has tortured and murdered without remorse. He's hurt not only Luke's friends, but Luke himself. Luke has zero evidence that Vader has a shred of goodness left in him. Yet, he willingly lets himself be taken prisoner and risks the Rebellion's success due to his faith. He was right and his faith was validated, but it was certainly less rational than Anakin aligning (temporarily) with Palpatine for his own gain.


    @srinivas1015

    I agree with you on a lot of points, but...Nickelback? Really?
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Oct 6, 2013
  4. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    [face_laugh]
  5. Han Burgundy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3
    Good first post, I appreciate and like a lot of your observations, however...


    This I vehemently disagree with. Sure, "destiny" is always fulfilled in the Star Wars universe, in the sense that Anakin does, in the end, bring balance to the force by destroying the Sith, BUT choices always are the determining factor on how ones destiny arrives.

    Really, the overall story of the saga is an interplay between fate and free will. Destiny allows Anakin to miraculously win the pod race and to become a Jedi with these strange off-worlders who happened to crash there, but it is Anakin who makes the decision to leave his mother behind. It is a decision between a good man he despises and an evil man who can save his wife that acts as the catalyst for Anakins fall. It is Luke, in the 11th hour, who decides not to give in to his rage, not to follow in his fathers footsteps, as he throws his lightsaber to the ground and states proudly "I am a Jedi". And finally, it is Vader's decision, mirroring the one between Mace and Palpatine, at the end of ROTJ that allows him to fulfill his destiny as the chosen one.
    Darth Raiden likes this.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Hmm, a lot here. I don't think I needed to explain that I'm invested in Anakin's story. I've wanted to know who he was, since I saw ROTJ, and that was on its original theatrical run.

    I like that Anakin was shown as a fairly innocent 10-year-old kid. He is as powerless as he possibly can be, as a slave, and his mother is the only person in his life that he cares about and trusts. And he left with Qui-Gon, knowing that he might not see her again but I'm not sure he really understood the implications of becoming a Jedi. I think he saw them as cool action heroes with "laser swords". But he was 10, that's to be expected. And Qui-Gon pushing him on the Council because "the Chosen One" blah blah blah didn't help. There are many reasons why I hated that ****ing prophecy and the pressure it put on Anakin is a minor one (the big one is that it's just stupid, Anakin had choices).

    AOTC comes 10 years later in the time frame and I'm left wondering what the hell happened. The attitude, the anger issues, are more than just teenage angst. Damn, Obi-Wan, I'm surprised your mullet isn't greyer. I totally understand why Anakin reacted the way he did to his mother's death; the way she died was ****ing horrific and his anger came because he felt helpless, and ashamed that he hadn't acted sooner. As far as Obi-Wan though, I don't think he brushed him off. I think that neither Obi-Wan nor anyone else on the Council had any clue how to help Anakin, as they had never known anyone like him, not in their Order anyway.

    And Palpatine constantly blowing sunshine up Anakin's ass didn't help, especially as Anakin, for all his arrogant behavior, had one of the most fragile egos of any character in the films.

    Which brings me to ROTS. Anakin is understandably desperate to save Padme, and of course after all the sunshine blowing, he trusts Palpatine. But I still had a hard time with the fact that, one, if Palpatine had told Anakin that the sky was purple with green polka dots, Anakin would have bought it without looking up; and two, after Anakin's dream, he didn't use One. Rational. ****ing. Thought regarding whether Padme was really in danger. With Shmi, living on Tatooine and to his knowledge still a slave, he had reason to be concerned. If he had dreamed that Padme would be assassinated, it would have made sense, but a Senator on Coruscant dying in childbirth? Not impossible but highly unlikely.

    And after Palpatine told him that wiping out the entire ****ing Temple would help him save Padme, he never asked "How?" That was headdesk-worthy.

    As much as I love Anakin, I can't watch ROTS because he is so monumentally ****ing stupid that I end up yelling at the screen.
  7. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    In the novelization, Anakin was probably far more sympathetic than he ever was in the movies to me. But when it gets to the part where he shrieks "I hate you!" on Mustafar it would have been really satisfying to have Obi-wan respond oh that's nice so do I. -kicks a lava rock at him- >.>!

    It really escalated so quickly. In the end, their friendship which was so unbreakable went up in flames. Somewhere along the way Anakin transformed into a true villain deserving no sympathy from anyone. Obi-wan still thought of Anakin as a brother despite everything that happened. No matter how many times I see it that scene still stuns me into silence.

    I love the music video so much. It's a little peppy for a horrible downfall.
  8. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    So Anakin's logic is "well I was already an accessory to one murder with extenuating circumstances, I might as well go directly commit ten thousand more"?

    Yeah but I'll give the movie the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was already in the thrall of the dark side by then and mad with power. So the desire to rule the galaxy doesn't really account for it.

    Um, Palpatine for one. "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved" = "Sorry I don't actually know how to do that."

    Well as soon as they pop out Obi-Wan and Yoda start giving them away like carnival prizes so natural labor probably wasn't too far off.

    Yeah but he already said he can't do it though.
  9. Visivious Drakarn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2013
    star 2
    A lot to answer. :)

    As long as they're not the weakest... ;)

    Yes, that's the whole point not only of prequels, but of the original trilogy too. Luke was afraid of losing Leia and Han so he went to Cloud City to rescue them, Anakin was afraid of losing his son so he decided to throw his master over the railing.

    There are many throughout the PT. Remember Obi-Wan's line: Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?

    That's right.

    Well, yes and no. Anakin's turn is mostly built on his tragedies. In order to achieve something in his life, he had to experience some kind of unpleasant event that detached him from his loved ones. To become a Jedi he had to leave his mother. His mother's death pushed him towards the dark side, towards experiencing more power it offers. Events in ROTS sealed the deal, by killing all the Jedi and the Separatists Anakin thought he'll gain power to save Padme, but not only he didn't, he killed her. So he eventually became more powerful, but he lost everyone he cared about. His turn actually happened in one second, he agreed to serve Palpatine in order to gain more power. The events of Episodes 1 and 2 explained why.
    I'll add just a couple of things.
    First, as I said, Anakin gained more power on personal tragedies. His new master, Sidious, gained more power on tragedies of the others. He became chancellor by suffering of Naboo's people. He gained executive powers by starting the Clone wars. He became the Emperor by destroying the Republic and the Jedi.
    Second, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Yoda was right. Anakin feared the world without his mother. When he lost her, he became angry on her killers and in anger he killer Padme. In the end all he was left of was suffering which lasted till his redemption.
    Third, let's not forget the OT. My personal impression is that after the PT was completed, it shifted OT's focus from Luke to Vader. Although Vader's argauably supporting role remained the same, the PT made him more important in our eyes and Luke became just a mean for Vader's redemption. Perhaps the sequels will correct that impression. And in the OT Vader has an arc. Act one - closing the PT chapter by confronting Obi-Wan. Act two, and basically start of the Vader's OT story, confronting and seducing his son. Sadly, we missed the best part, Vader's discovery of Luke. Act three is Vader's last minutes, when he broke and saved his son.
    srinivas1015 likes this.
  10. srinivas1015 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Anakin was in a place where he was no longer thinking rationally or logically. How he reaches this place is what eps I & II show. He knows that however unlikely, Palpatine was now his only choice. Even if there was a 1% chance of saving her, he was willing to take it.

    I also always looked at that scene as the dark side literally 'consuming' Anakin to such an extent that it controls his chain of thought and actions. He literally looks 'sick' in this scene and even his eyes almost make him look like a junkie. This is taken to the extreme later on Mustafar when his eyes go fully yellow.

    I know :p, but I heard that song and instantly thought of Anakin's arc (as weird as it may sound).

    Thanks :) .
    I actually always thought of it this way - the end will always be the same, it's only the means that can change in the Star Wars saga. Anakin was always going to kill Palpatine and bring balance to the force, it would've happened in ROTS itself if he had helped Mace. I don't know if we're allowed to take about this in this forum section, but the Star Wars Infinities comics show this. A single event occurs differently and changes a few things but the end result always remains the same.
    I know Lucas put the Mace scene to mirror the one in ROTJ like you said but this brings up an interesting point - Would the force make the events transpire similarly over and over until Anakin made the right decision? If had let Luke die, would the exact same scenario happen again? (Maybe this time with Leia?)
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Oct 7, 2013
  11. srinivas1015 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't know how to help him, as I'm sure they never experienced those emotions for themselves. (In a way, they're like Spock trying to understand emotions :p ). But I still fault Yoda for not being more gentle/consoling when Anakin pleads for help. It's even more heartbreaking to find out that Yoda knew all along and was never going to actively punish Anakin for it (The Padme relationship). Anakin being given that assurance would've gone a long way as he was constantly worried about what would happen once the baby was born. I know Yoda in his own way was telling Anakin he couldn't stop people from dying but I hate the way he put it. Talk about bad bedside manners!

    I think Anakin's behavior in AOTC is completely realistic. He thought being a Jedi would be 'cool' like you said but for ten years he was treated as a second-class citizen/outsider, Obi-Wan never gave him his approval despite being successful, he missed his mom, had nightmares about her, was separated from Padme, who also sidelined him at first. Of coarse he'd be grouchy. I see Anakin as a good person but people stepped on him over and over until he reached his breaking point.

    I don't thin Anakin was oblivious to the type of person Palpatine was. He was intrigued by him but grew more and more suspicious until he made the fateful discovery. Even then, he knew he was literally making a deal with the devil but here is a man who was about to lose everything. He also knew Palpatine could be lying but he was willing to try anything at that point. He wasn't in a state of rational thought. As for killing younglings, I choose to believe his actions were controlled/manipulated by the dark side like I mentioned in the post above. Yoda from ESB "The dark side, consume you it will, like it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.". We know that the force can guide a Jedi, as evidence by Luke not needing his targeting computer in ANH. What's to say the dark side of the force didn't guide Anakin's actions when he marched into the temple and killed the people on Mustafar?

    Thank you :) .

    I actually wish that Anakin looked up and managed to croak out "Help me.." (instead of "I hate you" ) and Obi-Wan walked away. It would have been more tragic and would've fuelled Anakin's anger towards him even more.

    Mod Edit: -It is considered spam to post, back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back.
    So, I merged all of them into 2 coherent posts to clean things up just a bit. ~Sx3 :)
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Oct 7, 2013
  12. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
  13. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    I completely, 100% agree with you. Totally. Rock on man.
    srinivas1015 likes this.
  14. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    No, Anakin's logic is (as far as I can tell) as follows:

    After he cuts off Mace's hand, he essentially has three choices:

    1. He can run away with Padmé and try to build a life elsewhere

    2. He can stay faithful to the Jedi

    3. He can join Palpatine

    In scenario #1, he has no idea where he would go or what he would do. This also, unfortunately, doesn't solve the immediate possibility of Padmé dying. And it's doubtful that Palpatine would let him run off just like that. At the very least, given that he would still be considered a Jedi, Order 66 might prove troublesome.

    In scenario #2, a good number of people on the Jedi Council are dead by Palpatine's hands. But Anakin's not sure of the Jedi's intentions and Mace's actions -- of taking the law into his own hands and disregarding the Jedi Code -- have further muddled the issue. Furthermore, if he goes against Palpatine, it's unlikely that Palpatine will let him leave the office alive. And even if he did succeed in killing Palpatine, the man's puppet's are still in the Senate and there's no telling how they would respond to the Chancellor's assassination. Choosing to side with the Jedi also means that Anakin still has no idea how to save Padmé. If Anakin is faithful to the Jedi, then, he has very little to gain and risks losing a great deal -- he's not certain what's going on with the Jedi, he'll either be killed or have to kill Palpatine, there's no guarantee he won't be prosecuted by the Senate, and (as far as he knows) Padmé will die.

    In scenario #3, if Anakin sides with Palpatine, he might be able to find a way to save Padmé -- it might not be 100%, but it's the only chance he's been offered. Here, he plans to pledge himself to Palpatine, allow the formation of the Empire, then dispose of the man and take his place. This will also allow him to -- in one fell swoop -- end the Clone Wars since it's clear Palpatine has been controlling both sides. If everything goes the way Anakin wants then:

    1. Padmé will live
    2. An empire will be formed
    3. Anakin will kill Palpatine and rule with Padmé
    4. The Clone Wars will be brought to an immediate halt

    Given how often Anakin talks about how he's going to end the war and bring peace, #4 is a pretty important point. Because by siding with Palpatine, Anakin is given immediate access to the Separatist leadership and is able to deactivate the droids.

    Simply put, if Anakin sides with Palpatine, then there's a chance he can keep his wife and rule the galaxy. If he sides with the Jedi, then his wife will likely die, they'll have to mop up the rest of the Clone Wars (which could go on for a period of weeks or longer, given the scale of the conflict), and he's not certain what the Jedi or the Senate will do. Furthermore, Anakin has never believed that the Republic is functional and this (in his eyes) inefficient and wasteful system will still be in place, rather than a streamlined (in his view) system that will better serve the needs of the people.

    If he has to kill people to achieve this, then I imagine, in his eyes -- so be it. Yes, it's thousands of Jedi, but innocent civilians will die anyway as the Clone Wars conclude and he can make people's lives better by forming the Empire. That's the rationalization he gives himself as far as I can tell.

    I'm not sure about that. Anakin was pretty angry with Palpatine when he revealed his identity -- he said he wanted to kill him, and he certainly never gives up on his ambition of ruling the galaxy. I don't think Anakin liked the idea of leaving the galaxy in the hands of someone who so freely toyed with so many lives (including Anakin's own). He probably thought (in his great arrogance) that he and Padmé could do a better job. Anakin believes in the Empire, seems to have done so for a long time. But he doesn't trust Palpatine all that much anymore -- seems to me he's using him while he still can.

    That doesn't mean it's impossible, though. If you know someone who has achieved your goal, it certainly makes it easier. Regardless, though, Palpatine only has to offer Anakin the possibility to gain more points than the Jedi, who tell him to simply accept death.

    What else were they going to do with them? Leave them next to Padmé's body? If they're a month early, they'd be pretty healthy -- I was born three weeks premature (as was my little brother) and we required no extra supervision in particular.

    He didn't say he couldn't do it. He said he didn't know how, yet, but was confident they could discover the key secret. But that certainly implies that it's possible. Is it foolish to trust Palpatine? Of course, but Anakin was desperate and had a fool's hope. When your options are (in your mind) certain death or possible death, it's not hard to see why he chose as he did, especially given how emotional he can be.
  15. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Where - please, where - do you get this:
    \

    Is that "proven" by being called "my young padawan" multiple times or do you base this on, um, what? In AoTC Mace and the Council trusted Anakin to protect Padme. Obi-Wan had some (deservedly so) apprehensions.

    I'd say more, but I'll wait for your clarification on why you feel your assertion to be accurate (and of course, if it's "just a feeling" that is okay, as opinions are not wrong, but I'm curious as to your reasons).
    TX-20 and SithStarSlayer like this.
  16. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    Desperation doesn´t mix well with rational thinking. Palpatine gave him hope, Yoda gave him BS (letting go is different from giving up, you stupid frog). Palpatine is also brilliant, before sending him to the temple he warns Anakin he must embrace the DS as much as possible in order to have the power to save Padmé. I´d say he embraces that fear in order to attack his former companions. He must dive as deep as possible into the DS.

    And the point with dreaming of Padmé´s death was he had been getting warnings about his mother for about a month or so. He lacked proper advice because Jedi didn´t investigate how the Force reacted to emotions. His mother died - so when it starts again of course he´s going to believe Padmé is going to die. Yoda´s "advice" didn´t help much either.

    About what happened between TPM and AOTC, imho Jedihood happened. You have a very emotional and overprotected kid and place him within an order that shuns emotions. He became a boiler (and don´t understand criticism of Hayden, because it really shows in voice and facial language when it´s supposed to), we add frustration because he thinks he´s not progressing as much as he could (and RotJ Luke > RotS Anakin, so he´s right), and we get Ep II Anakin. OB1 also seemed the kind of teacher who thinks doing things perfect is your duty and will then point every little failure you have - we see how Jedi tend to lose their Lightsabers a lot. Doubt that did help. It´s clear he cares for him, but there´s no trust, something Palpy uses to his advantage.

    You have someone who has "Chosen One" written in body and soul, and he is born somewhere he won´t be found for years. The question to ask is "why?", not "should we train him?". Jedi are like priests more concerned about their church than about God - and they end up paying for it, and the galaxy falls along with them.
    Darth Raiden likes this.
  17. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I thought Anakin's actual turn when he's going "what have I done lol k i'll join you palps lol" was incredibly weak.
  18. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    That and his sith naming were surprisingly low key moments, didn´t feel at all the significance they should have.

    But that moment itself isn´t lol imho. It´s Anakin realizing his fear has overwhelmed him, and accepting the only source of hope he has at hand. He plays along because he can´t face the alternative, his certainty that Padmé would die otherwise. Ironically, the answer was in the first thing he was taught... focus determines reality, visions out of fear show where that fear will end, same with Luke´s hate based one in the cave.
  19. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    Most people are either pro or con when it comes to Anakin's arc and turn scene, where I fall somewhere in the middle. I actually thought Lucas got it right in TPM & AOTC with Anakin's arc, but the ROTS turn scene was terribly executed and not believable.

    I had no problem with Anakin being a good kid in TPM, because that was Lucas's point was to show the fans he wasn't the 'bad kid on the block' that was destined to be Darth Vader. I thought AOTC began to show the cracks in his personality, and I could relate to his actions with the tuskens as revenge for the death of a loved one is very believable and you never know what a person would do in that situation.

    Where Lucas lost me was in ROTS, and sadly the ROTS Novel was so much better and I wish he had used that on screen. What bothers me to this day is not Anakins turn to the dark side, its his first action after taking that oath. His first action is to slaughter all jedi at the temple including younglings 5 minutes after being on their side? Did he see the other 3 Jedi that were dead when he entered the room with Mace fighting Palpatine? If Lucas would have had Anakin kill the jedi in the temple later in the movie, maybe it would have worked. Sorry, but it just never sat well with me and it its shame because I was a Lucas defender on the PT with TPM/AOTC, but he lost me with ROTS.
    Last edited by Carbon1985, Oct 10, 2013
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  20. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    I'm sorry. I cannot get past your comments on Episodes I and II.
  21. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    ROTS used far more CGI than TPM and AOTC ;)

    I don't know if you're aware of it, but - originally - Anakin was supposed to say "Help me, Master" first and then, after Obi-Wan refused to help him, yell "I hate you". Lucas cut it out fairly late because he "didn't want Anakin to be redeemed".
    Personally, I would have liked to hear it as well because that would have hightlighted the "split personality" that Anakin was at this point. Like a single moment when Anakin thought they might, perhaps forget about all this and just be friends again. But then, naturally, he realizes this is all too late and blames Obi-Wan with all of his hatred for all the things he lost, which is - in essence - his entire life.

    Generally, I'm a great admirer of Anakin's story arc as well.
    I think it's actually the best that Star Wars can offer, by far. Luke comes fairly close, but not close enough. I just really like the way his arc is structered.
    Episode I as the film that lays the roots to all this. His slave background, him being powerless, wanting to help, having grown up with his mother and having learnt to become attached.
    Episode II's contribution is rather underrated, too. I feel that this movie really explores the character - from his greatest fears to his biggest desires. I can hardly believe it when people call him "one-dimensional" or anything like that in AOTC, that's shocking. I like the change from that over-confident, megalomaniac (If you'd spend as much time working on your saber skills as you do on your wit, young Padawan, you wouldrival Master Yoda as a swordsman - I thought I already did) young man who would put his friends into danger with levity (You're using her as bait? - Don't worry, no harm will come to her. I can sense everything going on in that room. Trust me.) for succes to that traumatized, overly protective (Lower the ship! / I can't leave her!) man later in the film who experienced the pain of death and loss first-hand.
    The events of Episode III are just the logical pay off to that, imo. He swore and promised at his mother's grave that he won't fail again. I know promises are regularly broken one day later nowadays, but Anakin was obviously a bit old-fashioned :);)
    His actions where horrifying, of course, but I could see that happening and his rationale. Piett'sHat argued nicely. I think people also tend to forget the effects of using the dark side. It's made clear by Palpatine in ROTS and by Yoda in TESB. All that murders certainly obscured his rational thought process and still: he was portrayed as being deeply confliced about it (tears etc.).
    Last edited by Samnz, Oct 11, 2013
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  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    What if he did? By that point he knew Palpatine was a Sith and that the Jedi had showed up to arrest him. And then what happened with Mace became kind of a point of no return.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 12, 2013
  23. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    The funny thing is, Anakin probably didn't see them. Mace and company arrive to Palpatine's private office, where Palpatine quickly kills the other Jedi. They then duel down the hall and move into Palpatine's office for official business -- the one with the enormous glass window that they shatter. We see Anakin arrive and run into the Senate, but he heads straight for the "official" office as far as I can tell. In all likelihood, he didn't see the dead Jedi.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Oct 12, 2013
  24. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    That's sort of a moot point, but you're probably right. Mace already boarded a ship full of Jedi and said to Anakin, "Wait in the council chambers until we return." Anakin had to have figured the others had been either killed or incapacitated. Hell, when Anakin enters, Mace has his saber at Palpatine's throat, and while Anakin initially offers an unsympathetic look to Palpatine, he is moved to extract him from his plight some moments later. Young Skywalker's thinking was clouded and became all the more so, but I don't believe Anakin was THAT naive in the first place; I'd contend there was a certain base reality he was acting (at least, initially) in accordance with. From his POV, I think it's reasonable to speculate that Anakin came to believe the Jedi had acted with evil intent in Palpatine's office, and thus -- again, from his POV -- deserved their violent end; whether that end was witnessed by Anakin or not. Not that that invalidates your observations (as directly above), though, which are obviously neutral with respect to that particular issue.
  25. TheWatcher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2013
    star 1
    I respect your opinion but I disagree completely. Anakin's arc is by far the weakest storyline in the prequels...quite dichotomic considering his arc in the OT is the strongest. But it all plays out as follows: good boy is chosen one, chosen one becomes arrogant, arrogant teen loses mother and throws tantrum, chosen one turns to egotistical greedy knight, knight fights for wife and gives his soul to the devil so no to lose her but still does by his hand no less, the knight become the Dark Lord. Simplistic is my summary? Yeah well you need to cut the fat to get to the juicy meat and this steak lacking it. The story is predictable from start to finish, the story is fouled by muddy acting from Jake and Hayden. The story needed more plotting. The title Lucas gives us to the first part of his saga as the tragedy of Anakin....what tragedy can be viewed from an otherwise formulaic natural progression of evil. Tragedy is a surpring sad turn in an otherwise happy story. What tragedy comes from maniacal, arrogant, possessive, greedy man becoming evil? It sounds more Lifetime Moviesque than a Cambell former student.
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