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Discussion Analysis of The Force Awakens (Themes, Symbolism, etc.)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Artoo-Dion, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. I Are The Internets Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    I love the poster in general.
    MOC Vober Dand likes this.
  2. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    The film shows the "goddess trinity " or rather the "Force user goddess trinity"

    Crone: Maz Kanata, the Superego
    Matron: Leia, the Ego
    Maiden: Rey, the Id

    The film also shows the "3 faces of Adam", the 3 phases of a man's life boiled down to the simplest parts.

    The Hunter: Finn. Desperate kid making his first time out in the world, seeks a cause, scared of the future.
    The Lord: Poe. Established skills. Maintains reputation. Must find balance to further goals without risk.
    The Prophet: Han. The old man who knows he's at the end of his life. Given up on his aspirations of realized he's done all he can do. Seeks to give the youth an advantage through his knowledge.
    Last edited by cerealbox, Oct 2, 2016
  3. Ricardo Funes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2015
    star 4

    For me that has a deeper meaning... it represents a similarity between both of them, their weapons are shown side by side.... why?

    It is normal for two antagonists to be shown crossing their blades, not having them in parallel.... why?

    Theories.... :)
  4. MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 5
    The full extent of the similarities between them will no doubt be revealed by the end of the ST. So far we just have hints of the connection, the weapons in the poster being one.
  5. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Hidalgo said that Palpatine made sure that Stormtroopers enlisted willingly in order to minimize the chanced of defection. If Finn is anything to go by, Palpatine was right.
  6. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    Just realize another mirror of TFA and the OT.
    When Poe radios to everyone that he's has the Falcon in his sights on the exploding Starkiller and is relieved is just like in ESB when that pilot finds Han and Luke in the morning on Hoth.
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  7. Ricardo Funes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2015
    star 4
    When Han falls, the bottom of the pit is full of light instead of being dark.

    In a way he was embraced by the light.
  8. Ord Sorrell Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2016
    star 3
    That was a great scene, I saw it as a sign of consanguinity to Luke. Luke's scenes in ESB wearing a similar helmet piloting an airspeeder against the AT-AT.. but also as a lite recreation of the scene in which Luke stares at the twin suns, yearning for something more out of life... Rey's was a bit more playful and Luke's more melancholy... but I think it represented the same thing... that deep down Rey wants more...

    anyway one of my fav scenes for sure, also made me really like Daisy for Rey
    Last edited by Ord Sorrell, Oct 25, 2016
  9. Martoto77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    I see a life lesson in there too. Rey wallowing in her lot, after glimpsing the old woman at the outpost, carries a little warning "Don't just sit on your butt gaming, thinking, dreaming about it. Go out and do it."
  10. Ghost_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 6
    Same, one of my favorite Rey scenes. She seems as an innocent as a child in this scene.

  11. WebLurker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2016
    star 4

    It also made her seem less like a "hero character" and more like a person, in a good way; A lot of people wear or have memorabilia of stuff that they're fans of in some way. (In fact, the Rey's Story book had her wearing that helmet while running a fighter practice run on her flight sim, humanizing her even more.) It also kind of foreshadowed her piloting skills and I'm sure that fans are still speculating if there's a connection between Rey's name and the name "Rhae" printed on the helmet in Star Wars script.
  12. Ghost_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 6
    Scroll down to #27

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  13. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 4
    back to the king arthur stuff, kylo and the knights of ren (the knights of the round table). snoke and kylo aren't sith. they have a somewhat more equitable relationship. kylo isn't bowing to snoke or calling him master. snoke is his dark merlin. he probably has a similar relationship to the knights of ren. there is more light in snoke than in the emperor from the ot. even though obviously all of them are on the dark side they don't want to run things the way the sith did before them.

    i agree with the little red riding hood comments (i hadn't noticed this until i read this thread, though i had, i just hadn't noticed i noticed). kylo ren is very much like the wolf. he is so very hungry. if he eats little red riding hood will he finally be fulfilled? will he ever be satiated? sadly for him the answer is no.

    also this is my favorite symbolism (though it was in ANH too).

    eta: rey as earth and kylo as air. i thought the very slight amusement he had at how afraid she had been to leave jakku kind of showed the contrast. kylo would never fear leaving. he fears staying.
    Last edited by oncafar, Jan 11, 2017
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  14. MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 5
    Nice observation.
    Last edited by MOC Vober Dand, Jan 11, 2017
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  15. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 4
    I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but when Maz Kanata's Castle begins to crumble and Kylo's shuttle appears from behind it, I get the distinct feeling of a dragon joining the battle and destroying everything in its path.
  16. Gigoran Monk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 4
    Maz was, quite literally, the Lady in the Lake who delivers the magic sword.
  17. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 4
    Oooh, and right before the "dragon shot", Maz says "Those beasts! They're here!"...
    Last edited by Lulu Mars, Feb 12, 2017
  18. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 4
    i'm not sure this is the right thread for this. i'd thought of starting a new thread but didn't have the guts. in any case, i've been trying to break down all the parallels in TFA (primarily to ANH)--so this isn't really symbolism or themes. it's parallels and "call backs." it fits into the "etc." part of the subject of the thread.

    also it will take more than one post as i sort of got tired of writing on my notepad while viewing TFA, so it petered out towards the end.

    in the opening scene(s) of the film the characters poe, lor san tekka, finn and kylo ren are all in the place of ANH characters, and it is pretty consistent.

    poe = more often leia, but sometimes luke = M (messenger) and H (hero)
    lor san tekka = obi-wan kenobi (old ben) = W (wise man)
    finn = luke more or less = H (hero)
    kylo ren = darth vader = V (villain)
    bb-8 = r2 = D (droid)
    map to luke = death star plans (hope, in both cases) = X
    first order = empire = E (enemy)
    jakku = tatooine

    often although a TFA character is in a place of an ANH one, it is clear they are very different than the ANH character.

    Princess Poe and the Galaxy's Hope

    TFA: W passes X to M. but E makes it impossible for M to complete the mission. M entrusts X with D. D is told to run and wait for M to come back (no plan, no coordinates).

    ANH: M is trying to get X to W, but E makes it impossible for M to complete the mission. M entrusts X with D. D is sent to approximate coordinates to find W.

    so as you see, it's reversed: W-->M vs. M-->W. in ANH, M includes an actual message to W, a plea that he help her (that he is their only hope). in TFA, M has no message to deliver anyone.

    other differences:
    - E. in TFA the FO arrives unexpectedly and there is no time. in ANH there is enough time for Leia to come up with an alternative solution and set it in motion.
    - it is night on jakku, but day on tatooine.
    - there is life hidden in the sands of jakku whereas tatooine's sands seem dead.
    - both BB-8 and R2 are left on alien desert worlds that are frightening to them, but for BB-8 the situation is far more uncertain. he doesn't have a destination; he's just supposed to wait for poe to return for him.
    - in general it seems that the TFA situation is more hopeless; it is darker.

    poe btw treats BB-8 like some cross between a child and a pet. he's sending the child away carrying precious information (the galaxy's hope--a way). this reminds me of rey who remembers being asked to stay because her family would return for her. she was a small child and she is precious (the galaxy's hope--a way). rey and BB-8 later bond because rey knows "all about waiting." she also jests that she too is classified. big secret.

    Not-Darth-Vader vs. Not-Obi-Wan

    i think that both LST and Obi-Wan choose to face KR and DV respectively, but for very different reasons. LST hopes that just maybe he can reach KR, this boy he once knew. Obi-Wan knows that this fight with DV will be his last. to him, DV is more machine than man--there's no one in there left to reach.

    KR comments on how old LST has become (there is a vanity and cruelty in this), while DV says "your powers are weak old man" to Obi-Wan. in general there is more sympathy (however slight and indiscernible) coming from DV. he tells Obi-Wan he should not have come back (it's implied that he could have avoided this, but now he will be another of DV's defeated foes).

    LST tells KR that the FO came from the dark side but KR did not--that he can't escape the truth that is his family. Obi-Wan tells DV that he is a master of evil. and so in TFA, W doesn't consider V a full villain (yet) and thinks there's a chance he might be able to sway him. in ANH, W considers V a full villain and sees no chance to save him. ironically, it turns out to be easier to save DV than KR.

    in both TFA and ANH, V strikes W down with his lightsaber. Obi-Wan surrenders to this moment (chooses it) and closes his eyes. He had warned that if DV strikes him down he'll become more powerful than DV can imagine. for LST, there isn't an equivalent. LST is *not* Obi-Wan, just as KR is *not* DV. they are simply in the *place* of the ANH character.

    Poe is not Luke

    like luke, poe is an incredible pilot and serves the resistance (rebels). poe (now H) reacts as luke does in ANH to W's murder by V. poe fires at V whereas luke was prevented from doing so (force ghost obi-wan told him to run). this scene foreshadows the climax in which V (KR) slays W (han solo) while H (rey) watches but is too far away to do anything about.

    KR freezes the blaster bolt mid-air. unlike DV in the beginning of ANH he doesn't bother with choking poe or getting angry. he brings himself down to poe's level and considers. this is another way perhaps in which KR is not DV.

    Kylo Ren and Darth Sidious

    KR says, "kill them all." this reminded me of sidious saying, "wipe them out. all of them" in TPM.

    Princess Poe continued

    there is one trooper for poe as opposed to like a whole squadron for leia in ANH. KR interrogates poe as DV interrogates leia. DV personally handled leia's interrogation, whereas poe was tortured by other FO people before KR arrived. neither poe nor leia will be intimidated! KR/DV are impressed by the resistance put up by poe/leia. poe breaks under interrogation while leia doesn't. poe is not leia.

    The Rescue

    finn's private moment of taking off the stormtrooper helmet reminded me of han and luke disguising themselves as stormtroopers in ANH. finn is taking off the false mask; han and luke are putting on the mask. i was also reminded of when luke comes to rescue leia, she says "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" luke doesn't make a convincing stormtrooper. finn is not truly a stormtrooper either, even though he at least for a while made a convincing one.

    finn (H) anxiously breaks poe out of his cell, whereas luke (H) bravely rescued leia. they both declare "this is a rescue!" poe is suspicious of finn's motives for the "rescue" whereas leia trusts luke's motives quickly. all luke had to do was say he was with obi-wan.

    poe and finn bond over mutual understanding of self-interest (they are both 'han solo characters'); leia and luke bond over mutual understanding of selflessness.

    leia doesn't recognize luke's name (no one she's heard of, no one important); finn has no name (only a designation) and poe has to give him one.

    finn and poe are not luke and leia.

    Kylo and Hux vs. Vader and Tarkin

    KR and Hux are rivals and they conflict; whereas DV and tarkin tend to find agreement/harmony. both KR/DV tend to put their personal objectives first creating issues for hux/tarkin. KR wants to find/kill luke more than prevent the resistance the chance of finding luke. DV wants to find/destroy the rebel base more than prevent the rebels from a chance to use the death star plans to their advantage.

    KR tries to intimidate hux to get his way. DV convinces tarkin of the merits of his plan to let the MF escape with the plans and track it to find the rebel base. once again KR is not DV.
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  19. christophero30 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    star 1

    Yes I loved that scene as well. The way she puts on the helmet and chews with her mouth open says with one scene that she is still a kid in some ways and was raised alone or with little supervision. And perhaps her lack of attatchments will make her a stronger Jedi. :)