Analyzing Padme's age gap and Anakin's turn to the dark side.

I remember this was discussed in another thread. It was stated and I agree, that it may have Padmè been willing to have a "no strings attached" relationship with Anakin judging by the way she acted in ATOC knowing it was the only way they could be together but because Anakin was perhaps inexperienced to interpretate her signals or too much of a gentlemen for such a thing it didn't happen. Even if it did happen, how long it would have lasted? I don't think they would have settled for anything but marriage for too long.

 

But she loves Anakin the whole time. She was hiding it since the saw each other for the first time after her assassination attempt. She told him of her feelings for him on Geonosis because she thought that they were going to die then.

 

Still doesn't explain how any sane or rational woman could honestly say they love a man who they've known as an adult for all of three or four days. You see, women who actually go through with this in this fashion either end up yelling from their trailer park in a tube top while the cops haul the husband to the slammer. Or they get the marriage annulled, and later blame it on the booze. Or the woman waits a while, gets a divorce, and nabs half the cash from a husband too stupid to get to know his wife BEFORE tying the knot. Or, in extreme and unfortunate cases, the woman ends up dead in a dumpster. It shows Lucas' poor understanding of human relationships when he honestly cannot differentiate between love and lust within a story. Conflating the two is VERY dangerous in real life.

And don't tell me it was the "Will of the Force." That's deterministic garbage, and it's an example of a dead trope. That's like saying you lost your money in the stockmarket because Mercury is retrograde, rather than because you made stupid investments.

 

Once some deterministic garbage is added to this mix, it's amazing how quickly it can spread.

 

Whatever attraction Senator Amidala had for Anakin, it was rational. I understand what you're saying. The women you describe sound like the lonely depsrete type that instantly loves a man who she's been looking for all her life. It sounds 100% insane but I don't think that was the situation in Padme's case. From what I saw on sreen, she saw this young man that she remembered as a little boy. She remembered having a strong liking for the little boy. But the small boy is a young man now, and nothing like the little boy she had once known. I think Padme fell in love with Anakin after that first kiss but she was fighting those feelings she had for him until she confessees them to him.

 

^^^^^ This.

I'm not buying any "will of the Force" talk either, but I also don't believe it was as simple as Padme being desperate for a man or Padme only liking Anakin for his looks.

The picnic scene, to me, was important, along with the rest of the trip to Naboo, which we did not see except in the DVD deleted scenes. It showed them having fun together. Yes, it was only a few days, but it was a few days of spending pretty much all of their time together and doing nothing but spending time together. Padme was physically attracted to Anakin, she remembered a boy from 10 years earlier that she had been fond of, and she enjoyed his company. None of that makes a marriage, but it hardly constitutes lust either.

I know all we see on the film was Anakin doing something dorky with a piece of fruit and Anakin riding a shaak, plus the conversation in which she talks about Palo and he teases her about politics, but I think there is a lot we don't see. Especially since the scenes in Padme's parents' house were cut.

 

I don't agree with the theory, because there is no evidence that Padme found nine year old Anakin attractive. And I don't believe their relationship was "creepy" either. Anakin wasn't really aggressive with Padme when he was trying to hit on her. When she tells him to back off, he does. Also, she is not scared because Anakin is a "stalker." She is scared because she is afraid to fall in love. And she has perfect reason to be afraid, because Anakin is a Jedi and they are not allowed to fall in love.

The idea that Anakin loves Padme because she resembles his mother doesn't work either, because she was already falling in love with him before his mother died; she was just trying to deny her feelings about Anakin, and finally confessed her feelings for him as they were about to die. Honestly, I am not surprised that you came up with this theory. You could make up this theory for any orphan who falls in love with a girl. In fact, Harry Potter fans have theorized that Harry fell in love with Ginny because she resembled his mother.

But I agree with you, anakin_girl. Their relationship could have been more developed. Sadly, it didn't get a chance to develop because the shortness of the movie. However, GL could have at least kept the scene of Anakin and Padme visiting Padme's family. That, at least, would have added a little more development in their relationship. He should have shortened the action scenes as well, and taken out the Boba Fett scenes, which would have been okay because Boba Fett is a minor character.

P.S: *Desperate* for a man? She seemed quite the opposite to me. If she was truly desperate for Anakin, she wouldn't have kept rejecting him. No offense, but I am really not feeling your theory.

 

Padme wasn't THAT much older. It was 4 years and Padme had reached the point where girls mature very quickly. It was that contrast that looked wrong. Anakin had a lot of growing to do and as we know boys do this later and slower.

I was surprised looking through the movies at the absolute lack of mirroring between Padme and Shmi. We know George loves to give us meaning through repetition but there is very little. The only one I can think of runs through all three generations of Skywalker women
Shmi: This path has been placed before you.
Padme: You're going down a path I can't follow
Leia: He must choose his own path; no one can choose it for him

Anakin force chokes Padme because of Palpatine's poisonous manipulation. We actually see that he never really blames her for anything. He blames Obi Wan for any betrayal and Padme remains pure in his eyes. By becoming a martyr she keeps Anakin's light alive in Vader that Luke can pick up on years later when he echoes her words.There was a quote at the end of the revenge of the sith novelisation that sums it up 'For one light is all it takes to hold back the darkness. Love is more the one light. Love can ignite the stars'

Here is the course of events in Padme's head

-They m

 

A post from a lurker, and a very welcome one! Maybe you shouldn't lurk so much?

 

Look, I've flirted with women. Most men have, and for that matter, some women too. But it's a rare person who gets married a scant few days afterward. From what we see, Padme's attraction is purely physical - and for that matter, so is Anakin's. Padme has very little knowledge of Anakin's personality even after four days, or else she would have been savvier about the darker parts, especially after he slaughtered an entire tribe of Sand People (admittedly, it's a "Kick the Son of a B****" moment, but still). And Anakin couldn't care less about Padme's work in the Senate. It's all about him. He spends all his time with her whining about Obi-Wan. Oh, and he admits that he supports fascism, but she misses this one completely. We're told this is the great love story gone wrong, but it seems unhealthy from the start.

And frankly, what we see doesn't matter, especially since, of what we didn't see, we weren't told either. This is why sacrificing scenes relating to character development is such a bad idea.

 

You know, even though I am a Anakin fan, I believe he should of gotten punished for what he did. Still, Padme isn't the only one who he told. He told Chancellor Palpatine, who is an authority. The Chancellor, of course, didn't tell anyone, but that's not Anakin's fault because most authorities would tell on him. I can understand that Padme should of told on him or gotten him help, but if she would have just broke up with him right then and there, that would of been cruel because he was crying and had just lost his mother. Padme's not like that, thank God. Wait---isn't Padme a Senator, and therefore an authority? That means that the only people Anakin told were authorities, although people like to brush off that little fact.

Even when she heard he killed Younglings in ROTS, she just wanted to get Anakin help but still loved him. She didn't really break up with him, in my eyes. She simply said she couldn't become Anakin's empress, because she disliked dictatorship. While Anakin's actions are unexusable, they are not unforgivable for some people. Whether they are forgivable or unforgivable is something that you choose, and it seems that you believe they are unforgivable. Good for you, but I'd rather not hold a grudge against a fictional character. Even if Palpatine showed signs of repentence, I'd forgive him because I'd want people to forgive me. You can call me too forgiving, but that's just me.

Also, Anakin is not selfish. Just because he isn't interested in what Padme does in the senate it doesn't mate him selfish. And yes, he whines, but so did Luke. In fact, Luke whined more and for less good reasons than Anakin. Anakin only whined a couple times, and he always gets hated more it. That's unfair. I guess some people are just petulant enough to get annoyed by people whining twice. Christ. My brother whines a lot more than Anakin, and I don't hate him for it. Sometimes I wonder if people are *trying* to find flaws in Anakin, including flaws that aren't even there. For years, they have idealized him to be either the best Jedi ever or the demon from Hell, and since he fits none of those descriptions, they're angry.

Like I said, Anakin is never good enough for people. He's either too innocent, or too evil, which supports my theory that people have been idealizing him. They will never be pleased with him until they fit their ideals, which will never happen. So go on, keep on hating Anakin and Padme all you want, but I'd rather love characters rather than waste time holding grudges against them. Even I though I dislike Palpatine, I don't waste time holding grudges against him. Most of the time, I just avoid him. I wish people would do that with Anakin, rather than waste their time thinking about how much they hate the character. But that's just me. Even if I am blinded by love for Anakin, at least I'm not blinded by hate for him.

And I think I'm not, because I see both his flaws and strengths. It makes me wonder if the people who hate him see his strengths... And keep in mind that I never said you were blinded by your hate for him, you just seem like it because you act as if he has no strengths, when he does. Everyone has strengths, even Palpatine. He is intelligent, perceptive, charming, cunning, and ambitious. If I were unable to say he has strengths, I'd be blinded by my hate for him. Thank God, because being blinded by hate is much worse than being blinded by love. And yes, I will again admit that Anakin has flaws. He is arrogant, impetous, impulsive, and impatient. But he is also loyal, honest, brave, and loving. You can argue that he has no strengths, but that would a flawed argument because everyone, even the Devil, has strengths.

If you are wondering how in the world anyone could forgive you Anakin, the simple answer is love. And love is about caring for people, and accepting the good, bad, and ugly parts of them. Padme cared for Anakin, so instead of just saying "Oh you monster! How could you hurt those innocent people!" she comforted him, and possibly encouraged him to report it to Palpatine.

 

P.S: I forgot two of Anakin's flaws. He is also gulliable and clingy. GL has called Anakin selfish, because Anakin wanted to stop people from dying. However, I view selfish as thinking only about yourself. So, I think the word he was looking for is clingy. To make up for those flaws, he is also intelligent and humorous. And you can't say that his naivity makes you stupid, because Padme is both naive and intelligent as well.

In the ROTS novelization, Padme thought to herself that Anakin didn't leave the Jedi Order because he wanted to save peoples' lives. That makes sense, because Anakin seems to have a Hero Complex, or Savior Syndrome. Another thing about Anakin is that he is similar to Qui Gon, and that is partially why people hate him. I'm not surprised that Qui Gon is often bashed, you know. Even though he was more calm and collected than Anakin, people tend to bash him because he disliked the Jedi Council. Now, back to Anakin. He, like Qui Gon, prefers to follow the Will of the Force rather than the Council. When he believes he is the only one who can save his mother, some may believe it is arrogant, but it is not because the Will of the Force tells him that he really is. When Anakin reaches his mother, he already has saved her by simply loving her, but Anakin doesn't realize that until the end of RotJ. Killing the Tuskens was a heinous act, but I think wanting to save his mother was far from cruel.

Now, I must tell you the very reason why I love Anakin so much: He is human. He is falliable. He makes mistakes. He is easy to relate to. No offense to people who love the Jedi, but I can't say the same for other Prequel Jedi. Maybe Obi Wan or Qui Gon, but that's pretty much it. Another thing I must add is that Anakin did not fail as a Jedi by loving Padme. To be honest, his only mistake as a Jedi was killing those Tusken Raiders. For me, breaking rules doesn't mean someone "failed" especially when those rules are strict. Then again, I don't like following rules myself which is probably why I'm going easy on Anakin here.

If you think about it, Anakin is generally more open minded and flexible than other Jedi. However, Anakin also has a fatal flaw that they lack: Fear of loss. And this fatal flaw is like a parasite. It is something that completely takes over Anakin until all his virtues are destroyed by it. Ironically, it fades when he becomes Vader, and it is completely gone at the end of the story. In the end, Anakin ended Palpatine's tyranny, and *DID* free the slaves, but he had to go down the road of Hell first. Most people may never be able to forgive Anakin for his mistakes, but those who have love him a whole lot.

 

To me, it doesn't make much sense. Anakin has only met Padme for 2-3 days at the most when he was 9. Granted, it would have been good if they were able to keep in touch in some form over those 10 years between TPM & AOTC, but having them not? Anakin comes off as some creepy obsessed guy...

 

*Padme wasn't naive by loving Anakin. She was naive, because Palpatine was able to trick her. Sorry about the extra post, but I ran out of time to edit the other post again. In reply to your post, he wasn't obsessed because he always backed off, and was able to spend time away from for three years. You can believe he was creepy and obsessed, but I won't be convinced until we actually see him stalking her. For some people, that one look he gave at her may be enough, but I need more evidence than that. To those of you who believe that they only lusted after each other, the fact that Padme and Anakin still love each other during most of ROTS proves that they were more than infatuated with each other. If they were simply infatuated with each other, they would have gotten over each other after three years.

 

The reason people find Anakin and Padme's relationship creepy is because we live in a sexist and patriarchal society.

 

Wow, so now Padmé raped Anakin?

Hmm...The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Right, Ben?

Seriously, I buy the Anakin the stalker argument, but PADMÉ IS NOT A PEDO!

DarthBoba: No, she's the stalker. You're a pedo. Different thing.

 

TYPHO: I'd be more concerned about her doing something than him.

 

Still doesn't explain how any sane or rational woman could honestly say they love a man who they've known as an adult for all of three or four days. You see, women who actually go through with this in this fashion either end up yelling from their trailer park in a tube top while the cops haul the husband to the slammer. Or they get the marriage annulled, and later blame it on the booze. Or the woman waits a while, gets a divorce, and nabs half the cash from a husband too stupid to get to know his wife BEFORE tying the knot. Or, in extreme and unfortunate cases, the woman ends up dead in a dumpster. It shows Lucas' poor understanding of human relationships when he honestly cannot differentiate between love and lust within a story. Conflating the two is VERY dangerous in real life.



What on earth makes so many people think that being in love is a rational act? Or that one can mix love with morality? When will people grow up and realize how chaotic love can really be? Like so many other things in life?



Seriously, I buy the Anakin the stalker argument, but PADMÉ IS NOT A PEDO!


I don't recall Anakin showing signs of being a stalker. After Padme had rejected his suggestion that they have a romance, he pretty much gave up the idea and made no further romantic overtures. It was Padme who broke the stalemate and made the overtures, as they were being led into the arena on Geonosis. It was Padme who ran toward an wounded Anakin, in full view of everyone, following the battle. It was Padme who naysayed Anakin's suggestion that they tell the Jedi Council about their marriage, due to her fear of really losing him. I'm not saying that Padme was a stalker. But Anakin certainly was not one.



But it's a rare person who gets married a scant few days afterward.

It may be rare, but it has happened.

 

I've dealt with stalkers, and as far as I'm concerned, the idea that Anakin is a stalker is laughable at best, for the reasons that DRush listed above. Anakin missed the session in Stalker Class in which he was supposed to leave a creepy Holonet message for Padme at least once an hour after the fireplace scene. And telling her that he had to leave her to go rescue his mother? Definitely loses stalker points for that one. She is supposed to refuse to go with him, and he is supposed to grab her and force her into the ship.

As far as their relationship not being "realistic," it's not supposed to be. It's Star Wars. If it were realistic, they wouldn't have flown on a spaceship to another planet to marry with robots witnessing the ceremony. Padme being Queen at age 14 and Senator at age 18 was pretty "unrealistic" too.

And how do we define a "realistic" relationship anyway? There is not a formula: a couple must date for X amount of time in order for the relationship to work. There are people who date for years prior to marriage and have marriages that don't last. There are people who date for a few weeks and have marriages that last a lifetime. I can think of several couples that I know personally.

 

Doesn't that just mean he's "stalking" his mother at that point?

 

Hey, he followed her all day long, all the way to a distant Tusken camp, even questioned a bunch of jawas about where she was. And then went bats and committed mass slaughter when she "left" him. Definitely stalker material there.

 

I certainly don't see the "creepy" factor. As for the start of thier relationship, admittedly how unorthodox its beginnings we should probably take into account as well that by all accounts this is the first relationship for each of them. You've got Anakin who has essentially no interaction experience/skills/whatever with women due to his belonging to the Order. You've got Padme who I am guessing didn't get alot of dating done as a Queen and then a Senator. So, while both in thier 20's, they probably are dating at the middle school level.

As far as the attraction goes, well yes of course. It is a very rare occasion when a guy decides to hit on a woman because he thinks she's a ten on the "personality" scale. Dudes had a crush forever. Do we not usually focus on the superficial looks first, and find the rest later?

While we are all playing Dr. Phil and Dr. Ruth what of the angle about two people from the opposite sex placed into extreme situations and how that may affect feelings for one another?

 

I have to admit, I don't understand the notion that Anakin is just "lusting" after Padme. At all. If the guy wants to get some then all he has to do is go back down to the bar where he and Obi-Wan caught Zam Wessel. There were plenty of good-looking women leering at him and this would even be encouraged by the Jedi, considering their policy of no attachments. Anakin's attraction to Padme has always come across to me as his desperate need for an emotional connection. She's strikingly beautiful, but he's a handsome guy as well and certainly capable of finding a random woman if all he's interested in is a physical relationship.

 

LOL I'm still trying to wrap my brain around Padmé raping Anakin. Which would mean what, exactly?

Padmé and Anakin (the discussion here)
Teneniel Djo and Luke (possibly)
Tahiri and Ben (rendered lovingly in 100% canonical detail, why in Chaos is Troy Denning still under contract with Del Rey instead of writing for NAMBLA where he belongs?)

Makes me wonder if that's why Cade does deathsticks and sleeps around so much.

Now, to be fair, on the "Anakin the stalker" thing, Anakin is a definite yandere, possibly even more yankee than deredere. His turn to the dark side is all about Padmé, after all.

 

Which makes him desperate, that desperation coming from the fact that his mother, who had been brutally tortured for a month, died in his arms. Doesn't make him stalkerish though.