Lit Ancient Races: Celestials, Rakata, and Co

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cronal, May 19, 2011.

  1. Cronal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Ok, managed to see a walkthrough of Terror from Beyond which hopefully I get to play in the future as it looks fun. Anyway, onto some content that I managed to see relevant to this thread:
    • The Dread Masters have transformed the dying Kephess into a vastly more powerful muscular form and sent him into Gree space
    • Once there, he somehow managed to take control of the Gree Hypergate on Asation which connected to some unknown part of space that the Gree Gatemaster does not know
    • It began bringing in creatures of unknown origins and droids as well that began attack the Gree where many died as a result
    • The Gree completely lack a warrior caste and left much of their military to droids that are crafted by them
    • So the Gree ask for aid from either the Sith or the Republic with the latter hearing of one of their squads being torned apart by a 'six armed' thing whereupon they dispatch you to Asation
    • After reaching, you encounter 'Writhing Horrors' that are infesting parts of Asation
    • You later end up in some advanced machinery and seemingly fight a Gree artificial intelligence (I am guessing here) called Operator IX
    • Once you reach the Hypergate some anomalies from it come into your path and you find Kephess who you defeat as well as hear the Dread Masters have allowed him to die this time as they have no further use for him after he opened the gate
    • With the gate open, the Dread Masters state that something's 'banishment' is at an end and call a creature to 'sow fear' which turns out to be this massive tentacled thing called the Terror from Beyond that comes forth from the Hypergate
    • You battle the thing and force it back but only partially into the hyperspace corridor in the Hypergate where you have to dislodge it and presumably send it back to wherever it came from
    • You go back to the Republic station where you are congratulated and the Gree give you the honour of being declared 'Red Rhombus' which is the highest award that they can give
    Thats pretty much it really. The scenary of Asation looks amazing as does the Hypergate which looks nothing like what the old artwork used to show. Here, it has something like four pillars and a tear in space rolling in the middile whereas the old artwork had it being kind of arch like. Kind of wish more was shown on what was on the other side of the Hypergate but the Gree don't know what is there. Whether they did not know or their civilization had 'forgotten' is up in the air. But the Dread Masters did say about the Terror from Beyond that its 'banishment' was at an end which implies the other side was some distant region of space that served as a prison for the creatures. Though the question is... where?

    Another thing present is the use of Gree droids. The Adventure Journal said the Gree hated droids as they were not a part of Gree technology. But the Essential Guide to Droids said that the Gree must have developed automata in the past. And we see from the Old Republic that the Gree use diplomat droids to represent their interests outside the Enclave. And that the Gree lack a warrior caste with the role given to droids who are their only form of 'bisectors' or soldiers. So, there seems to be a potential conflict. But, its possible some experience led to the Gree droids turning against their masters and they decided to bury their old usage.

    Other nice tidbits are mention of Gree castes. To the Republic, the Gree send one of their Gatemasters who states the defence of the Hypergate was his duty but that he was Operator caste and thus ill equiped for the role. And the Empire receives an Administrator General who, after the completion of the quest, asks the Sith to prop him up as a dictator and to take over Asation. So, some Gree ambition and power play right there as this Administrator General believed that with some 'bisectors' he could take over the planet. Also, the Imperial Reclaimation Service said outright that the Gree predate the Rakata by eons. Eons... so they are definately a lot older than the Infinite Empire.

    Anyway, thats my analysis of Terror from Beyond. Hope the upcoming Old Republic Encyclopedia covers some of the new content in this Operation and provides some entries on the Writhing Horrors, Operator IX and the Terror from Beyond.
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  2. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    grrreaaaat was waiting for such spoilers! very interesting. could you link me to the walkthroughs for both factions please?
  3. Cronal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Sure :)

    Republic Walkthrough:


    Imperial Intro:


    Imperial Finale:


    Some very good stuff and hope to play it in the future but I really needed to see the lore first.
    Last edited by Cronal, Oct 3, 2012
    Gorefiend and CeiranHarmony like this.
  4. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
  5. Cronal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Heh indeed :D I quite like the design of the Gree as they really look like walking alien squids and their dialogue is just so alien. BioWare has really done a good work on the Gree even though they changed a few things but ultimately I think they were improvements instead of problems.
    Gamiel likes this.
  6. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    indeed, and the Gree planet and tech looks terrrrrifffffic! A bit Tron-esque and very remniscient of their computer hightech they are known for. also their designs look cool... those brick-y stairs are a beauty!

    as for the Gree.. my first impresson upon seeing them ingame was: Dalek, is that you? Exteeeeerminate! lol... O:)


    also as for the Hypergate look difference... there is none! the big Gate is obviously intended for big beings/stuff whereas the small gates we know from the EU still do exist. Basically, you see them using them too when jumping from tower to tower in the endgame fight! smaller gates that look like an arc.
    Last edited by CeiranHarmony, Oct 3, 2012
  7. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Something I've wondered about is the origin of Korriban and the Sith Species.
  8. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    One thing I wonder about Korriban is how the Sith did grow their foodstuffs before the Rakata came there.
  9. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    I suspect that it wasn't always so utterly desertified. Constant internecine warfare within the Sith species could quite handily account for Korriban's desolate ecology, as well as play into what we know of Sith culture.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    This is making me want to see a very different Korriban in DOTJ like how we saw Tatooine.

    The original Valley of the Sith Kings, still lush and vibrant, basked in gold and bejewelled statuaries and decorations, with a small crystal tributary running through the middle, and out into the leafy plains.

    Then the darkness came... and the second Ziost became a graveyard.
  11. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    These ideas are beyond fascinating. Keep them coming.:) What is "the second Ziost"?
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Oct 12, 2012
  12. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    The TOR datacron for the tuk'ata suggest that they weren't always so vicious.
  13. Cronal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    On Red Sith, some source says they gained some form of nourishment from the Dark Side... though I would imagine that happened more when Korriban became the dead looking world we see in latter years. As for Tuk'ata, yeah, TOR I think says they were twisted from herbivores or something and ended up as aggressive Sithspawn.
  14. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    TOR says that it's said that the Tuk'ata were once nonviolent and grazing.
  15. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
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    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Korriban and Ziost were the original homeworlds of the Sith. The Sith left Korriban for Ziost, at some point.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There's also "long-lost ancestral homeworld" Dromund Kaas...
    darklordoftech likes this.
  17. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Circa 27,000 BBY according to "Jedi vs Sith - the Essential Guide to the Force".
  18. Cronal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    One thing I want to bring to the discussion table is the Kwa - Rakata war and the extent of it.

    This is basically how I see a possible timeline:
    -The Kwa become a servitor race for the Celestials (what role? warriors maybe?)
    -During this time, they manage to uncover Celestial principles (given it? stolen it?) to create the Infinity Gates
    -Potentially, the Kwa decide to go on a rampage and begin attacking the Gree (perhaps inspired by someone? or maybe they were war-like as they might have been warriors? or maybe a corrupt leadership?)
    -The Kwa begin to abuse their power and create unnatural voids with the gate technology
    -This angers the Spirits (or Architects or the Ones) who command the Rakata to attack the Kwa
    -Rakata-Kwa war, possibly a long one since we know there is an Infinity Gate on the Plunder Moon which is located IN the Unknown Regions and quite far from Dathomir space (why there? coincidence? or perhaps a staging ground for Kwa assaults on the Rakata?)
    -Kwa are defeated and the Spirits (Celestials? Architects? Ones) revert them 'back' into animals as punishment for their actions
    -Shortly afterwards Celestials disappear from known space and allow the 'upstart' Rakata to transform themselves from a servitor into the Infinite Empire
    -Conquered Kwa are now Kwi and the victorious Rakata take Rancors as one of the trophies of their conquest

    That make sense?
  19. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    I Can understand Bioware not Using the Kwa, their home planet is Dathomir which a Planet in SWG, and is in the animated show, Aaaaaand its home to a Group of forceusers that technically should not even exists in the period the games take place in, but likely people would want to see anyway. Its a continuity mine feild right now.
  20. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    "The true origins of the Sith remain a mystery." - SWTOR.com
  21. TheWiseJedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2012
    I want to bring up abeloth again, because I believe this is what happened

    Abeloth is dubbed the "Bringer of chaos" Because when the galaxy got out of hand, thousands of years of war, they unleash her to reek havoc and restore order to the Galaxy. Often then not She destroys what the brother and sister helps create.
    I believe that Abeloth bathed in both the pool of Knowledge and the font of power ( the former is good, the latter is evil). these two separate powers combined into one being created the " chaos". Thus this is why she is called " bringer of chaos"

    Abeloth, knowing that the Ones were dead, decided that it was time she created the ones again, only at its center there was chaos instead of balance. Vestara became the brother and Ben became the Sister ( the former bad, the latter good) but at the center of this new family would have been chaos. Originally she thought Luke would be added as well, as balance, and she would once again be a servant. But Luke rejected and try to kill her, so she had to take the place of the head of the family.

    These two quotes help us understand the method of abeloth and the creation of the new ones.

    "I am wondering if it is Ben's destiny to take the daughter's place and become the embodiment of the light side" Luke to Jania [Fate of the jedi: apocalypse page 378]
    "And Vestara's to become the embodiment of the dark side? "Jania to Luke [ Fate of the Jedi Apocalypse page 378]

    There is one interesting Fact though with the way Abeloth does this. Jania has a dream about "Ben and Vestara fighting for the Balance in the courtyard of the font of power"Jania to Luke [Fate of the Jedi Apocalypse page 378]

    Correct me if I am wrong but The original Ones, the father mostly always had to separate the brother and sister from fighting... so Why would abeloth want these 2 to fight for the balance? What does Abeloth gain from that?

    according to the TCW cartoon During the Mortis trilogy the father states that "It is only here [mortis] that I can control them [ Brother and sister], a family in balance. light and dark, day with night, destruction replaced with creations" father to anakin skywalker [mortis trilogy episode 1]

    So my best guess would be that Abeloth is trying trying to create chaos by having the 2 of them fight it out.

    That leads to the point of this whole post: Could there be another set of ones? that will repeat this thing all over again? Abeloth it seems will always be around.. so maybe this will be a continuous cycle
  22. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I believe it's Valley of the Sleeping Kings.
  23. Cronal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    The question is whether the Ones are a cyclic thing or whether Abeloth is just trying to recreate the family that she once knew but with different people. The fact though that Father tried to turn Anakin and Abeloth tried the same with Luke/Ben/Vestara implies that a One or a person with their power seeks the propagation of their line by choosing successors. But must there be Ones for balance? Or is the purpose of the Ones now to simply end Abeloth who seems to be the only thing remaining from their reign?
  24. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Well, if there are no Ones, they don't need to balance each other out, one would guess.

    In Jaina's dream it was symbolising how the Jedi and Sith are replacing the Daughter and Son, and now must self-regulate the counterbalance against Abeloth.
  25. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Here's a hypothetical question to muse over:

    In the Celestials day, the Ones may have embodied the light and dark of the Force, something which has now become embodied in the Jedi and Sith Orders... but who has come closest to embodying Chaos? If Abeloth was an aberration, something that was never meant to be in the natural order, a force that needed to be undone... then was she in effect the Palpatine of the Celestials day? The imbalance in the Force that needed correction?

    Bringing me to wonder whether we'll see another such character bend the rules of the Force further than even the Sith do, to create another imbalance...

    Or will Palpatine forever mark the low-point of the age of humanity, like Abeloth did the Celestials' age?