Lit Ancient Races: Celestials, Rakata, and Co

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cronal, May 19, 2011.

  1. CeiranHarmony Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    Mothermachine that?
  2. Zorrixor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Mother Machine seems like it'd have been made too late.

    Nothing says that, but... given it was made after the Rakata lost their Force connection and was an attempt to learn how the Force worked and restore it, it seems like something that wasn't as superuber as the three Star Forges, which sounded more like the crowning achievements of the Infinite Empire, and so something they'd have built when the Rakata were at the highpoint of their game?

    (And writing the word "Infinite Empire" reminds me of how I liked it when Revan described his droids as his "infinite army", I thought that was a nice little touch. :))
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Mar 10, 2013
  3. Cronal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    I would have loved to had seen an rpg campaign guide called Galaxy of Mystery or something where you read things about the Rakatan's "infinite army" fighting the countless threats of their era... there are just loads of potential out there on seeing the elder races of the GFFA.
  4. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I have a theory that the Yuuzhan Vong are descended from a group of Rakata. They are both kill-happy species and according to Essential Reader's Companion, the Yuuzhan Vong were at one point supposed to be the ones who corrupted the Sith.
  5. Archive_Historian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2013
    I think what the readers companion was saying is that they were originally intended to be the ones who corrupted the Sith, but from what we've seen so far, there really doesn't seem to be any connection between the YV and the Rakata. I think at the time of the companions writing, it might have been what they wanted, but the Rakata seemed like a much more likely and reasonable cause.
  6. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I was saying that according to my theory, the Vong went from being the ones who corrupted the Sith to being descended from the ones who corrupted the Sith.
  7. Cronal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    It might be a bit of a stretch to link the two since we already know the origins of both races. The Vong are placed as being extragalactic and sprung up on sentient Force-sensitive Yuuzhan'tar whilst the Rakata have so far been shown to be native to the GFFA and originated on Lehon in the Unknown Regions. Plus, one has to remember that the Rakata and Vong are completely different species. Vong seem quite close to human whilst the Rakata are not. Not only that but the technology aspect is also an issue since the books show that the Vong never developed traditional technology but instead just jumped onto the biotech ladder. So, it would be difficult to find any means of linking the Vong as descended from the Rakata. Sure, they both can be kill-happy species but the Yevetha and others were equably kill-happy even.

    I do remember a long time ago though before the end of the NJO that some people speculated that the Vong were native to the GFFA and left only to return by the book period but I think its shown that this is just not the case.
  8. Gorefiend Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Stuff is a little vague on it but they seemed to have use more conventional technology back in the day until the war against “thinking machines“ ( likely the Abominors) radicalized their civilization.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  9. Cronal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    I thought the implication was that the Yuuzhan Vong had no technology and just lived as humanoid symbionts on Yuuzhan'tar? Don't know why but I always thought of that being the case where they lived a primitive existence until the thinking machines arrived where Yuuzhan'tar 'conscripted' other animals to serve as living weapons for them. Mind you, thats what I thought was the case. Its not outright said that was the case. Still, a lot seems unknown about them in that time.
  10. Corax78 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2008
    star 2
    I won't go into specifics because of spoilers and what not but we find out more about the Rakata in the 4th issue of Dawn of the Jedi.
  11. Cronal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Indeed, spoiler time!
    Show Spoiler
    We find out that the Kwa came to Tython through the Infinity Gate and found the primitive Force sensitive Rakata who they 'uplifted' by teaching them the 'Power of the Cosmos' and technology. However, they did not know the true nature of the Rakata who were inclined to darker acts such as cannibalism and instead ignored Kwa teachings on balance to instead embrace the Dark Side of the Force. They later paired their new found Force knowledge with technology and formed the Infinite Empire where they attacked Force rich worlds. Now, the issue gives an added reason for these attacks by the Rakata... namely that they induced dark emotions such as hate and fear in conquered Force sensitives with these feelings being used to power their technology! So, it wasn't simply raiding for raiding sake... they actually invaded worlds to power their technology.

    Now, in time, the Rakata wanted the Infinity Gate technology which the Kwa naturally refused to give leading to a war between the two. This led to a battle with the Rakata on Lehon where they destroyed the gate on that planet. After the battle, the Kwa proceeded to either destroy or disable all the Infinity Gates around the galaxy as they retreated to Dathomir in the face of Rakatan aggression as well as due to the shame of unleashing them on the galaxy. Some Kwa, however, remained behind on their other colonies such as the Tythonian Kwa.


    So, some new developments on the Kwa in this issue and things that perhaps changes some of the speculations we had in this thread. Using spoiler tags here for now:
    Show Spoiler
    So, we find that its not the Celestials that uplifted the Rakata but the Kwa which changes perception seen in other EU sources. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Celestials were not involved. I personally think the Celestials do not influence corporeal events and are instead reliant on agents to do their will such as the Kwa. But, we have another conflict with the Book of Sith where the Nightsisters legends say that the Dathomirian Spirits called the Rakata to Dathomir to punish them for bringing imbalance to the cosmos. Are they simply the one sided view of the Nightsisters or is there any truth to their tales? There have been implications that the Morits Family are the Spirits and FotJ says the Ones are linked to the Celestials. So, if the Kwa were so peaceful and doing their will, why did they destroy them? Not suggesting that the Celestials are nice people but if the Nightsisters tales are true then I still kind of wonder what was the reasoning behind the Kwa being punished.

    Another issue... DotJ makes it seem that the Kwa are very peaceful and innocent beyond being naive in their uplifting projects. Yet, after what they did to the Rakata, its never said that the Kwa battled their former servants. Yet, we have mentions of Kwa supersoldiers trapped in mind prisons in sources such as TUR. So, did the Kwa simply retreat or did they actually gear to war by the end but it was too late? What I mean when I say that is did the Kwa develop their supersoldiers but only at the end when they already lost? Might be an interesting tale of the Kwa who were initially all about balance but the aggression of the Rakata saw them adopting equably aggressive actions such as using the Gates as weapons and creating new supersoldiers from their ranks which angered the Spirits who finally turned against them.
  12. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Show Spoiler
    Or maybe A'nang is an unreliable narrator.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 30, 2013
  13. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Were the Red Sith always darksiders, or were they somehow corrupted?
  14. CeiranHarmony Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    as I posted in the DOTJ issue's topic already... the Kwa's fall from grace is like that of the Yuuzhan Vong.. a harmonic species in balance with their environment turns from defense to offense (Vong vs. Abominor), through war they gear up and become worse than their agressors which lead to them being put down, instead of their agressors being punished!

    shall I copy my posts over here? ok:

    Show Spoiler


    Cronal and darklordoftech like this.
  15. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    You are a genius! To add to what you are saying, I have a "Palpatine is a Rakata" theory and the Abominor work with the Empire in the Droids cartoon. If my theory is correct, in both cases the initial aggressors ultimately joined the Empire.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 30, 2013
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  16. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    It seems clear to me that the Rakata became evil on their own.
  17. Cronal Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Possible. Or he might not have represented the rest of his people.

    And good post there Ceiran :)I do like the idea of the Gree being selected as replacements perhaps after their former ones fell from grace. Might explain why it became so messed up by the end.
  18. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    A'nang's Rakata history lesson is my favorite thing in DOTJ so far.
  19. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    The Kwa trained the Rakata just like the Jedi trained most Sith! Will the GFFA ever learn to stop training people with these superpowers?
  20. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Is it possible that the Rakata cursed the Je'daii, forever splitting them into Jedi and Sith?
  21. Ghost Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
  22. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Then what happened, I wonder?
  23. CeiranHarmony Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    circle of life ;) or should i say Mortis :)
    Cronal and darklordoftech like this.
  24. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    (music note) The Cirrrrcle of Mortiiis (music note)
    darth fluffy and Zorrixor like this.
  25. CeiranHarmony Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    [IMG]
    Last edited by CeiranHarmony, Apr 2, 2013
    Cronal and darklordoftech like this.