Lit Ancient Races: Celestials, Rakata, and Co

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cronal, May 19, 2011.

  1. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    How do we know that Abeloth originally was human?

    Or she could just be totally locos and has no real idea about what she is talking about8-}

    But do we know that Mother Talzin actually know what she is talking about? After all it is fully possible that most of what she says is things she was told by her elder who only know of the kwa thanks to hieroglyphs and/or other remains that the kwa left on Dathomir before turning into the kwi and they, the elder, could just have interpreted it fully wrong or just some dusts of truth that they combine with their own mythology
  2. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    You're right.
    1. no
    2. How can there be "too much life"?
  3. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Do you know the Warhammer universe? In there one of the bad gods are Nurgel, he can be used as an example of to much life: his servants are "breeding grounds" for cancer and different kinds of sickness by all account they should be dead but they are infused with life by papa Nurgel and continue living

    An other example are the aristosofi groups from the Swedish RPG Gondica: the aristosofi's magic is based around manipulating life and life energy. To work most of their magic they need to create a ultravital nexus, a place with a unnatural high level of life energy, in this nexus they can change, mutate, distort life-forms, not unlike the Sith's bio-alchemy, and create wonder drugs. The big problem with ultravital nexus, outside of all the evil the aristosofis create in them, is that they are danger for the nature under them since they are boiling with uncontrolled lifeforce. Plants and animals near them can be affected and change in size, appearance, organ function and temperament, etc. - those changes, called distortions, are random and uncontrolled. Thankfully ultravital nexus are unstable and disappear after a time and most of the plants and animals that has been distorted die, since they have become dependent on the high level of life force. The real problem are when a ultravital nexus stay put for some time and a green zone is created: in there flora and fauna has undergone many unpredictable changes; in there the normal rules for nation no longer apply.
    Last edited by Gamiel, Aug 26, 2013
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  4. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    me too, me too... essentially, going by the Mortis model, whenever a Jedi kills in selfdefense or defense of others he uses a tiny bit of the dark side = destruction = Killing. but is not immedeately turned dark by the act itself of course. whenever something is created though, the light side is used. so basically a Sith creating a monster with the Force... or sithspawn.. is using an evil kind of Lightside creation.
  5. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    No no I did not mix Chaos&Order with Creation&Destruction. I am aware of the difference and pointing it out to others quite often. As I said in my post, Denning's adding Mother's role to the Mortis Three who were taoistic creation, destruction and the balance principle in Father, was based on the idea that balance is opposed by imbalance... he equaled order with balance and chaos with imbalance seeing a natural cycle between those like there exists another one between creation and destruction. That though is not the case in the original Mortis analogy where the Father is both, balance and imbalance in that taoism is not static order that needs to be replaced by chaos (abeloth) from time to time, but rather a dynamic cycle of Father letting son and daughter do their thing but in equal amounts. he allows for imbalance so long it is balanced out right after again.


    as for the Sharu: all based on a rumor of the pyramids of Aargau resembling Sharu pyramids and being mysterious. The Essential Atlas linked them vague to the Sharu but that's it so far. How farspread they were in between their space and Aargau etc. is all unknown sadly aside them having been celestial servants possibly once too, in contact with Rakata etc. but where that contact happened also is unknown.


    Friends of me wanted to do a full Xendor and Kashi Mer story based on facts known back in the day but the project was stopped when the New Essential Chronology was released and retconned Xendor stuff a bit with timeline dating etc. the trailer is no longer online and I do not have a copy anymore sadly. Mostly it featured animatics from ships and fleets with awesome dark voiceover and epic selfcomposed music for the fanfilm.
    Cronal likes this.
  6. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    What are you referring to?
  7. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    It does seem that Xendor lost all his importance as a result of the New Essential Chronology retcon.
  8. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
  9. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    How?
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Aug 26, 2013
  10. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I always found Xendor, Arden Lyn, the Kashi Mer, and all that history to be interesting.
  11. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I did find it interesting before the NEC retcon. That retcon made them just one of many proto-Sith groups.
  12. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Some questions about the sharu:
    Have we any knowledge about sharu or near-sharu living outside of Rafa V?

    Also do we know if Rafa V is their original homeworld or "just" a colony world?

    In the article about Rafa V Wookipedia says that "Circa 1,000,000 BBY, the Sharu had felt threatened by the Celestials." but don't give source, have this been confirmed and if so were? If not can somebody go in and correct the article, bitte.

    All articles and books I have describe the pyramides on Rafa V and that they crumbled after the mindharp was activated to reveal the hidden cities of the ancient sharu but have the architecture and/or looks of those ancient cities been described anywhere?

    On the same line all, descriptions and pictures of the sharu that I have seen are of them as the toka. Did the toka physical change in any way when they once again became the sharu? And is there any description of their clothes?

    It is very likely that the Dawn Pyramid of Aargau are of sharu origin but do we know of any other possible remains of the sharu in the galaxy? Also, was the Dawn Pyramid effected by the mindharp?
  13. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Ah, I see [face_blush] my fault

    I need to see the Mortis episodes
    Last edited by Gamiel, Aug 27, 2013
  14. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    The Atlas points out that their Empire at least stretched as far as the Core and they left writing and artifacts in several places, but as a race apparently withdrew back to Rafa.

    Their Homeworld actually seems to have been Rafa IV as it still has a lot of their ancient space faring attempts in orbit and actually housed the Mind Harp and the giant museum in which it is kept.



    No clue as on the year, though might be from Mindharp itself, will get back on it after I flip through it. The Atlas though still has them control of the Centrality region in 100000 BBY.



    Not that I know.



    The Toka and the Sharu are the same race, just got their knowledge back once the Mind Harp was activated and no mention is made of their new clothing, as they still wear the rags and tatters they did as Toka when Lando leaves the system.



    Mindharp itself hints at that there are a few in the Centrality at large


    Doubtful as I find it unlikely that the Sharu would actually leave anything behind that is of real use.
    Cronal likes this.
  15. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Sorry I was not clear, I meant the "[...]threatened by the Celestials" part

    Do the Atlas use the term empire?
    Last edited by Gamiel, Aug 27, 2013
  16. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5


    Oh that... the Atlas is rather vague on it, as people are not sure what actually caused them to withdraw, but mentions the Celestials as the possible cause.


    Nep they go with Sharu Civilization.
  17. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5

    Thanks
    So we don't know if the sharu were a politically/socially united people or, like f.ex. humans, only united by their language and looks?
  18. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    The Toka at least seem to be something like a Theocracy, but nep we have no clue as on how the Sharu organized things and as the Chronology mentions, they don't like to share information.
  19. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Than it can not have been so many of them if Rafa V is the only known place in the galaxy with sharu or maybe whatever they were afraid of had already destroyed most of their species when they made themselves into the toka?
    Do those "ancient space faring attempts" get any description?
  20. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    All 11 planets of the Rafa system are settled and have those ruins, also by the time "we" get to see them the Sharu have been gone for ten thousands of years after they seemed to have agreed upon having their brains drained, population would regulate itself once they went barbaric.


    PS: That should really be Rafa V as homeworld, for some reason I got it mixed up, the Centrality Governor is on Rafa IV and Lando then goes to Rafa V to get the Mindharp.

    PSS: Got to love the curse words in these novels. :D
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Aug 27, 2013
    Cronal and Gamiel like this.
  21. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    But even if the sharu "just" had colonies from the Centrality sector to Aargau and were not spreading in a circle, they had to have been a large amount of them and just 11 planets are small amount of land in that case.

    Also do the toka/sharu exist on all 11 planets? Because they are only mentioned on Rafa V & VI. And had all planets in the Rafa system sharu "ruines" and were they all activated by the mindharp?
    thanks:D to bad there was no pre-toka-era ships in orbit. I would have loved to find out how they looked

    It seams that I need to get my hands on them
    Last edited by Gamiel, Aug 27, 2013
  22. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Since we don't even know what kind of Hyperdrives they had, we can really only speculate on that, like the Rakata they might only have been able to get to certain worlds, also their expansion period is described as rather brief, so properly not that much time to set up giant colonies.

    Yep


    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-...d=1377603463&sr=8-1&keywords=lando calrissian
    Gamiel likes this.
  23. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Has finally found time to watch through all the videos and I have to say that I love the way the gree speaks, it is so alien and it rather funny that the Sith have better translators then the republic. They also made a good job with the gree's design and animation and their technology fells unique, for the SW galaxy. When it comes to the "gate-monster" it looks good but I think I would have preferred something more asymmetric to emphasis the otherness of it but that's just my personal opinion.

    Also is their a tread were you can complain/read complains about TOR:s Imperials rather fantasy-poor design?
  24. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    Just about each TOR thread there is, though irony is the Republic have the better designs but generally much less interesting stories, whilst the Imperial stuff is often way better written but just dragged down by the uninspired Designs.
  25. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4

    I would recommend checking the Celestial article which is heavily referenced. Sources indicate that the Essential Chronology, New Essential Chronology, the Essential Atlas and the Essential Guide to Warfare all make mention of the Sharu fleeing from the Celestials attentions.

    The Essential Chronology doesn't talk about Celestials but has this to say:
    The New Essential Chronology (pg 2) says in circa 100,000-25,000 BBY in the Pre-Republic era:
    The Essential Atlas (pg 115) doesn't give an exact date but says that the Sharu shared the galaxy with the other ancient races in 100,000 BBY and also says the Celestials:
    The Essential Guide to Warfare (pg 3) has Pre-Republic specialists believing the Sharu had contact with the Celestials or Architects and that the:
    Indeed, I actually quite like them myself :D Sure they could be a bit more alien and I like how they use droids. Sure, it conflicts with older canon of them not using droids but it adds a level of... distance to how they approach everyday life. Certainly would like to see more of their society and how they operate.

    The so called Terror from Beyond (the big beastie from the Hypergate) is not named in the game but interestingly on the TOR website its called Lotek'k... which is normally how the Gree spell their own names. So, its possible the Gree named it or it might even be a mutated Gree... personally, I lean for the Gree named it. Because a number of Gree test animals on the Gray Secant also have Gree style names which to me means the Gree scientists or at least their droids named it in Gree style.