Lit Ancient Races: Celestials, Rakata, and Co

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cronal, May 19, 2011.

  1. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Might the Bivall be related to the Rakata? They look awfully similar.
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    There's another species with tall head and eyestalks: the Ongree:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ongree

    but they're a bit more different from the Rakata than the Bivall are.
  3. Pelranius Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2003
    star 5
    Perhaps the GFFA is set in a post- post Singularity environment, where most of the post Singularity beings (like the Celestials and Ones) died out (possibly by wiping themselves out), so some post Singularity technology remains for people to pick it up and tinker with it?
  4. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    For interest, there is an old thread about this.
    Short answer = unlikely
    Last edited by gizkaspice, Dec 29, 2013
  5. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Have any new information to why the Kwa mutated been revealed in Dawn of the Jedi?

    Also there need to be more species that are descendants to the Kwa
    Last edited by Gamiel, Jan 11, 2014
  6. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    No.

    and Kwi are already the descendents of the Kwa

    [IMG]

    A variant, the Rhoa Kwi

    [IMG]

    and the Blue Desert people tribe, another Kwi type apparently

    [IMG]
    Last edited by gizkaspice, Jan 11, 2014
  7. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I think the Blue Desert people and the Kwi we see in Voss adventure is the same people just different artists interpretation of them. And we do need more descendants on other planets, if humanity can have countless sub-races why can not the Kwa
  8. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    Well, the problem is the Rakata killed off most of the Kwa and the survivors stayed on Dathomir. Of course, the galaxy is huge and there is always the possibility that a small population of Kwa survived on some random planet to leave descendents.

    And humans have countless sub-races because...they're humans :p

    Maybe Kwa have long life spans and produce offspring seldom?
  9. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Maybe the radiation from their hypergates damaged their reproduction system? It could also be the same thing that med them mutate?

    EDIT
    I so need to read the DotJ comic, hurry up and register them Medborgarplatsen’s library!
    Last edited by Gamiel, Jan 11, 2014
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  10. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    Those Infinity Gates are suspicious....why are they so shiny?

    But I would like to know what factors caused them to devolve into Kwi.

    ........unless one day they just went, "Hey guys, we really screwed up by helping those Rakata and now they're killing us, so let's all head back to Dathomir, become naked blue-dinosaur things and run around the desert" ?

    [face_laugh]
    Last edited by gizkaspice, Jan 11, 2014
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  11. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Makes sense.

    The Kwa were so far advanced that they had realised that naked blue things were the peak of all evolution.

    [IMG]
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  12. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Was it the Atlas or Warfare guide that said that the Kwa were punished effectively for abusing their technology? The Nightsisters beliefs seem to indicate that the Rakata came to punish the Kwa... so, either it was deliberate or punishment the whole 'devolved' thing.
    gizkaspice likes this.
  13. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    Kwa abusing their technology? That is a good contrast to how they are shown in DOTJ...being all "good" and uplifting species.
    Maybe they only pretend they are peaceful...
    Maybe the Rakata-Kwa war was due to Kwa being greedy who didn't like to share....

    and so they devolved into naked blue dinosaurs

    Another mystery solved.
    :D
    Last edited by gizkaspice, Jan 12, 2014
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  14. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    It is a bit of a contrast, isn't it? One thing to consider though is perhaps the Kwa were peaceful but became more corrupted and aggressive in their conflict with the Rakata. So, maybe they were all peaceful and lightsided but the Rakata's more dark sided nature led to the Kwa becoming like them? Only other thing I could think about. Its a way to link the fact there were accounts that the Kwa abused their technology and are even said to had crated supersoldiers. That seems like a big contrast to the peaceful teachers that we see in Dawn of the Jedi.
  15. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    It's an excellent new perspective.
    The Rakata-Kwa backstory in DOTJ seems from a biased Kwa perspective--Kwa arrived, expected Rakata to be like them, and then considered them "evil" because they weren't like Kwa. Yes, Rakata are an aggressive species, but Kwa say all they do is eat each other and destroy everything----they do other things like establish an Empire that lasted almost 5,000 years, build Force-based inventions, architect impressive temples, etc.

    And which Rakata did they help? Because the warrior caste is different from the priest caste. Maybe they stumbled on some warrior tribe? If so, maybe this led to corrupted Kwa? Did Kwa visit other islands on Lehon?

    Kwa-supersoldiers? Weren't those locked up in Rakatan mindtraps?
    They are getting suspicious... [face_thinking]
    Last edited by gizkaspice, Jan 13, 2014
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  16. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    It was in the Book of Sith @Zorrixor posted part of it earlier in this thread actually:
    The problem is that do we know that Mother Talzin actually know what she is talking about? After all it is fully possible that most of what she says is things she was told by her elder who only know of the kwa thanks to hieroglyphs and/or other remains that the kwa left on Dathomir before turning into the kwi and they, the elder, could just have interpreted it fully wrong or just some dusts of truth that they combine with their own mythology
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  17. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    That's the one, apologies, I was being a bit lazy otherwise I would have referred to it :( But yeah, its entirely possible that what the Nightsisters believe isn't the truth.

    My own piece of speculation is that the Kwa were once peaceful beings who followed the Balance as shown in DotJ. They encountered the Rakata and 'uplifted' them but did not realise how dark the people of Lehon were as when they learnt of the Force they began using the darkside instead of the Balance. So, the Kwa retreated after destroying their Infinity Gate but the Rakata gained enough knowledge to forge an empire and pushed outward to conquer space as well as destroy their former benefactors. Eventually, a war starts out between the aggressive Rakata and the peaceful Kwa. This conflict shatters the Balance the Kwa had believed as members of their kind decided to use a fire vs fire strategy by using the darkside also to fight the Rakata. So, it was these Kwa falling into darker impulses that used the Infinity Gates as weapons tearing holes in reality that angered the Celestials and resorted to making supersoldiers to fight their wars. The end saw the Rakata conquer Dathomir with the Kwa becoming the Kwi. But not before the Kwa decide to continue their peaceful teachings of the Balance and ensure a legacy by sending the Tho Yor to move Force-sensitives to Tython to make the Je'daii.

    That's all speculation on my part but its what I think might have happened. Its a way to get the two interpretations to fit together and makes the Kwa's fall a bit more tragic. That they ended up resorting to the tactics of their enemies and got destroyed in the process. But, that's just my view on it. Not everyone might like it and it might not turn out like that in the comic and greater EU.
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  18. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    That would explain the kwa-supersoldiers being locked in mindtraps and usage of infinity gates as superweapons.
    Tho Yor..seems like a Celestial-thing to me...
    and Kwa were once peaceful, but they are still biased
    they try to impose their teachings on everyone and expect everyone to be like them...maybe Rakata have their own teachings and just really don't care about Kwa teachings? :p

    does anyone not like the idea of Kwa uplifting species? "we taught them some stuff" is fine, but a species is intelligent enough to come up with their own technology.
    Last edited by gizkaspice, Jan 14, 2014
  19. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Well, the Tho Yor could have been made by the Celestials and used by the Kwa. My belief is that as the Celestials are not corporeal, they can't directly intervene in material affairs which is why they needed servitor races like the Kwa and Gree. These servants would do things that the Celestials could not do directly. So, they make things like the Tho Yor with the Kwa operating them in order to complete their 'masters' grand design. At least, that's how I envisioned it... that the Celestials manipulated events from beyond with only the Ones of Mortis being capable of interacting with the physical world.

    As for the Kwa, nothing suggests they imposed their views on the Rakata. It seems that all they did was teach them of the Force and the Balance that needed to be maintained. The Rakata's darker nature though seems to had turned them straight to the dark side. At least, that's what it appears in DotJ.
  20. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    Could Gree have been involved with the Tho Yor along with Kwa?

    Maybe not imposed, but Kwa expected Rakata to share their beliefs since everyone else they came across did.
    "Darker nature" in what sense? compared to Kwa?
    From other sources it seems they became corrupted because of usage of the darkside and the Star Forge's corrupting nature. Kwa in DOTJ just say they are a species that does nothing else but destroy things--so they don't have education, culture?

    Because humanity isn't exactly a peaceful species either, yet we have different beliefs and cultures---which makes me wonder if the Kwa just helped one tribe of Rakata.

    So "they were taught about the Force, some of them used Balance, some did not, most turned to the darkside" seems less biased than what we get from the Kwa.
    Last edited by gizkaspice, Jan 14, 2014
  21. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    This is posted in the Official Blog thread as well but posting it here since it concerns this topic. So, Galactic Architecture 101: http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/20...ry-of-centerpoint-station-needs-author-entry/

    As it says in the title, it involves the creation of Centerpoint. Stuff we already know but still a nice touch. We get that it was considered a religious duty to the Killiks when they were commanded to make it. It was made when the Corell system only had two outlier planets. A new thing I think is that the planetary repulsors were also created by the Killiks on select planets that were then dragged into the Corellian system. Not surprising but at least something officially says that. And that the repulsors work to amplify Centerpoint's power as a hyperspace tractor beam that shifted black holes and planets around. And of course the Ones contracted the work in building the Maw to the Killiks of Alderaan.

    And further emphasis that the Ones are Celestials. It references the Son and Daughter as being two Celestial architects. Doesn't mention Father in this but that the Architects faded from power sometime after Centerpoint's use in imprisoning Abeloth. All in all, a nice article and hope to see more from the blog.
  22. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    How long do people think it will take until it is retconed?
  23. DEATHCONQUEROR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2011
    star 1
    I may not know as much but.....who were the ancient beings responsible for creating the Tho Yor pyramid ships that transported the Je'daii and established them on Tython?
  24. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2010
    star 4
    I thought it lasted more like 20-30'000 years?

    I think we need to do more with the Rakata since they are the most successful darksiders in known galactic history.
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  25. gizkaspice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 2
    According to the essential atlas, it got established in around 30,000 BBY and collapsed around 25,000 BBY.. so about 5,000 years if I am correct? Sorry! these date things are confusing.
    And I agree--it's not like their empire lasted a few hundred years, but thousands. they had to be doing something right in terms of government that the other darksiders we know do not.
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