Lit Ancient Races: Celestials, Rakata, and Co

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cronal, May 19, 2011.

  1. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    that is from a great WEG Adventure I once played, loved and still enjoy!

    but I forgot about the gate untilyou mentioned it! sweet indeed the connection there


    edit: wookiee also notes humans came to Alderaan 27500BBY via the Herglic Trade Empire... so how do the Herglic tie into all this and how far did their trade network spread?

    also the hypergate on Alderaan.. did Killiks use it to reach Alsakan or had they already ships to travel?
  2. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    not necessarily but maybe. Launchgates are like, I suppose the spacebased giant gate that propells a ship far away without an exit gate needed. Hyperspace cannons on the other hand seem to be less gate and more cannon in look, akin to the Hyperspace cannon Palpatine used for his galaxy torpedos in Dark Empire's galaxy gun! Similiar to that, a hyerspace cannon might effectively do the same, but be larger and bulkier in design than an elegant and slim hyperspace gate circle.
  3. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Thinking of hyperspace cannons in relation to the Galaxy Gun, I suddenly find myself reminded of the mass relays in Mass Effect.
  4. RS_Randy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    So I was reading through my copy of Graveyard of Alderaan, and in it the hypergate is described as an "experimental hypergate".


    Emphasis mine.

    So Alderaan somehow engineered or reverse-engineered a hypergate before they were destroyed! It wasn't a Gree hypergate in the Royal Palace, it was an Alderaanian hypergate!
  5. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5





    reverse engineered sounds more plausible though, but it is open where they obtained them from, or does it make sense for Alderaan to have two gates, so they could place one on the Another Chance? Guess a gate was still on alderaan originally and they procured another one from someone in the Gree Enclave or reverse engineered only the second gate end.

    Edit: or did the Killiks use Hypergates too and Alderaanians used Killik gates?
  6. RS_Randy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Continued reading:


  7. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Hmmm interesting, but wouldnt they have to have an example of a hypergate of some kind in order to reverse engineer it? I personally doubt that they would have developed the technology entirely on their own. Would have been interesting though if the Gree had an outpost on the planet in the past as it develops interesting concepts since it was a Killik world and the Killiks themselves had ties to the Celestials.

    On the Killik hypergate front, well it would depend if they had any Gree Joiners. Remember in Dark Nest, they managed to build massive nest ships in quite a short amount of time so they are quite industrious and seem to have a grasp of technology. Mind you, how much of that was the Colony mind and how much was trade is unknown.
  8. RS_Randy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    They could have had a Gree outpost on Alderaan, they could have based it off of earlier Celestial/Killik technology left behind on Alderaan, or they could have traveled to the Gree Enclave or some other ancient Celestial/Gree/??? site to study the technology in the field. And all this was done during the final days of the Old Republic, prior to the disarming of Alderaan after the Clone Wars. Very interesting... maybe they had Corellia Antilles's father/mother on retainer? :p

    Edit: Now Showing: Corellia Antilles and the Hypergates of the Gree.
  9. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Hmmm, interesting thoughts. The Gree Enclave is quite far but its possible they might have gone there for stuyding the hypergates though personally I prefer if there was a hypergate on Alderaan. And again as you said, its interesting that they had done this study prior to their disarmament... I mean its quite an accomplishment to make even an experimental hypergate.

    Thanks for the information by the way, its most illuminating :)

    I came up with Corellia Antilles and Raiders of the Gree Enclave :p
  10. DarthSienna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2011
    You're welcome, Cronal. Oh, and I'm the same person as RS_Randy. Created a new profile because, well, I hated the name of the one I created waaaay back in 2003, when I was 17. Long story.

    I like Corellia Antilles and the Raiders of the Gree Enclave.

    So, brushing up on my Kwa Infinity Gates, these things seem rather large, and lead not to Hyperspace it seems, but a dimension called Infinity? Perhaps another name for Hyperspace?

    Infinity Waves are also capable of messing up Hyperspace travel in the area of space where they hit. Sounds similar to the Kathol launch gate disaster.

    Also, amazing how many ancient species are so Lovecraftian. Gree are literally sentient squids, the Kathol (Cthol) are Cthulhu ripoffs, Abeloth is Lovecraftian in nature.
  11. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    And all this time I assumed Randy was a name...

    The alternative indeed sounds like a long story. :p

    As for infinity/hyperspace? I'm inclined to assume they're probably the same thing. I like the idea of different cultures giving more than one name to these things anyhow, as it gets dull when the same terms have been used throughout history. Infinity has a nice ring too it. :)

    TO INFINITY AND BEYOND! :p
  12. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    more tech research done for us all:


    The Sharu can create an interdictionfield that spans their entire domain (post-Lando adventures) which reminds me of the Centerpoint ability to inderdict the whole Corellian system and even far beyond it! Sharu can do this for a whole sector! another celestial tech relation there?

    also I wonder, with the Sharu reclaiming their cities and pyramids crumbling in the event, why only in the remote space around Rafa? Why was the dawn pyramid of Aargau not affected or other former holdings of them? or even if not as heavily affected, were there minor wonders happening there too related to the Sharu return event?


    ps: the finale of the series THE EVENT reminded me a lot about Centerpoint moving planets through hyperspace ;)

    edit:
    Kathol: The Kathol or Precursers as they were called too are supposed to be the descendancts of the OLD ONES... so if the Old Ones are Celestials, were the Kathol/Cthol an offshoot or descendant race that did not ascend or whatever the Celestials did do and was left behind in that region only to follow them soon thereafter thx to the Darkstryder into the Lifewell because of hiding from the Rakata like Kwa and Gree did?

  13. DarthSienna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2011
    If the Celestials are the Old Ones. If Abeloth's not a Celestial, than maybe she's one of the Old Ones, or if they're all Celestials, maybe then the Old Ones encompasses all the old gods, so to speak, with the "good" Celestials being the Skyborn of Kesh, and the "bad" Celestials being the Destructors represented by Abeloth.

    Reminds me of the later seasons of Stargate SG-1 with the Ancients vs. Ori drama. Abeloth represents some kind of evil ascended being, trapped in the physical plane somehow. Seems to me, that if she were able to regain her former power, she'd be a demi-god of some sort. But YMMV.
  14. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Well, as I said, the tech might differ, but the general concept of a device launching craft at hyperspeeds towards a destination lacking any kind of recieving gate are similar- and one would presume there are only so many ways to artifically accelerate an object to those speeds, thus, there could be some relation (even if it's reverse engineered).
  15. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Question is, were they literally descendants of the Old Ones or descendants in the figurative sense as in their children? If the latter, could indicate that the Kathol were perhaps a servitor race that did the Old Ones bidding... which means that if the Old Ones = Celestials then its possible that the Kathol were like the Killiks in that they were both the Celestials servants/children who did their bidding and built their empire.
  16. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Apologies for bumping this back up but found another ancient race of which little is known on Wookieepedia. Namely, Force Demons: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Demon

    Its said that they once ruled the galaxy so question remains is when did they do so? Celestial era? If so, were they one of the threats the Celestials dealt with? Or was it perhaps the Rakatan era since I doubt the Rakata would have tolerated a competing power? What were the Force Demons origins? Are they even native to this dimension or perhaps have extradimensional origins like Waru? Or perhaps they are natural Force entities?
  17. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5


    ooooooH nice find, the Pandora Effect story is a great source indeed.

    While I am not retconning Force Demons into Celesials, I think they were one of the many "ascension"-trying species that might have found a path to half-ascension and still plagued the galaxy while not entirely moved on to the next plane.

    though these are even worse:
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Five
    this sounds like the ascension theories are supported quite well here ;)

    "Who are we? We are five?five pensive and enlightened souls who have chosen to leave the whirling maelstrom of universal life?retiring to this, our humble home beyond the dimensions, where we may rest throughout the centuries and pursue our sacred calling."
    ?Suzal

    though what is their favourite dimensionless homedimension they ascended to?
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hellhoop
    entry of the five says they ascended but hellhoop entry says it is a region within Outer Rim. so are they deluded or is their another mysterious area in Outer Rim that has a spatial rift or some other interdimensional anomaly for them, like the Mortis space artifact and other such areas?


    also I want to add: Marvel comics have lots of more weird and obscure tales we might add here, not for their ancient races value but obscure ancient tech that might be related to our races. See the Marvel timetravel tales and such stuff from Otherworlds and other Marvel star wars comics.




    another question: given the potential extragalactic origin of Silentium and Abominor (though I still prefer my above theory of them originating in GFFA), is it more likely that "droids" originated extragalactic and the GFFA got the idea from them, or that the GFFA invented them on its own independently? multiple independent inventions of the same stuff are common on Earth too by the way.


    another idea to follow up on might be to research aside ancient species and tech other notions of ancient mythologies, religions, temples throughout the EU. will post about them some other time in more detail since I got some interesting ideas about them and tying them to our races or not.


    f.e. Temple of Pomojema and Force enhancing Kaiburr crystalls. Who/what was Pomojema?
    how do other Force strong planets/conduits relate to Mortis and the Spaceartifact? are there galactic leylines and power centers like geomantics on Earth believe to exist? would make sense. and also, if Mortis is a center for choosen ones (as in more than one that popp up always at a time of need every few thousand years), which other historic points can be considered to have been such choosen one times and how did it all start in ANCIENT times maybe set up by ancient species... or timeless origin?
    how about the "soup" of the Anzati and their ancient legends and their believe that the mist of Anzat contains the soup of all beings they have drunk from.

    more to come ;)
  18. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kumumgah

    the ancestors of the Jawas and Tusken were a technological advanced race that were bombed by Rakata rendering lush Tatooine into a dessert world. How advanced were they and what did they do to get bombed? One of the less lucky powers of ancient times that got bombed instead if hiding like Sharu, Kwa, etc.?


  19. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    You know, I think I woud be fine with them being a form of proto-Celestials. Presuming of course that Celestials were not so much a species but sentients that achieved transcendence in the Force. Could vary really but if the good ones became Celestials then potentially the bad ones became something like... like Force Demons or Abeloth if she is a fallen Celestial.

    Well, from the Marvel era, we had things like the extradimensional region that the Kingdom of Dreams journeyed through: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dreams Sure they had that power psychic being but who is to say that the dimension was either a construct or some weird Force realm from the era of the Celestials.

    Personally, I think I would rather have droids being developed independently rather than being reverse engineered from Silentium/Abominor. More like civilizations going down a similar path in terms of technological development and therefore creating things like droids naturally. But thats just my view.

    Force leylines? Potentially possible I mean we have Force Nexus's so I think it would make sense if
  20. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    The idea of "ascended lifeforms" like The Five being localised to a particular area actually lies behind why I'm inclined to interpret "ascension" in Star Wars as more akin to what Abeloth offers: leaving your mortal body to escape beyond shadows, neither living, nor dead. The Five pretty much seem in the same self-delusion of naively believing they are "immortal spirits" who have refused to return to the Force like everyone else ("[we] have chosen to leave the whirling maelstrom of universal life").
    Well, Kreia certainly thought there was something special about Malachor that made it The Place where an echo could be broadcast throughout the galaxy to deafen everyone to the Force. But places like Alderaan echoed throughout the galaxy. So what made Malachor so special?

    Some kind of "leyline" where all the nexuses lined up like in a planetary alignment or something would certainly be a neat idea.:)
  21. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    Force Leylines: Do Forcehyperdrives of Rakata then maybe follow these leylines to new forcestrong worlds? So can we use Rakata galaxymap to create a leyline web?
  22. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    You know, I'm starting to like the Force leyline idea even more so as it could into the the Rakatan Force drives which I find as a brilliant idea. I mean, the Rakata could have used these ships to journey down the leylines to vibrant worlds in the Force! Very good concept in my opinion :D
  23. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    ancient secret... Belsavis... Eternity Vault... in 3rd animated trailer upcoming at E3... TFN mainpage... o_O
  24. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I assumed the creators of the Silentium and Abominor lived in the YV galaxy, and then their droids departed after the war. Or, it could be possible the Silentium creators had their war with the Abominor, departed as they were droid-lovers and the YV chased them, and then died in the void, leaving their creations to populate one of the spiral arms... unless the creators hit the Unknown Regions, colonised systems at the edge of the system, and were wiped out by the storm then.

    Wookiee is being inconsistent... did one of the Five survive or not?
  25. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    I think I also assumed that the Silentium and Abominor were droid intelligences that were native to the Vong galaxy.