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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Andrea Yates found GUILTY of murder!

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Wormie2, Mar 12, 2002.

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  1. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 1999
    I don't care what they say, no woman could murder her own children and not have something seriously broken in her head.

    She's quite obviously insane. Or was at the time, at least. She ought to be locked up in a mental hospital and not given the death penalty.
     
  2. Face Loran

    Face Loran Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 1999
    As Lord Bane has stated, the Senate isn't a current events forum. I think you may want to ask a question for discussion, or consider moving this to community or something. :)
     
  3. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 22, 1999
    What are you, an admin in waiting? This clearly is a conversation piece.
     
  4. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    This is another clear failure of the "justice" system. Mental illnesses have long been ignored in situations like this and it appears there is no end in sight. Whether it's clearly ill people on trial or people with low IQs being put to death, there are many things wrong.

    Just another example.
     
  5. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 22, 1999
    It seems as though the law is too lose where insanity is concerned. Not knowing right from wrong...I don't see how anyone can qualify to that. We all know right from wrong but sometimes things can be so broken in our heads that things get moved around and things we clearly would have seen as wrong yesterday seem right today.
     
  6. StarFire

    StarFire Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 31, 2001
    It depends. If she KNEW that she was, or would become, capable of such things before she turned psycho, then I would accept the death penalty in her case without complaint.

    Say I'm some kind of werewolf. I would be guilty of whatever crimes I committed if I failed to somehow restrain myself the night of the full moon, because I knew what I would become and what I could do.
    If she knew that she was sick and willfully failed to seek help, she's still responsible for the crimes she committed.
     
  7. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    I think it's common sense that she needs major counseling and hospitalization for right now, and if/when she's better and treated, she should be released to have her own life. She was obviously not all there when she killed her children, and the things that caused her to lose it (so to speak) are no longer present. Having to live the rest of her life knowing she no longer has her children due to her own actions is more than enough. Prison is pointless and wrong.
     
  8. Kessel Runner

    Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 1999
    The problem is this: Sanity/Insanity is defined in legal terms, not medical ones. As long as it isn't defined by medicine, it will be judgmental.


    And, I don't think it is as clear as some of you think.
     
  9. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 22, 1999
    See, this is the thing that really upsets me about this whole thing. I strongly believe that she was an abused wife. Sure, no bruises but I can't help but wonder how domineering and emotionally abusive her "perfect" husband was. Which leds me to the point that even when she was completely lucid, I don't think she could have gotten help. Not without really getting it from him.
     
  10. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    She did seek help, and repeatedly at that. It wasn't her fault that she was told wrong information by psychologists. They have the degrees, not her.
     
  11. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    I think this does have potential as a debate topic.

    In my opinion, though insane, she was still guilty of murder, and should suffer the appropriate penalty under the law (as an aside, I disagree with what that penalty should be, but that?s a topic for a Death Penalty thread). I don?t believe that sanity or lack thereof should excuse a person.

    Insanity implies that a persons mental processes are not up to standard, and are incapable of making the same rational decisions that an average person would make. Does that mean that a stupid person should get a different sentence as well, because they are not as capable of thinking their actions through as well as a smart person? No, insane or stupid or high on drugs, people deserve to be treated equally under the law.
     
  12. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 22, 1999
    I TOTALLY disagree. You can't hold one person up to standards they can't possibly reach.
     
  13. tenorjedi

    tenorjedi Jedi Knight star 5

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    Aug 17, 2000
    Well the father, Mr. "My bad", deserves whatever fate she gets as well
     
  14. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    How on earth can she be put to death for something she did while insane or obviously very sick? That makes *no* sense at all.

    This is like putting someone with a very low IQ to death. They don't understand what's going on or what they did, and Yates was not herself when she did the killing.

    Not everything is all nice and clear cut for legal purposes. Reality is not black and white and it would be good if reality won out, instead of legal garbage.
     
  15. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    Gandolf, I don't know how on earth you come to that conclusion. Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

    If someone is not able to think clearly, they should not be held responsible for their actions, and they *certainly* shouldn't be put to death when what they need is treatment and support.

    The law is filled with b.s. and this is another example of it.

    What a sad example of our sad society.
     
  16. ami-padme

    ami-padme Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 1999
    What tenorjedi said. They've got to get the father for something.

    As far as the verdict, I don't have a problem with it. I think she'll get life, not the death penalty, and that's fine with me. She should never be out on her own again.
     
  17. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    She should be out on her own again, ami-padme. Her children were the primary factors in her problem. She needed treatment before it happened, but she didn't get it. Now that her children are gone, the cause of her problem is also gone.

    She should be treated and released. Losing her children is enough to deal with.

     
  18. tenorjedi

    tenorjedi Jedi Knight star 5

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    Aug 17, 2000
    if you checked out the case she had ample warning before hand. You wouldn't be saying this about a drunk driver. (my example beforehand)

    Again the father deserves some sort of punishment, at least reckless endagerment, but she had the responsibilty to seek help when she was sane just hours days years prior. She ignored the doctors orders. She's guilty
     
  19. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 22, 1999
    I think the appropriate punishment would be keeping her in a mental facility. Not releasing her until she's stable and well past a child bearing age.
     
  20. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    Bah. I completely disagree. The drunk driving example is invalid in this case. Drinking alcohol is something a person controls. A mental illness is not something controllable (not like that, at least).
     
  21. tenorjedi

    tenorjedi Jedi Knight star 5

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    Aug 17, 2000
    both are a mental disease, both effect judgement and reasoning
     
  22. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 22, 1999
    The are both mental diseases but you've got more control over alcholism than you do over mental illness.
     
  23. Palpazzar

    Palpazzar Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 11, 2000
    For all of those who think she shouldn't be guilty because of psychological problems, do you think people should not be held responsible for their actions if they are 'crazy'?

    Hitler was messed up in the head too. We hold him responsible.
     
  24. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    Hitler is another example. He went insane over time, and had a lot of problems. I don't think he was all there at the end.

    Society is so blind to psychological problems, and/or sees them and doesn't want to do anything about it.

     
  25. Wormie2

    Wormie2 Jedi Knight star 6

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    Feb 22, 1999
    Why do you need them to be guilty, Palp? Perhaps because the real murderer is an illness that you can't punish and you need to satisfy that desire for revenge so you take it out on the person who was as much a victim as those who died? Does that really make you feel like justice has been done?
     
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