ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Darth rielsa I think it was a Force dream, where he could see the future, try to stop it and by doing so basically self-fulfill it. Nothing to do with Snoke unless they retcon it in hindsight. Mind you, Snoke as a concept didn't exist when PT were made nor when OT were made. They'll have to go backwards, if the endgame is to make Snoke the arch manipulator behind PT and OT events, and explain those events in a way that makes Snoke's involvement feel organic.

More Snoke theories after EE:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarssp...tc26/of_snokes_and_sources_the_ritual_theory/

 

They have to be careful about going too far with the whole Snoke turns everyone to the darkside power. SW has always been about individual choice and how turning to the darkside has to do with the individual giving in to their own fear and anger -- not someone else producing a lot of artificial fear and anger in them. So to do this with Anakin at least would ruin the moral value of the narrative up to now.

But perhaps if they go in this direction with Ben Solo, it could make sense, and it could add another different dimension to him and Snoke to differentiate them from Anakin and Palpatine.

Palpatine would be the kind of seducer who just reinforces those angers and fears people have, making them feel they are justified in their feelings.

Snoke would be an even greater kind of fascist who actually creates the anger and fear in people, or is the primary cause responsible for making it grow.

Anakin, despite being a slave, was never really a victim. He yearned for power and order. Kylo may turn out to be a kind of victim, and this would allow the writers to redeem him at some point.

Of course, a simple victim story is problematic, and that's why individual responsibility is usually a key aspect here. What might help sell it is if Snoke has interesting reasons for what he's done to Ben that adds some complexity to the victimization.

 

Dra--- Agreed. What you propose is fantastic, and as you say, it requires really careful, good writing. It's a slippery slope but they have talent so odds are good.

 

Rey was the sister at the force tree & Snoke was the brother that murdered her out of jealousy. She's recently been reborn, while he's probably been alive this entire time & soul the reason the darkside even exists in the first place. He's the angel who was cast out of heaven & became the devil.

Sent from my Y538 using Tapatalk

 

Anakin's birth gives them scope to go with the force trying to respond to Snoke's power by producing force users powerful enough to defeat him. The Jedi thought balance was Anakin destroying the Sith but he was really meant to destroy Snoke. Rey is the latest force child with that goal intended for her. I haven't really thought this through but if the brother/sister at the force tree is to play out,the tree may need Snoke to be replaced for 'balance' to be re-stored. This will become Kylo's legacy. Kylo and Rey have to connect with the tree at the same time. Kylo having reached a point where he can control the dark side of the force and not let it consume him as it did Snoke. The dark side of the force will always tempt those who touch the tree, as it did Snoke, but Kylo will ultimately control the temptation. If this happened,ironically Anakin's chosen one prophecy could still be seen as true as his offspring will lead to it happening. It would also potentially cover the 'mysterious' connection between Rey and Kylo and cover the ideas of a 'force bond'. They are being pulled together for the ultimate goal. The question is.....what does Luke Skywalker know of it?

 

Brother and sister of the Force Tree is fake. It's not a spoiler. I've no doubt that the tree is important and will play some pivotal role, but that particular scenario is fake. It's someone's fanfiction sold as a spoiler. The movie won't play out like that. There won't be reincarnations or anything. However, you do raise some interesting questions. For example, assuming that they are going to make Snoke an encompassing vile presence in the background of Saga's major events, I'm wondering if the following events have something to do with it:

Anakin's birth some 1000 years after the Sith was destroyed. On the outside, and certainly in the current canon, that could be a reaction to the return of the Sith.

Luke (and Leia) birth after the fall of the Jedi. Again, it seems like the Force is trying to balance things out with human counterparts who can make a difference.

Ben's birth after Anakin destroyed the Sith and supposedly brought the balance to the Force. Ben was born "in equal part good and evil" "perfect embodiment of the Force, focal point of the light side and the dark". Rey's awakening in the Force. Kylo/Ben's awakening in the Dark Side.

So what we have here is Anakin the Chosen One, Luke the New Hope, Rey and Kylo the Awakenings. All 3 happened after some major events:

Return of the Sith
Fall of the Jedi
Destruction of the Sith, rise of Snoke whatever he is, map to the first Jedi temple brings the awakenings together

Hmmm.

 

Yeah, I've never been sold on the force tree brother and sister thing but still find it interesting enough to explore.I have not seen any other ideas about the force tree put forward.

hana_solo fascinating ideas.

I'm wondering if Kylo and Rey's connection may have come through encountering the same tree at some point in their lives? Could Rey's parents have found the tree and allowed her to 'connect 'with it giving her the ridiculous power she now has? I don't know im just pondering ways it could fit into the story.

 

Rylo_Ken I find it so interesting that you think the tree may have something to do with their "mysterious connection" and "intertwined destinies" as Star Wars Databank calls it, because tree motive is very present in baby Ben's life as described in Aftermath Life Debt and Empire's End. In the former book, Leia meditates in front of the sacred Endor tree dubbed "serpent's puzzle" (ominous, foreboding name, eh?) when she feels her unborn son through the Force. In the latter book, the tree is placed beside the cradle and what do you know leia is having bad dreams and her baby is troubled by something Leia cannot feel and cannot yet understand.

OTOH, you have Rey "imagine the ocean, I see it, I see an island" and that's a verdant island from Ahch-to where that big tree is. So who knows?

There's another thing that I find interesting and that may have to do with awakenings being necessary now that Snoke is in power. Is it possible that Rey's awakening prompted Kylo's awakening because of their connection? I got the idea from this KOTR quote:



Since Databank quote is similar in the destiny part:



what if the connection is consequential in that one has effect on another? Like, when Kylo probed Rey's mind, that prompted her to probe his. Rey awakened in the Force and than Kylo awakened in the Dark Side. So I'd say that, for some reason, both are needed and that must have something to do with Snoke.

 

huh... that is a really interesting perspective

 

I think we have an entire thread devoted to discussing the Force tree.

 

do you think snoke would use a ancient sith lightsaber or do you think he will use something more modern? because i would assume we will get one fight of him vs luke

 

perhaps he doesn't use a lightsaber. can someone not use a lightsaber? i always seem to want this. first i was like, maybe maz doesn't use one. but since i've adjusted to the reality that we may see maz use one. so then i'm left with snoke... he's so decrepit anyway. can he finally be the force-user who just does things with his mind? is anyone with the force not a warrior? *whines*

not to say snoke can't throw people all over the room with his mind ofc.

 

I think he does not need a lightsaber. Ever wondered why Kylo can freeze the surrounding? He certainly did not learn it from Luke.

 

so from what i understand and correct me if i am wrong but you want snoke to be more about using the force and sith lighting instead of a saber?

 

hana_solo when you put it all like that...it's pretty revealing. I have not read the books and was not aware a tree was present a such an early stage for Ben.

I'm not sure how Snoke connects. It could be as simple as he connected to the same tree at some point in the past. As soon as you connect with it, it can never be broken, if another force user encounters it you automatically connect to them. Snoke used the connection to directly influence Kylo. It binds Rey and Kylo for life. Or, Snoke corrupted the tree and it can corrupt whoever connects with it. Kylo, possibly Rey...Reys parents? Could Kylo actually be shielding Rey from Snoke's 'advances' due to their powerful bond that he does not yet understand? So many possbilities.

 

Supposedly he isn't a Sith (Pablo) but that head injury does look like someone impaled him with a lightsaber, which could explain why he fears the Jedi. if that injury has anything to do with them. Maybe he just got drunk, fell out of the window right onto a pole.

That's why I'm flip-flopping on whether he originated from Unknown Regions or was banished/fled to Unknown region and lay low for 1000 years or something.

Rylo_Ken I think that "serpent's puzzle" is a metaphor rather than actual tree corruption. Like Adam and Eve, that sort of thing. Snake (heh, change a to o and you get Snoke) corrupts what's supposed to be a perfect specimen. I think that one of the mods proposed that maybe they are going the original sin route with Snoke. That would explain unsubtly Biblical reference (serpent + tree).

 

wasnt there like a sith emporer who was basicly immortal? what if snoke is that but tweeked?

 

i think that i'm okay if snoke doesn't use lightening either. more, you approach him and you start getting a headache, then blood runs out your nose, then... you die. okay it doesn't have to be so graphic. anyway he doesn't have to leave his throne the entire time. so i think perhaps i am craving a non-combat oriented character. i mean he *could* throw people across the room with the force, but he may not need to. he enlists others to engage in combat, but it's not really his thing. it would be super exciting if he never was a combatant. at least i think... (not saying i won't change my mind later)

i actually think this works well with him not being much of a combatant or being vulnerable physically. if someone comes at him with a lightsaber, he can of course use the raw force to keep them back and engage in a psychic attack. a really strong force user could counter, and possibly get a strike in. since it's happened before he's afraid.

 

eh i just hope whatever is planned for him delivers . i am just trying to vision a 8 foot tall puppet in some kind of fighting scene

 

I don't want Snoke to use a lightsaber either -- but what if he created a sword of some kind out of the Force itself?

 

hana_solo yeah, it's not even subtle.I'm not religious but I kind of like the idea anyway. It's a simple concept that people will understand and you can layer it with the back story of all 3 characters.

I really,really hope Snoke does not use a saber. I want his power to be something we've simply not seen before. Luke Skywalker isn't standing on the edge of a cliff purely through self pity. He does not yet have the key to defeat Snoke.

Any suggestions on what kind of force powers Snoke could have?Just for fun.

 

that's even more awesome.

eta: okay i've adjusted this. he can be a combatant in that you just end up fighting all this invisible Force, like the wind itself, and it very difficult to even get to him physically. he'll just sit on his throne. perhaps he can also engage in a psychic attack at the same time.

 

Agreed with everyone about Snoke and the lightaber usage. Better not unless it's something really creative and never seen before as Dra--- suggested.

 

Yes - Vitiate.

My Snoke theory(tm) has been for a long time that the Big Bad of the ST is someone like Vitiate - ancient, immortal, and with an epically overblown ambition - though I doubt they'd ever call him by that name. Those who already know Vitiate from non-canon sources would be able to put two and two together, but there's no need to explain that type of villain. It only took a few lines of dialogue to "explain" Sauron.

My only quibble is that I'm not at all sure Snoke is that level of baddie, but someone who serves the bigger evil (kind of like Saruman, as I said in another thread). But who knows. That's probably just wishful thinking on my part because I don't find Snoke very intimidating from what we've seen so far.

 

hmmm ok i dont read the books because i just dont have the time to honestly so i try to catch up on everything by youtube videos and discussions . i think for a fan like yourself the reason why you dont think snoke is intimidating now is because well we only got him as a hologram we never saw his true form i guess you can say puppet wise

a part of me just wishes disney would just have serkis mocap the entire charachter in fight scenes but . lets see what happens