ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

And besides the Luke stuff you had the reference to ancient stuff in the aftermath books. There is really only one character that could possibly have a connection to much of that ancient stuff and they are keeping his origins hidden for now. Where there is smoke there is fire usually is one way to look at it.

 

lawton

Fixed that for you.

 

There is definitely a lot of evidence that Snoke is indeed ancient. For example, there's this quote from Empire's End: "The emperor was convinced that something waited from him out there - some origin of the Force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance."

My theory that Snoke is the ancient rogue Jedi that founded the Sith would fit with this idea that Snoke is ancient and connected to the "origin of the force." If Snoke was the first living being to wield the dark side of the force with skill, then, in a way, the origins of the dark side in the physical universe can be traced back to him.

In terms of the First Jedi Temple, it's also possible either Snoke did not know that's where Luke was hiding, or that Snoke was never been trusted enough by the ancient Jedi to be taken there.

 

I don't like the idea of Snoke being the one who founded the Sith. I don't think he's the "dark presence" either. (A theory I have on Snoke is that he was a member of a group of Force users who betrayed the Sith when they originally ruled the galaxy, then this group of Force users formed the Jedi: a religion based on a lie. That could be what Luke discovered during his exile, and why he thinks the Jedi must end.)

I think it's more likely that the "dark presence" called to many, not just Sidious. Maybe Snoke is one that it called out to, and he actually found it, and that's what's keeping him alive. It could also be the reason why he knows so much.

 

I kind of wish Snoke was Rae Sloane. She made it out to the UR and stumbles across the strongest dark side artifact or place in the galaxy. It completely twists and decays her body, but she's now the most powerful dark sider. I know that's not the case, but I would like it very much.

 

It's possible that the "dark presence" isn't Snoke and there's an additional villain we haven't met, but it seems that having three major villains in the sequel trilogy (Kylo, Snoke, and someone else) might be a bit too much. Given the limited time in movies, I think it makes much more sense to have Snoke himself be the dark presence. Having him be the ancient founder of the Sith who has the power to save himself from death would certainly fit the bill,.

 

That is the connection I am most interested about - Luke and Snoke.

 

yeah, if snoke can't be the Big Evil, then his character is inadequate for its role in the trilogy. there shouldn't need to be an even more evil Big Evil in addition to snoke. an exception is if snoke is channeling some darkness that couldn't take form on its own (it can only possess living creatures). in that case it's not exactly an additional villain; it's part of what the entity 'snoke' is.

 

I completely agree. Also, even if the darkness Snoke is channeling cannot take form on its own, then that could still fit with my theory that Snoke is the ancient rogue Jedi that founded the Sith. If Snoke was the founder of the Sith, then he was seemingly betrayed at some point by his Sith apprentices and killed or severely injured. However, perhaps Snoke had the power that Plagueis never had: the power to save himself from death and transfer his darkness into another vessel (i.e., Snoke).

 

Any possibility that Snoke is an ancient Whill that went bad?

 

And if the Sith in canon didn't come around until well after the Jedi formed that could explain Snoke not knowing where that temple was at. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if they changed things to where Snoke was kind of what Darth Ruin was in legends.

Ruin also was part of George's notes though he wasn't named in them which matches up with the character being based somewhat on a character George was thinking about.

 

That's certainly is a possibility, but I wonder if making Snoke something too metaphysical like a Shaman of the Whills would be too confusing and hard to explain in the limited time of a film. I think one of the big benefits of making Snoke the ancient rogue Jedi that founded the Sith is that it'd be pretty easy to explain.

 

Good chance I think. We know we're getting the journal...easier tie in.

 

Do we know we are getting the journal? How so?

 

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/9d0d2a11-6b3c-4e45-8e8a-8e575d28409b/scale-to-width-down/627


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Snoke can't be the founder of the Sith since we already know he's NOT a Sith.

 

Even though my theory argues that Snoke was the founder of the Sith, it also asserts that Snoke was betrayed by his Sith apprentices and so he is no longer a Sith. Snoke now rejects Sith philosophies like the Rule of Two and only wants to the rule the galaxy by himself.

Link to the Full Theory: http://starwarsanalysis.com/who-is-snoke/

 

I agree that the dark side wellspring that Sidious sensed in the Unknown Regions is not necessarily a being or person. After all, the descriptions don't quite fit the idea of a personal being too well, and it almost over-hypes whoever it might be. More likely, I think, what Sidious sensed was a place imbued with the dark side. This is a concept very familiar in Star Wars lore, after all, and we have seen something similar on the light side (the midichlorian homeworld), and it would make sense that a place like that could exist for the dark side, but be rare.

 

The "Snoke is/was a Whill" theory might interest me if I knew what a Whill whas.

 

When there's a Whill, there's a way.

 

i think it's more likely he was a jedi. the sith are driven by their passions and snoke seems to be against that approach. like the jedi he thinks one should remain calm while using the force--it's just that he's a bit too high strung for that and kylo kind of fails miserably at being dispassionate when he's not succeeding at it. i'll probably have to watch TLJ to fully let go of this idea. i got it from the novelization.

if there really was this huge conflict between the jedi and sith over 1000 years ago in which the jedi slaughtered the sith, someone had to think that was a good idea. it's possible that the sith became worse and worse in response to the jedi (the two sides became increasingly opposed). perhaps among the jedi certain puritanical sorts led the charge against the sith. sometime after, these extremist "jedi" were excommunicated, once the others understood they weren't jedi at all because they served the dark side. they didn't appear to serve it at first because they were moralizers. maybe snoke believes his way is what the jedi should have been. he probably holds a grudge for being excommunicated.

 

Well not a Banite Sith anyway but he could still maybe be an ancient Sith that was driven out to the unknown regions with how they answer questions.

 

This has been a theory for a while now, and one I am admittedly rather fond of. I think that there is a chance that he is a "fallen Whill," akin to the fallen angel Lucifer.

 

Hidalgo said there were no Sith whatsoever in TFA, so I interpret that as Snoke is not any type of Sith; Banite or otherwise.

 

Where there's a Whill, there's a whey. Snoke is Little Miss Muffet confirmed!