ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Seriously, can someone give me the definition of the word "Whill," please?

Asking for Force ghost of friend.

 

Along came Bor Gullet, who sat down beside him.

 

As for what a Whill actually is, nobody knows. The legend is that the Whills are the figures who ultimately record the events of the Star Wars saga.

 

"All is as the Force Whills it." Or is it "All is as the Force swills it."?
Be sure to put plenty of emphasis on the h when saying Whill.

Spoiler

 

Perhaps not Rae Sloane, but Snoke definitely should have been female if (all plot twists aside) Rey is truly the protagonist and Snoke is truly the antagonist. In mythology and fairy tales, it's customary for the hero and villain to be the same sex because the two are basically a reflection of each other. The point of those old yarns is to prove a point or "lesson" by showing the good/right and bad/wrong side of what is essentially the same entity, but represented by two separate characters. Without this dynamic, the story loses a lot of meaning, and becomes more of a simple "let's kill the bad guys" story. With all this in mind, the story of the ST can only unfold in one of several different ways:

• Rey learns from Luke, gets powerful, and crushes Kylo Ren and Snoke like bugs. Could be entertaining, like any 80s Arnold movie, but no deeper mythological value.

• Rey gets sidelined as a secondary hero or catalyst, and a redeemed Kylo Ren takes over to defeat Snoke, either on his own or with Rey's help. This is more in line with the mythical fairy tale values I mentioned, but way too similar to the OT and predictable.

• Rey is actually the main villain! Snoke was merely a dark catalyst to turn her to the dark side, and it's up to a female heroine (perhaps Luke's real daughter in a future SST) to defeat her, or Rey has to somehow defeat the dark side within herself. Kylo Ren would obviously factor into this in some way.

The last option is the one I think they'll more or less go with, because it's unpredictable yet satisfying on a mythical level. This is why I believe Rey is almost certainly some kind of heir to the Emperor, whether by blood or she's some sort of Sith'ari figure. Mark my words, she was meant to takeover as part of the backup plan so heavily hinted at in the Aftermath novels. This is also why I believe Snoke is pretty much a nothing character, and not at all like Papatine/Sidious in the previous movies. I think Snoke is there as a kind of threshold guardian for Rey to becoming the new Empress of the First Order. She'll either kill him and take his place, or he has some greater methodology to getting her to that point. Regardless, the purpose of his character is for his "plot energy" (for lack of better terminology), to get transferred to her. This story is more in line with Revan's, rather than Anakin's or Luke's, which makes sense when your remember that JJ Abrams was a big fan of KOTOR, and he was the primary reason why the initial story treatments were scrapped/modified in favor of the current one.

 

Dispassionate? He gets angry with Hux and Ren, orders the destructiion of several NR planets, including the capital, and is a dark sided.

 

um you can be dark side without taking the sith approach. that snoke is not a sith is fact. so the question is, what's different about him. it's not that he's not evil or not on the dark side.

in the novelization kylo calls vengeance childish (or some similar adjective... foolish? waste of time?). it states that much of kylos training has been abt operating in the absence of emotion (sith are usually fueled by emotion). snoke actually got angry because hux was reacting to him as though the blame game is important. he doesn't care whose fault it is the droid escaped, only abt what they'll do now that it has. snoke doesn't want to focus on his anger and frustration. kylo actually expends his in his tantrums. there is something in all of this. i'm not saying they're good at being dispassionate. they're not. but they might be aiming for it or might consider being ruled by passions like the sith the wrong path.

 

I agree that Snoke may have been a Jedi at one point, as he seems to appreciate both the light and dark sides of the force. For example, he says this in The Force Awakens novelization about why Kylo Ren is a good apprentice: "It is where you are from. What you are made of. The dark side - and the light." This would fit with my theory that Snoke was a rogue Jedi that founded the Sith, as being a former Jedi Snoke would be more likely to appreciate the benefits of knowing the light side, as well as the dark.

 

Nice! I like this. Either way, we need to have a female big baddie for a trilogy in the future or past. There was the voice of a female Sith Lord heard on the Rebels episode where we see a super weapon on Malachor.

 

Possibly but maybe he isn't considered a Sith any longer after being driven out. If he did have that background he probably pre-dated the Banite line of Sith. Just saying it could be a possibility. Does official canon even cover pre-Banite Sith any longer? Maybe that part in the novel about that Jedi turning but they aren't canon unless Disney wants them to be I think.

 

Rather than just taking over the galaxy I'm thinking Snoke's goal should be gaining access to the Cosmic Force. He'd be pretty darn powerful if he succeeded.

 

I don't think snoke is vitiate, but these excerpts about vitiate seem very familiar.
1.) Vitiate "could suppress his children's personas and even their Force-sensitivity, making them the ultimate covert operatives, and further possess them like puppets." This reminds me of the theories that Rey once had force training but her memory of it is suppressed.

2.) "he used their combined power to perform the most complex ritual of Sith magic ever performed, ripping the Force from the entire planet of Nathema and absorbing the force of every living thing on the surface." Didn't Aftermath: Empire's End mention a ritual that would be performed to wipe out everyone at the Battle of Jakku? Also fits in with how Jakku used to have water and vegitation and stuff.

3.) Vitiate used death and chaos to restore himself to a physical form. Snoke is pretty mangled and I doubt he's going to stay that way.

 

Maybe they came with Snoke from The Beyond? They all his crew an ****, feel me?

Hey! Maybe they'll have silly leprechaun shoes or whatever too.

But in Star Wars the bad guys' guards have mostly served as set-dressing. Mostly.

 

While I'm not a fan of movies that get too political or draw TOO much from the present....I found it interesting that Snoke is being presented as Trump. Big evil rich guy who likes glamor, and projects himself as bigger than he really is. ( a throne with gold and marble.....) Casino full of rich A'holes like Rian described that can carve their way out of the galaxies problems.
Seems a bit TOO on the nose. I'm aware Star Wars always had a political vibe but it never seemed so obvious. The things that were obvious always annoyed me like Anakin's line in Episode 3. I wish their thoughts were a bit more subtle.

 

I doubt it. I don't think Johnson publicly talks about stuff like that too much like some directors do. I am sure its based on stereotypes but I doubt Trump has anything to do with it. Snoke does come off as its my way or the highway type of leadership but I would imagine most big baddies do.

Yep Snoke comes off as having a shorter fuse in the novel and as a lot more threatening in the extended scenes there to Kylo when he screws up letting Rey get free. That is one reason I don't buy into any of the Wizard of Oz theories or the thinking he isn't even more powerful than Kylo force wise. You also have Hux who knows Kylo doesn't care for him willing to take jabs at him to Snoke. If Hux knew Kylo was anywhere near Snoke in power I doubt he would be so quick to behave that way and you would think Hux would have to know the real deal in his position.

 

Mark‏ @quigonsmith 2h2 hours ago
From the Reddit AMA with David Kamp: "Rian was fairly up front in saying that Snoke is not a character he particularly gets into in TLJ"

 

Marvelous. Snoke is the only character I'm really interested in, so Rian Johnson saying that is wonderful news.

*Punches the nearest wall*

 

the chances of cgi gollom being the final villain as going down dramatically

 

I am getting to really be ticked off if all we get to see is Snoke in his gold robe and genie shoes without Luke even telling Rey what his basic background is. I hope they don't pull this mess all the way up until Ep 9. I wonder if Johnson refusing to give anything related to what Snoke's species is hints at anything? You would think he would say something even if not giving the exact species if he didn't think he might give something away.

 

I was really baffled as well when I read Rian's comment about not really concentrating on Snoke's character at all. I mean maybe he just isn't the big bad in the end and as such doesn't really need characterization on any kind, but honestly why then even add such a useless character? The directors have now been pretty upfront about the fact that there is no premeditated plot for the entire trilogy, so I think J.J. Abrams just threw this character in the air in the hopes that the directors after him decide to do something interesting with the character, but for some reason Rian seemes to have chosen different path. We'll see, maybe it will work wonderfully and after the movie it makes perfect sense that Snoke isn't really an issue at all, but for now I remain skeptical.

 

I think its because he won't really be in the movie much until Ep 9. In the OT we hardly saw Palpatine until Ep 6 - even less than Snoke. I just hope they at least give a clue about his origins in this movie however. As far as how things evolved I am sure they already have his basic background despite the changing directors. I think Pablo or Kennedy said Snoke was the one main character based off some of Georgia's thinking before he sold out.

 

I think a little too much is being made of Rian's comments. He just said that Snoke isn't a character that he delves into much in the movie. Not that there isn't a backstory for the character in place. As you say, we know that they have something figured out for him, as Pablo said that his was one character that had it's origins in Lucas' original story for the ST. I think they are just following thr pattern of the OT and PT, with only the third movie taking time to expand upon the Sidious role.

 

Sidious is only a hologram save for one scene in TPM, is in one scene in AOTC before being revealed and having a larger part in ROTS. Sure we know that he is Palpatine but story-wise we don't know that. Same for the Emperor who appears even less until ROTJ. So Snoke really doesn't need to appear to have some backstory weaved around him.

 

i saw that....i must admit this is the only disappointment so far amongst such cool things...i was hoping we would learn more about Snoke. Make this character unique; and not just the new Palpatine. I really hope he has an interesting backstory..

 

i still think we'll learn more about snoke, but he's not a focus