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ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by dlbates, Dec 20, 2015.

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  1. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

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    May 12, 2015

    Look at Snoke and tell me if you really think he could have trained under Luke. He isn't afraid of Luke himself - he is afraid of the Jedi rising again. Snoke has probably been around more than a thousand years minimum.

    Look at my avatar also. They were considering that look for Snoke at one time. I would put the chances at .001% he trained with Luke.
     
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  2. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

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    Dec 22, 2015
    As I said previously, I think he helped Luke to see who would be a valuable padawan. The others got wiped.
    He used the moment where only one FS trained person in the galaxy was left.
    He chose the one he liked and killed the rest.
    He is afraid of the new Jedi because he knows that this kind of trick won't work a 2nd time
     
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  3. Rafael Vas

    Rafael Vas Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2015

    Ok. It is just my point of view with 6 arguments. Which arguments do you have to support your theory? Did we miss something?

    As far as I remember Snoke is afraid of Luke.



    00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:45,025
    If Skywalker returns...


    00:49:45,566 --> 00:49:49,571
    the new Jedi will rise.

    This a Snoke right?
     
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  4. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

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    May 12, 2015
    Don't take anything I ever say like I am being arrogant because none of us know the actual truth right now. I respect everyones views when it comes to Snoke theories even though I may disagree with some.

    Here is some of what leads me to believe Snoke is most likely very old and ancient when compared to a human lifespan.

    1. My avatar - They actually did graphics with this look before settling on his final look. He looks like something undead basically like a lich snake man that has been kept alive unnaturally by some crazy darkside power or something like that.

    2. Serkis said it was safe to assume Snoke was very well aware of the past.

    3. It has been stressed he is very old and had apprentices prior to Kylo Ren.

    4. He is somehow aware of specific things like how Vader killed Palpatine even though he wasn't present for that. That would suggest he had some crazy powers even back then.

    5. Snoke just gets worked up about Luke because he knows he could try and get the Jedi Order going again. It would be hard to stay in power no matter how strong you are with the darkside (unless the Jedi don't know your identity) with hundreds or thousands of Jedi running around and only a couple of darkside users.

    6. For some reason in the 1st Aftermath novel the author has a line in there about Sith a very long time ago living unnaturally centuries past their normal lifespans by draining other force users or something similar to that. I think Han telling Kylo that Snoke would crush him once he was done using him was hinting at Snoke's unnatural lifespan possibly.

    7. The Aftermath novels saying Jakku was very significant a 1000 years ago and would be again (Palpatine) and Kylo using that ancient design lightsaber which in new canon I think dates back around 2,000 years ago or longer.

    8. In Lucasfilm’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi, the Skywalker saga continues as the heroes of The Force Awakens join the galactic legends in an epic adventure that unlocks age-old mysteries of the Force and shocking revelations of the past. Star Wars: The Last Jedi opens in U.S. theaters on December 15, 2017 - I think that leans to Snoke being part of that revelation and might be part of the reason why Luke searched that ancient Temple out.
     
  5. D'an

    D'an Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 21, 2014
    I developed a similar theory just after seeing The Force Awakens. The best way Snoke would have had access to young Kylo was if he was at the academy as an ally to Luke & Lor San Tekka (a wolf in sheeps clothing). The Knights of Ren may have infiltrated and destroyed from within. Turning Kylo most likely coincided with revelations about his family history. Kylo didn't need to take a field trip to find Vader's warped helmet- it was at the academy in Luke's possession as a reminder of the dark side's ability to seduce and corrupt. Once revealed there would have been no denying. Snoke encouraged Kylo to embrace his grandfather's legacy rather than shun it.
     
  6. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Snoke and Rey both have something to do with the Whills. That's how they're going to expand our knowledge of the GFFA.
     
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  7. Grievpalpy75

    Grievpalpy75 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 31, 2015
    I still think that Snoke is a Whill who turned to the dark side.
     
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  8. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012

    It's a good guess. It would explain his funky interpretation of balance.

    We know that balance is a theme of the ST. There will probably be different definitions of it that people will be fighting over.
     
  9. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

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    May 12, 2015
    Possible and that would explain Leia knowing who Snoke is but what mainly leads me from thinking that is what happened is just how badly broken down Snoke is physically. His whole body seems to literally be decaying so I would think he wasn't much better off back when Kylo betrayed Luke. I think he did the final corrupting of Kylo just before the massacre and that he just put thoughts in his head from the unknown regions prior to that. I guess my thinking still on it right now is Snoke ended up having to hide out in the unknown regions for some reason a very long time ago and Palpatine falling along with Vader gave him his opening to come back on the scene in a big way when the remnants of the Empire ended up there. It seemed Snoke was even luring Palpatine to come out to the unknown regions well before he was killed. You have Snoke apparently even reaching out to a pregnant Leia. My guess would be Leia either learned about Snoke from Luke after the massacre or she could have even communicated with him while she was in politics when the First Order officially revealed themselves after returning from the unknown regions.
     
  10. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

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    Dec 22, 2015
    He was the Master of Darth Plagueis the wise!
     
  11. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

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    May 12, 2015
    tHAT WOULD
    That would explain Snoke being wise also like Kylo said. No way for Plagueis to be wise if his master wasn't wise also. :)
     
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  12. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 16, 2014
    If Snoke is a Whill and very very old, then that's his reason for being accepted by Luke at the academy, and having the ear of the students, being known of by Leia, and sharing with young Jedi some old Jedi knowledge. Makes him a real Lucifer archetype. If Snoke is a Luke confidant, then Luke tells him what happened with Vader and the Emperor, so Snoke knows how to tell this to Ben and manipulate him.

    Perhaps Snoke posed as the last of the Whills, and thus tricked Luke. After the deception plays out, Ben turns to the dark side and the Jedi academy is destroyed, Luke seeks answers about Snoke and the Whills at the first Jedi Temple, where he finds Ach-To, and some surviving descendants of the original Whills on the island who are still caretakers of the original Jedi writings and artifacts. These Whills descendants tell Luke of the "fall of Snoke" and how Snoke turned on the original Jedi and the Whills and became evil, the first to corrupt the Force to dark purposes.

    Maybe Whills are a naturally long-living species, unless you use the Dark side, so Snoke's natural constitution of long and healthy life is in bitter conflict with his dark side use, which gives him power but also cripples his body at the same time. As the first Dark Side user, Snoke is cursed. His body suffers immensely, but being a Whill he doesn't die. Duality.
     
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  13. Orochi Oni

    Orochi Oni Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 8, 2013
    The problem here is that we've already seen the big bad guy posing as a good guy. It would be Palpatine all over again. We need something different.
     
  14. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

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    May 10, 2016
    It's unlikely with the characters we have, but Id kind of like a reversal. A good guy posing as a bad guy, kind of a double agent thing.
     
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  15. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 16, 2014
    Well, we wouldn't literally see it because it already happened years before TFA, but we would hear some about it, just like in the OT we heard about the Clone Wars and Anakin's fall from grace but didn't see it on screen.

    Are you also of the opinion that Kylo should not be redeemed because we've already seen a darksider redeemed before? The ST is going to roam over some of the same territory that the OT and many many other myth-based stories have in the past. It's all a remix of what's come before.

    You could have Snoke as a dark Whill known to Luke the whole time as an evil character, but because of his status of Force knowledge Snoke is still able to seduce Ben despite Luke's warnings, but it's more interesting IMO if there's deception and betrayal involving Luke, which of course plays into his heartache and feeling of failure we now see play out in the ST. I also just really like the idea of Snoke playing the kindly, old, wobbly Whill who appears harmless as he espouses nuggets of wisdom about the Force—all the while he's plotting to destroy Skywalker.
     
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  16. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Maybe Snoke never posed as something good to Luke, but he tried to misrepresent the Whills through his own distorted lens?

    Maybe he tried to sell Luke on his interpretation of the Force?

    I like the idea that Snoke is an evil Whill who just doesn't see himself that way, and he sees no reason to lie about his views, which he truly believes in.

    Palpatine believed in a selfish evil and personal power for the sake of it. Maybe Snoke perceives himself as truth teller?
     
  17. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 16, 2014
    This type of speculation will be easier to do once we know more about Snoke. All we know right now is that he's OK with destroying the Republic system, he's afraid of the Jedi returning and he wanted Kylo to kill his own father. That would seem to make his worldview and motives the complete opposite of those held by Luke Skywalker. To me, that makes Snoke and Luke characters that are difficult to represent as coexisting with a mere difference of opinion. Could Snoke try to sell Luke his view of the Force like the Joker tried to sell Batman on his view of chaos? Maybe. He could say something like "Look what all this fighting between the dark and the light has caused--nothing but pain." But then, the irony is his actions show no real sign of having anything to do with the light side.
     
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  18. Orochi Oni

    Orochi Oni Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 8, 2013
    I was against the idea of another member of the Skywalker family being corrupted by a dark master to begin with. If Kylo is redeemed at all, hopefully they come up with an interesting way to do it. If he was redeemed because of his affection for a family member, I'd absolutely be against it.

    Snoke pretending to be a good guy would be far too close to what we've already seen.

    In my opinion, one of the major things that TFA lacked was originality. Going forward, I really hope that changes.
     
  19. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

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    May 12, 2015
    I definitely don't want another redemption story. Kylo in a backstabbing way could help bring the downfall of Snoke but not another returning to the light ending. I wonder how they will kill Snoke off in Ep 9. I doubt we see anything like him being thrown down an energy shaft and instead see some big power display taking multiple force users to overcome him or if they didn't go that route they could have him killed by his ship being blown up I guess or something like that.
     
  20. Orochi Oni

    Orochi Oni Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 8, 2013
    I'm still sticking with what I've been saying all along: I don't think this story will end with Episode IX.

    I think we'll either see Kylo killing Snoke, becoming the dark master himself (a dark side apprentice killing his master and taking his place is something we've never actually seen in the films); or, in a dark mirror of what happened in RotJ, Rey will kill Snoke or Kylo and become the new threat for the next trilogy.
     
  21. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 16, 2014
    I could see Kylo helping Rey to destroy Snoke toward the end of 9, but instead of joining the light side, Kylo turns on Rey, and assumes control of what's left of the First Order and, though the immediate threat of Snoke is gone and the Resistance wins the space battle at the end of 9, we are left wondering what evil Supreme Leader Kylo Ren will do next.
     
  22. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

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    May 12, 2015
    Have they ever said how long they plan to wait to make 10-12 - even a rough estimate?
     
  23. Orochi Oni

    Orochi Oni Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 8, 2013
    Not to my knowledge.
     
  24. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Well, they never said they'd make a 4th trilogy, did they?
     
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  25. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

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    May 12, 2015

    I thought they did say a 4th trilogy would be made.