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Official Info Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) -Episode 8/9

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi & IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by dlbates, Dec 20, 2015.

  1. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    And that's a wrap. Thread over.
    Last edited by Gigoran Monk, Sep 11, 2017
  2. lawton Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2015
    star 4
    ...
    Last edited by lawton, Sep 12, 2017
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  3. Orochi Oni Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    star 2
    I wonder if we'll get to see what Abrams and Kasdan had in mind -- if anything at all -- for Snoke beyond TFA, or if TLJ has thrown a spanner in the works.
  4. lawton Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2015
    star 4
    I bet some of Kasdan's thinking went into it as far as Snokes general background stuff anyway. I doubt Abrams worried about it beyond TFA.
  5. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    now that JJA is back (opener of the snoke mystery) and RJ didn't really cover snoke... that leaves it to JJA. it's kind of amusing.
    Dra--- likes this.
  6. ZY-Fighter Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2017
    star 1
    Was anyone else really disappointed when the Aftermath books provided no answers? Right to the last page of Empire's End I was hanging out for something, anything.

    Is joke, yes? :confused: Purely using the 3 3/4" figure in the BB-8 playset as a guide, I don't remember Vader being that tall.
  7. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 6
    Thank God we are going to be spared an essay or press statement on Snoke in the ST. It would be much better to explore his background with an anthology film, book, or TV show, assuming his history is really worth dramatizing (is he really the Big Bad or is Kylo?).

    I'm so happy that JJ and Rian will avoid the comic book syndrome where some obvious origin story is briefly shown or told to fit the pacing of a 1:30 film.

    By the way, the books have explained how the First Order rose in the GFFA, so I'm not sure why people who already know about this also want that information in the films. If you don't want to read the books, the exposition can be found in forums or wikis.

    In TFA, JJ was smart to show and dramatize the First Order's first big attack and ascendance on the New Republic. The Starkiller sneak attack was a perfect way to show this -- and we should emphasize sneak attack. The whole idea is that the First Order has been quietly building power without the New Republic's awareness. This is all clear from the movie, and there's no need at all for a scene where the New Republic wonders how the First Order became powerful.

    This is an example of how some fans desire more exposition, but desire is different from need.
    Rhyoth likes this.
  8. TheAvengerButton Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2011
    star 4

    I don't think they would put story information that they can potentially tell in the movies into books that only die-hards would read.
  9. Orochi Oni Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    star 2
    How do you know what will or won't be revealed about Snoke in the next two films? Are you privy to information that the rest of us aren't?

    You seem to think there is no possible way for the filmmakers to incorporate background on Snoke and the First Order in a well thought out and interesting way without telling viewers to go and read some books. You don't have much faith in the fimmakers' abilities, do you?

    We've already established that you're perfectly happy with the idea of Snoke being a generic clone of the OT Emperor. Is it really difficult to understand that not everyone shares that opinion and wants Snoke to be as different as possible? And the reason people want that isn't because they don't understand how storytelling works, it's because they just don't share your opinion.

    You also seem happy with the idea that some people might not get what they want out of these new films. Nope. Is that your intention?

    It's perfectly acceptable to disagree with those of us who feel that Snoke needs to be more than a generic villain, but don't try and convince us that our opinion is wrong and we don't understand how storytelling works. That makes you look a bit daft.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Sep 13, 2017
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  10. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    in my continued efforts to turn the snoke thread into the rae sloane thread, i've now read the phasma book and gathered the necessary "intel" that was already available elsewhere on the internet.

    Show Spoiler
    cardinal is trying to talk to armitage hux about a "sensitive" matter (tattling on phasma lol) not knowing that hux knows full well the sort of person phasma is since it's the sort of person he is too--a psychopath. in the conversation, cardinal says, "Sir, if I may say so, if Admiral Sloane were here--"

    "well she's not," armitage snaps. "any other threats you'd like to hold over my head?"

    the other passage is
    and that's all there is. what i really wanna know is ofc what happened to sloane and who had a hand in it. i don't think this really helps with that. but i suspect it was after phasma came on board. and perhaps phasma killed sloane for armitage? armitage notes that phasma is good at making problems disappear.

    it seems the FO went through a leadership transition to being more psychopathic. sloane wasn't a psychopath and would have stopped approving of some FO practices at some point (she would have become a "problem"). the answer might be in aftermath to figure out where her lines are drawn better. was the line drawn at stealing kids from all over the galaxy? was it drawn when she realized that SKB was being built? did she adjust to some things like a frog in boiling water?

    my guess is that sloane was out after phasma killed brendol. my other guess is that armitage had something to do with whatever happened to sloane and it perhaps doesn't sit well with him because she was kind to him as a child and protected him against his father. and my next guess is that snoke approved but didn't necessarily call for it (though maybe he hinted) because he takes perverse pleasure out of getting people to do terrible things, especially if that causes the person any suffering.

    cardinal otoh seems to probably reflect what sloane's morals were. and perhaps he mistook her ethics (she's not the most ethical person, but she did have some ethics) as the FO's ethics, supported also by the FO's brainwashing propaganda. sloane likely kept brendol in line too, making it seem that the FO was unified in this. unfortunately cardinal was really the odd man out and it's not until now that he sees that the leadership are psychos and the children he cares about are simply being transformed into psychos.

    but cardinal isn't the only odd man out. i think there are probably a lot more of them in the FO. armitage hux knew that cardinal was a "good man" and that he does what he thinks is right consistently. he told cardinal he needs good men like him on his side.
    Last edited by oncafar, Sep 13, 2017
  11. Dandelo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2014
    star 7
    I for one hope that we do indeed get a resolution for Snoke in this trilogy,

    I shouldn't have to wait for a comic, book or anthology film to get answers.
    If that makes me someone who likes to be "spoon fed" then hey, gimme the spoon.
    Last edited by Dandelo, Sep 13, 2017
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  12. Orochi Oni Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    star 2
    I think it's actually a good thing that nothing has been revealed about Snoke in any of the books so far. The less we learn about him in books, the more likely we are to get the important information on film. They could then flesh things out in later books once the movies are over.
    oncafar likes this.
  13. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I'm still going with the Jedi Order being formed to defeat Snoke and Snoke corrupting the Jedi who went on the found the Sith.
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  14. All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    I'd be cool with this. Keep him an ancient evil, tie him into the mythos a bit. Maybe he's in those books wee see in the trailer.
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  15. Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films - On Vacation

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 6
    I suggest you find a way to respond without the personal attacks next time.
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  16. Orochi Oni Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    star 2
    I call it how I see it. How would you describe someone who seems to enjoy seeing people disappointed?
  17. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 6
    I don't usually respond to posts that have to resort to ad hominem and strawperson arguments because they lack sufficient logic and facts, especially when it's clear my position is either misunderstood or intentionally distorted.

    But since I have focused a lot of late on the non-necessity of filling in Snoke's background in TLJ, it's possible some people actually think I'd be against LFL making the character unique. Nothing could be more untrue. I just 1) think they can show his difference by focusing on his current goals, which may be unrelated to his origin story, or unrelated to how he became leader of the First Order. Rian's said that he'll focus on Snoke's current goals, and I said before that's all we need at this point.

    My argument has long been, since TFA, that Snoke may just be a stepping stone character for Kylo Ren. A rumor that we heard a long time ago suggested this may be the plot. In such a scenario, even if Snoke was an emperor clone, it would change things up by having Kylo kill him, and it would make plot sense for him to be an emperor stand in that situation because the whole point would be to say "look, Kylo did what Vader never did."

    It's also reasonable to argue that it's a waste of time to make Snoke the most unique character possible if he's just a stepping stone character. If you're going to make him that interesting, then you'd want him to really be the big bad, and my objection to many posters here is their assumption that Snoke must necessarily be the new big bad. He may be, but he doesn't necessarily have to be, and your assumption that we need to start learning about him is entirely dependent on the idea that he's actually the big bad. We don't know for certain yet.

    If Snoke is the real big bad, then yes, I'd like to see them make him different from Palpatine. People who have read my posts here over the years are familiar with my position that whoever replaces the Sith shouldn't just be a Sith by different name, a Dith, but should actually be different in some fundamental way. And many here, including me, have noticed that Snoke seems to have more control over his anger than Palpatine, which may suggest that difference. Time will tell.

    But yes, I do have a problem with those who want SW to explain more than they need to because I think the in medias res style aesthetic of SW is something that makes it especially fun and uniquely SW. Rian Johnson and JJ agree, and that is the reason I don't expect any essays on Snoke in the ST. We'll simply get what's necessary to understanding his current goals, and that's perfect.

    As for my knowledge of narrative, I'd suggest it's "daft" for people who simply understand it from the POV of a hobbyist to assume that they understand as well as someone paid to teach it and about to earn their PhD in it from one of the best creative writing programs in the country. While people have a perfect right to their opinion, it doesn't follow that their opinion can't be wrong. That's just pride talking, and whenever I'm wrong about something, I have no problem admitting so.

    EDIT: And yes, I think it can be constructive when entitled fans are disappointed. Narrative isn't meant to please everyone, and it isn't even meant to be enjoyed all the time. Sometimes narrative is best when it frustrates fan expectations.
    Last edited by Dra---, Sep 13, 2017
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  18. Orochi Oni Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    star 2
    You ruined a perfectly good post with that penultimate paragraph. That sounds very elitist. People can understand the difference between good and bad storytelling without having a PhD.

    I tip my hat to rest of the post, though.
  19. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    everything is bad storytelling on this forum. it's like the boy who cried wolf. i can go either way on the PhD comment... lol
  20. Orochi Oni Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    star 2
    Do wolves exist in Star Wars?

    'The Boy Who Cried Rancor'.
  21. Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films - On Vacation

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 6
    If "calling it how you see it" involves insulting another user than we're going to have a problem. I'm not interested in your opinion of anyone here. Either post without the personal jabs or we'll be discussing this in the Unban Request forum.
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  22. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 5
    welllll foxes exist and their are radiation sick dogs in the phasma novel that are kind of like wolves but with boils.
    Last edited by oncafar, Sep 13, 2017
  23. themoth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2015
    star 4
    I like that. Someone ancient and important.
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  24. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    Re: creative writing, I agree that you're uniquely qualified on the subject. Though IMO, as a film buff, I think film is far, far more than the written word. Indeed, some of the best cinema plays mostly with the visual language of the medium to tell its story, even to the point of scriptlessness (Malick and Kubrick are good examples). I've often felt that too many filmmakers treat films as merely filmed plays, or filmed books, and forget (or are unable to) utilize all the tools and materials of visual storytelling. So in short, a good script can very often bolster a film. But it's not necessarily the most important element of film.

    That said, yeah, I'll take your perspective on good character writing over that of most entitled fans sitting in their character camps. :)
    Last edited by Gigoran Monk, Sep 13, 2017
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  25. Darth Smurf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2015
    star 4
    I think I know now who Snoke is:

    [IMG]
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