ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

someone needs to dig up old TFA speculation and see if most got that right, then again there was lots of spoiler info that was fairly accurate. At this point before TFA most could find pretty solid spoilers about the film, this time around..dry

 

jedi. you can't be a jedi and be gray. gray jedi is an oxymoron. i don't imagine my idea would turn the jedi gray at all. why would they want to be on something other than the good side? it would simply aid those who find themselves caught in the middle and show them another way, other than having to go to one extreme or the other, which keeping them off the dark side extreme would do everyone in the galaxy a favor. these people wouldn't necessarily be jedi if they cannot be light enough, but at least they will not go full dark. and i think most would come back to the good side anyway (or never fall in the first place). basically i'm trying to think of a way to loosen the extreme divide between sith and jedi. it's like if you can't succeed as a jedi then you gotta be a sith. and the jedi thought this divide was working for a thousand years but the dark side doesn't go away and force users who are more attuned to it don't go away and the jedi lost sight it seems of what was going on. anyway i don't know how to make it all work exactly (that would be the job of the people making the films who likely will not do what i'm pondering anyway?)

i mean if what i was saying happened it would mean rey kills snoke at the end of VIII using the dark side and the act turns her. probably the FO would split up with rey ruling one half and hux ruling the other and they would be fighting one another. this would create conflict, yes. but where does the resistance fit in? we need a conflict still in IX and we need the resistance to play an important role. i suppose you could fix this by having hux in charge of the majority of the FO. but if rey, kylo and the resistance are basically on the same side in the fight, then tension is lost...

 

I was thinking, when Snoke’s torturing Rey, what could be the chance that he’s pulling a Cad Bane trick where the master will sense his apprentice in pain and come to her? Or perhaps he does it to punish her or maybe it’s his way of showing her that she should be scared of him after she bravely tells him “I’m not afraid of you.”

 

I'm guessing it could be extracting information from her. Kylo struggled to do that in TFA. Snoke has a lot more power to do it.

 

I do believe Kylo and Rey will join forces to overthrow Snoke as both characters have elements of 'grey' - good and bad - in them.
However I don't think the clip in the trailer is of Kylo extending his hand to Rey ... I think that will be to Leia, who will probably be dying in a pile of rubble at that point. Or something.

 

Hard to say how they will handle his background but I don't think something like one of the really old Jedi becoming an old type Sith when there were quite a few of them and then having whatever happened to him leading him away from that would mess with any continuity if he hasn't considered himself a Sith for ages and the Sith even changed to the Banite rule after he left. If he was a Jedi originally and is ancient they could just avoid the Sith designation entirely I guess and just say he went dark but I have a feeling that Malachor stuff in canon now might somehow relate to Snoke.

 

Yep. Lots of misdirection in the trailer. They’ve shown us footage but without true context, which is a nice trade off. Mystery still remains.

 

It’s amazing how many here don’t let go of their attachments,

Nothing personal. I always enjoy your posts, but on this I don’t agree.

 

i don't let go of my attachments. i'm just... not enlightened.

 

The "Jedi Prophecy" doesn't say the Sith would be destroyed forever. Nor is it clear how many Sith the prophecy is actually referring to. It could be referring to Palpatine and Vader only. Prophesies can be open for interpretation. As Yoda says: "Cloudy, the future is".

 

No. The Jedi prophecy did say the Sith would be destroyed forever. That’s what destroy the Sith means. If you’re a non-native speaker of English—I teach English in Japan—I can understand the mistake. I also taught English in America and refuse to do that again. And though Lucas changed his mind frequently and continuity had to be be retconned, Darth Talon became Talon. The Sith are no more as Lucas has directly stated and J.J. indirectly asserted.

 

Uh. Yes I know English. And no, the prophecy does not say the Sith would be destroyed forever. Of course if the prophecy is referring to Palpatine and Vader, forever would make sense. But if the prophecy is referring to the Sith Order, as a whole, then it could come back. The Sith is an idea/religion. You can kill an idea/belief.

 

No. Neither “sophistry” nor “casuistry” are inherently pejorative terms, but “sophist casuistry” isn’t a good description.

 

Yes.

 

I think the more fundamental problem with a Sith return is that it makes Anakin's sacrifice look much smaller. If he destroyed the Sith Order for good, and they were one of the worst darkside groups that ever existed, then that's a big accomplishment. Just destroying them for a brief moment of galactic time really makes his role as the Chosen One seem absurd.

And while it's true that some ideas never die, knowledge can be lost forever. Palpatine likely had his most secret knowledge hidden. That way Vader and others who might want it wouldn't be able to learn all he knew. So destroying Palpatine very well could also lead to the permanent loss of the Sith Order, if most of their important knowledge died with him.

And since we know other darkside groups have existed beyond the Sith, there's really no story problem in just making Snoke different in some way, and the Knights of Ren too.

I really don't see a great need or good reason to bring the Sith back.

 

Unfortunately, all the stupid Snoke theories that Johnson and Hidalgo debunked show just the opposite of what Zeroh and company think they have—imagination. And reasoning ability. And Anakin/Vader would be seriously weakened if the Sith return, as you claim. That said, when Lucas talked about a trilogy of trilogies in the 1980s, I doubt he saw Anakin as the Chosen One of the Proohecy to bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith. So, when I heard of Disney wanting to make the sequel trilogy based upon GL’s ideas I was concerned about the continuity. And it seemed GL had boxed himself into a corner. Is Anakin the Chosen One and why is the Force out of balance or asleep?

In the first draft of ROTJ, Yoda’s ghost materialized to defeat Palpatine and Vader. Will we see Anakin materialized to defeat Snoke and Ren?

 

I doubt it, but this probably shouldn't turn into a conversation about Anakin appearing. I will say that will all the emphasis on Rey being special, I don't see any room for Anakin to save the day.

If anyone helps her defeat Snoke and Kylo, I would hope it's Luke.

 

One hope I have for Snoke is that he isn’t like Palpatine where he always wants the next best thing in apprentices. He had Maul but got cut in half. He has Dooku but soon as he sees Anakin’s abilities, he decides to do away with him. He has Vader but wants to do away with him when sees Luke.

 

I agree. And I’m glad changes were made to the ROTJ script. I guess it’s a safe bet that Snoke’ll die in IX. Maybe Ren too. If so, will the Force be OK? Hard to believe that the dark side will ever cease to reassert itself. Specifically, that there are more dark siders. But I still hope that after 9 it’s quits for the Saga to avoid repetitiveness. I mean, if good guys and bad continually fight, with each successive generation more powerful, not to mention new, more powerful mere mortals and ships, weapons, then SW will get old.

 

Well, I wouldn't let the conservative approach we've seen so far make you think that they couldn't continue the Saga in an interesting way. What they need is a new George Lucas. LFL may have a story group, but they're proven to be much much too safe in their approach. I was hoping Rian Johnson would change things up, but I think we'll only see some visual flair from him. His theme of raw power is about as cliche and dull as you can get.

What we need is someone who can build a world. Then we could have all types of interesting darksiders and begin to leave this overly general approach behind. But as long as these films are making money, I think they'll stick with the conservative storytelling.

Even that could work, I guess, with a real world builder. So far the ST is really a dull story. There are a few aspects with potential, the characters mainly, but whether or not they'll reach it is anyone's guess.

Snoke, I expect, except for his powerful Force ability, will end up being pretty much what he seems to be: a dull imitation of Palpatine. I'm still holding out hope for an interesting difference here, but I currently have little faith in LFL and Rian Johnson.

 

I hope we end with IX. No X and do in.

But I would like to see very ancient prequels—the first jedi and Sith. Including TV, whether relatively recent like Underworld or ancient stuff too. I wonder how far back a a Toda would go.

I hope VIII is as weird as Bieya claimed.

My impression is Luke and Rey don’t have a serious, permanent fallout, Ren remains Snoke’s boy, etc. I hope the Resistance win in VIII. It’ll be interesting if both Luke and Leia die.

As for Snoke, he'llbe interesting not so much because of raw power but developed powers, ideology, dialogue, endgame. Maybe cruelty as well. But I’m sure he is lawful evil like the Sith, hence the First Order. But while I can see why Hux is a fanatic thanks to Empire’s End, I wonder why Ren is a fanatic. What does Snoke inspire in the First Order?

 

Yep we probably wont find out about Snoke's history with apprentices until well after the ST. My guess would be he didn't have one at the time he was found by the remnants of the Empire.

 

Would it change anyone's thoughts on Snoke if we were to find out now that Episode 9 was in fact the end of the Saga?

 

And yet another group of Dark Side, Force using Sith copy cats, called "The Knights of Ren" show up. Yeah, I would say this is just as absurd as bringing the Sith back. The prophecy could simply be referring to Palpatine; the Sith who devised the destruction of the Jedi, as well as the creation of the Empire. Destroying Palpatine/Vader, is still a huge accomplishment for Anakin; even if the Sith came back thirty two years later.

And there is this. Snoke actually calls Kylo Ren "the leader of the Knights of Ren" in TFA. If that is true, then Snoke is clearly not a Knight of Ren; since Snoke is of course Kylo Ren's Master.

 

Andy Serkis: "I actually shot a lot of what I was doing in Star Wars the few weeks leading up to me directing Breathe, so there was one rehearsal period where I literally came off set from Star Wars and had to cross through my trailer back into the production office. The approach to [portraying Snoke] was very much that this is someone who’s incredibly damaged. There’s a rage and a hatred that comes out of who he is and why he is. That character was a dark one to climb inside. It’s the antithesis of making something like this, which is just so life-affirming." (October 20, 2017)