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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by dlbates, Dec 20, 2015.

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  1. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Mike Zeroh says Snoke has a Master called Ren.
    In Zeroh we trust....
     
  2. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I adore the fact that both Luke and Sidious fell victim to what they accused the other of.
    "Your overconfidence is your weakness" and then, despite his confidence that he could appeal to Anakin's goodness, Luke still ends up having to fight his father, being provoked to give in to the Dark Side and being fried nearly to death before Sidious' "faith in your friends" did, in fact, turn out to be his weakness as the fella standing beside him turned on him and chucked him down a well.
     
  3. RexTano

    RexTano Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2017
    I don't buy the whole SW notion that being angry or even giving in to it sometimes makes one a bad or even evil person. It's part of being human, or in the SW universe, an advanced sentient being. What makes one bad or evil isn't being angry from time to time or even giving in to it, but the extent and way in which one gives in to it, and allows oneself to be controlled by it.

    What makes one evil is being unable or unwilling to control one's anger, not having or sometimes giving in to it in itself. I think that that was one of either Lucas's original conceits, or, more likely, the Jedi's conceit that to a large extent doomed them. Had they understood this, that anger was a natural emotion that should be respected, occasionally indulged in, and most of all controlled, rather than rejected outright, they might have caught onto the Sith in time, and prevented their fall at their hands.

    I think that this more nuanced and organic understanding of anger and other "dark side" emotions like fear, confusion, even ambition, envy and hate, lies at the core of Luke's transformation into what some have come to call a "Grey Jedi", something that other force-sensitive beings figured out long prior, like the Bendu, Vos, Barris or even Ahsoka (if she really survived that fight with Vader and didn't meet her "doooooom"), and at the core of the ST. If the OT was about the return of the Jedi, and the PT was about the revenge of the Sith, then perhaps the ST is about the meeting and merging of the two--but in a "good" way.

    You can either ignore a potential problem and let it fester and possibly destroy you, or you can acknowledge and master it. If he hasn't already, Luke's probably about to figure this out. And from the other direction, so will Snoke.

    Btw, while Sidious did succumb to his overconfidence, in Vader, his own powers and the DS2, and the grand strategy he developed to defend it and destroy the rebellion at last, Luke's faith in his friends was not at all misplaced, given that without their two-pronged strategy for taking down the DS2, he may not have made it out of there alive. He was a Jedi, sure, but weakened by Sidious' force lightning, and even the best of Jedi would have had a hard time escaping a DS2 that hadn't been subjected to assault due to its defensive shield still being operational. The conclusion of ROTJ was due to three things going right for the rebellion, of which Luke's part was but one. And even that depended on his new "friend", Vader.
     
  4. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Does the idea of Johnson's non-Skywalker trilogy make anyone (who didnt before) feel like the ST will be the end of the Skywalker Saga? And if so, does that make you feel any differently about Snoke's newness?
     
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  5. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    I accept Snoke is new because that's what it seems people like PH have been trying to tell us. I see no reason for them to lie about this.

    But it is interesting that the new trilogy will explore a *new* region of the galaxy. I think it might be the UR, where Snoke possibly comes from.

    I don't necessarily think that it's the end of the Skywalker saga. I just think that if you wrap up one Skywalker trilogy and immediate start another one it starts to make the Skywalker saga into something less special. Rather than being generational, it's like always happening. Then it becomes a norm. And people will just get tired of it.

    So I guess I don't think the new trilogy says anything about if the Skywalker saga will end or not.
     
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  6. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    Well the Jedi kept things pretty decent for a very long time by forcing their members to live like monks and to strictly control certain emotions and not give in to them. All that we know from canon right now is there was a battle between a bunch of jedi and sith at Malachor thousands of years ago and that the Sith stayed pretty low key undetected by the Jedi since Yoda's time.

    I think it would be kind of a weak argument that it was a bad plan when you had so few Jedi Masters (20) either turn to the darkside or go "grey" under those rules considering there were thousands of Jedi in the Galaxy at least in more recent times. I think the darkside growing in power just blinded them to who Palpatine actually was and the plan he was putting into place to destroy them. They were definitely making it a point to try to find the other Sith Lord once Darth Maul revealed himself to them. I will admit however Obi Wan acted pretty arrogant when Dooku told him that stuff about a Sith Lord being in league with other Senators.

    Now having said that it won't surprise me if the movies go in the direction that the Jedi being so rigid then (more than the original Jedi) is what led to the chosen one himself falling to the darkside when the threat could have been ended by Mace Windu if not for his intervention.
     
  7. RexTano

    RexTano Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2017
    That may be the official backstory but I don't buy it. I mean, it doesn't make any sense that in a thousand years the Sith successfully kept up the Rule of Two line of succession (by apprentice killing off dear master no less) and in all that time only one totally brilliant and evil Sith lord was finally able to break out of this pattern, destroy the entire Jedi order and Republic and kill off all but a handful of Jedi, install himself as emperor, and rule the galaxy with near-total control. Was that the plan all along, and if so were the Sith that disciplined and patient, each Master biding his time and knowing his ultimate fate and that it was all leading to one great Sith "chosen one" to finally turn things around--especially given how arrogant, selfish and power-hungry the Sith were? Something doesn't feel right about that. Plus, in all that time no Jedi were onto the Sith succession? Were the Sith hiding out somewhere until fairly recently, perhaps beyond the unknown regions that Palpatine felt a dark calling come from?

    Anyway, the idea that for a thousand years both sides could do its thing with the Sith being aware of the Jedi but not vice-versa, and nothing really changed, and the Sith just bid their time for centuries, and all of a sudden one Sith turned it all around within the span of some 15 or so years? Yeah, not buying it. Something changed to make it possible for Palpatine to do what he did. Something hinted at in the PT by Yoda IIRC that Jedi had become arrogant, i.e. full of themselves and overconfident and not paying enough attention to what was going on around them. I think that Qui-Gon also said some things to the effect that the Jedi had become too rigid and overly focused on the eternal force rather than the life force.

    So, in a sense we're both right, that for centuries the Jedi way worked well and kept the galaxy safe and the Sith dared not try anything, but then something happened, either gradually or suddenly, to make the Jedi lose focus and effectiveness, which the Sith sensed and exploited. That's the only way I see it make sense that a single Sith could turn it all upside down in less than a generation. But, what DID happen, that allowed this to happen? That's largely unexplored, except through hints and comments sprinkled here and there in both trilogies and elsewhere (stories, rumors...). And it would make a great basis for either the next trilogy, the live action series, or the new animated series, the subjects of which are as yet unannounced (and, also, hinted at...).

    My guess is that, while I don't know why and how it happened, the Jedi basically became arrogant and full of themselves and too caught up in doctrine and formal process, and less and less mindful of the real world around them. Their reluctance to indulge even just a little bit in some dark side emotions also blinded them to far worse manifestations of such emotions. It's like they walled themselves off from actual reality and said "This is how things should be therefore this is how things ARE", and in so doing doomed themselves. If you don't tap into some of these darker emotions, you'll be unprepared for when others use them against you. It's a form of emotional and spiritual inoculation that the Jedi rejected, to their great regret.

    I think that a few Jedi realized this much too late, and that Luke has finally come to this realization, and that this is what he meant with that "Jedi must end" line. Perhaps he really meant it, in a petulant and angry moment. Perhaps it's Rey's job to rein that emotion in (ironically, also a dark side emotion, but one he's indulged in too long) and bring him back to the light, and both can come up with some sort of "New Jedi" order that's more reality-based and less idealistic. They probably have to, to defeat the wily Snoke, who's probably figured this out already.
     
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  8. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    My "theory" on what happened is that the Sith couldn't take control until the time of Sidious. They had been working on corrupting things for 1000 years (or however long it was), trying to tip the balance towards the Dark Side, but carefully and with subtlety. And they never lost their connection with the Force.

    One possible consequence of their insidious work is that the Jedi allowed themselves to become increasingly wed to the politics of the New Republic. As the centuries went on they started losing their connection with the Force and its mysterious "will" in favor of their rules and doing the "good" asked of them by the New Republic. So they started falling out of alignment with the will of the Force.

    And the more that happened, the more the Sith could gain a stronger hold on the Force and its balance.

    Anyway eventually a threshold was reached, and surpassed. Sidious found himself at the pinnacle of all of the long hard work of the Sith over the centuries. He was in the prime position to seize control. His power was likely greater than most of the Sith before him. And he finally pulled the rug out from under the Jedi when the time was right.

    So in short, every generation the Sith gained hold on the balance, and the Jedi lost hold. The more the Sith succeeded in tipping the balance further towards the Dark, the more the Jedi faltered. It became a vicious cycle. It began to accelerate. And by TPM the Jedi are disoriented in the Force. They can see the Darkness is clouding things (the Force is out of balance) but because it is, they can't see clearly anymore. They follow the direction the New Republic government takes, thinking that it must be furthering justice (when they can't see in the Force if it is or not, or what they should do), not knowing with each step they were deeper in the spider's web.
     
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  9. The Scavenger

    The Scavenger Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2017
    It seems Snoke is going to test Rey according to Daisy and she adds the screaming she did hurt her.

    Snoke will provide the worst kind of 'test' for Rey.

    Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis) ain't pretty and acts worse. "He looks mental. Snoke is an evil guy, if you can call him a guy," says Ridley.

    Last Jedi's trailer shows Rey screaming under Snoke torture. Ridley says the torture scenes were long enough to leave her hoarse. "It was painful. My throat hurt after that one," says Ridley.
    "Snoke is one of those tests for Rey," she adds. "And when I say testing, it's the worst use of testing ever."
     
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  10. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    Yikes. I hope DR didn't damage her voice. I knew someone who permanently damaged her voice screaming at a game in the cold night air.
     
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  11. The Scavenger

    The Scavenger Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2017
    My voice actor friend Brian Dobson had to get an operation after screaming a lot as a character in a cartoon.
     
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  12. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    The Scavenger That's terrible. I'm probably going to notice screaming in TV/film now. I hope this sort of thing isn't common for actors--that people are usually careful in directing them, so as not to cause that kind of harm.
     
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  13. The Scavenger

    The Scavenger Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Could be like Emma Watson in HP when she's tortured. Just a one time thing since Daisy's vocals would not be used to it.

    Now my question is, why is Snoke testing her? Is it not Kylo and Rey he is telling to fulfill their destiny possibly? Could she be related to someone who had their destiny interrupted and now she must finish what was started? The EW article said she will learn who she is, but it should not change who she will become. She must not repeat history.
     
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  14. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    I think it could be as simple as Palpatine being the first Sith willing to play politician for all those years and to do it right under the watch of the Jedi. Who would ever expect a Banite Sith to be that bold or that patient for that matter based on what they probably knew of the Sith in ancient times. I guess the darkside's power rising with him was part of it also like you say. Not sure if it was from anything Canon now but I think I remember reading that some of the Jedi Masters actually suspected Mas Amedda for a while as being the Sith Lord they were looking for and they just thought Palpatine was shady and being influenced by him.

    Anybody here have any thoughts on this project resurrection stuff mentioned in the video game? Any slight chance that could be Snoke related (one of the considered looks for him originally was my avatar which is an undead looking snake man that looks like it literally came out of the grave)? I see the video game also reveals how Kylo Ren found out who had the map to Luke.
     
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  15. The Scavenger

    The Scavenger Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Knowing that the game is canon to the movie and the compass will make an appearance in it, I am strongly starting to think Rey is someone connected to Palpatine.
     
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  16. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015

    What about the theory Del is her father? What makes you think Palpatine is connected?
     
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  17. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Me too. I started feeling that way after Adam Driver’s slip up a few weeks ago.
     
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  18. The Scavenger

    The Scavenger Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2017
    He's not. They have a daughter named Zay. She'll be in the DLC.

    It seems to be going that way. Rey's blood seems to be surrounded by darkness. She had a voice (assumed to be Snoke) telling her to kill Kylo. History is repeating (Anakin and Palpatine) but this time the Skywalker is already dark. Just a weird feeling I keep getting lately with all this new stuff about him, and Snoke's interest in Rey that Daisy confirms is a test. Plus the "fulfill your destiny" line is being used for Rey in promotion. Now she's shrouded in blood red.
     
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  19. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    Interesting - I am not sure what I think on that right now. The voice I always guessed was Snoke himself putting the thought in her head figuring she had more potential than Kylo possibly. Its almost like with how he reacts to finding out she resisted Kylo that Snoke knew she would making an appearance eventually.
     
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  20. The Scavenger

    The Scavenger Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 22, 2017
    Yeah and I bet whatever that block in her mind was that Kylo could not open will probably be opened by Snoke and we might learn why she is so powerful. Personally I think Snoke is done with Kylo and by the end of TLJ he'll be interested in Rey.
     
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  21. RexTano

    RexTano Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 1, 2017
    Perhaps others better versed in all the minutiae of SW canon than myself know otherwise (although having seen all the films multiple times, read all the canon books and most of the comics, seen all the shows, etc., I'd know a thing or two), but I don't think we know enough about the events prior to TPM to be able to know if the Jedi and Republic's decline and Sith's ascension was really that gradual and deliberately orchestrated by the Sith, or if it only began relatively recently, say in the 50-100 years prior to TPM. I'm guessing the latter, that something happened to change the balance of things, in the Republic, within the Jedi, and between the two. Something we don't know much about, if at all, beyond a few hints. I'm also guessing that this will be the subject of at least one of the major works to be released within the next few years. We're going backwards again, not forward. We have to, to better complete our understanding of the chronology and overall force-related phenomena.

    We'll also find out what role if any Snoke played in all this. Snoke = Snake?
     
  22. RexTano

    RexTano Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2017
    I took a voice technique class in college where among other things they taught us how to warm up our voices before a performance with all these voice exercises, as well as how to project our voices so they could be heard far away by a lot of people without amplification and without hurting our vocal cords or throats excessively.

    The latter comes down to what's known as "belly breathing", or expanding the diaphragm, the muscle just below the lungs that separates them from the abdominal area, when one breaths in, then pushing it up and the air out our lungs when speaking (or singing). It's also how you're supposed to breath when exercising, to get maximal O2 in our blood.

    A lot of people "throat breath", which is actually bad for your vocal cords and limits how far your voice carries (not to mention is annoying to hear). Perhaps that's what Ridley did when she screamed, even though I'm sure she was taught proper breathing technique in acting school. Lying down when screaming and doing repeated takes doesn't help, of course.

    Not warming up before screaming, throat breathing, and screaming continually, in cold air no less, is a sure way to damage one's vocal cords. I bet they teach you all this in the military, too. I can't HEAR you! ;-)
     
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  23. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
     
  24. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    RexTano Snoke = snake is very probably true. Check out the golden snake skin robe.

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Ridley discusses Rey’s test from Snoke..

    “He looks mental. Snoke is an evil guy, if you can call him a guy,” says Ridley.
    Last Jedi’s trailer shows Rey screaming under Snoke torture. Ridley says the torture scenes were long enough to leave her hoarse. “It was painful. My throat hurt after that one,” says Ridley.
    “Snoke is one of those tests for Rey,” she adds. “And when I say testing, it’s the worst use of testing ever.”