ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Maz also goes by the name Orangina.

 

I think Snoke has something to do with the Whills.

 

Maybe Snoke is a Whill? That last of them, the one that turned on them for the dark side, giving rise to his acolytes who eventually became the Sith?

Those who stayed faithful to the good Whills became Jedi.

After the Jedi and Sith split and battled, the Jedi fled in secret to Ahch-To and built the first Jedi Temple there.

Maybe one of the books in that tree library on Ahch-To is the Journal of the Whills, and Snoke was one of the authors, but having split from the Jedi before the founding of the Temple there, he has no idea where the Jedi Temple/Luke is...

If Snoke is a Whill and wrote the early texts that some of the Jedi followed before turning evil, that would be a good reason for Luke to seek out the temple and the journal for answers to how to stop Snoke.

 

The official description of the last conflict between the Jedi and Sith orders sounds like a war of faiths, rather than a simple power struggle. Perhaps Snoke is connected to this?

"During the height of the Galactic Republic, the specter of widespread warfare had been forgotten. A full-scale war had not rocked the galaxy in centuries. The last great conflict, having been waged for the soul of civilization itself, was a decisive war fought between the Jedi Order and the Sith Lords. The Republic victory was so definitive that it reinvented itself, resettling its capital on Coruscant after a devastating ouster. History reset its chrono on this date, and from that moment, the modern Galactic Republic was born. Societal memories and official calenders started fresh, and the time before this rebirth was forgotten as a dark age, lumped into a collective whole known as the 'Old Republic.'"

 

I find it hard to take a bad guy seriously that wears bedazzled Gold slippers. Is Snoke powerful? um I guess so, but I wonder how many people he's killed literally dying laughing at his outfits.

Edit:

What if Snoke is something like 'Abeloth'? Only Palpatine felt him because he was fully engrossed in the the Dark Side and Vader still had some good in him-clearly? I know they are taking bits and pieces out of the EU but what if snoke, like Abeloth was once a caretaker of The One's, stole some Dragon Ball Z super bean and was instantly made a quasi-deity. He is trapped eons and eons ago, but perhaps Anakin killing The One's weakened his prison, allowing him to reach out to those in the Dark Side?

 

My thought is that Snoke has something to do with Palpatine.

They have been sprinkling references to the Unknown Regions across different tales. And Palpatine was preoccupied with the Unknown Regions.

Something that doesn’t make sense to me is Palpatine’s contingency. At least not at face value.

In the films he was a hands off Emperor, totally uninvolved until becoming aware of Luke. Like was the threat he saw that could potentially destroy him. And in the novels and comics the Sith tendency of betrayal is also touched upon.

But with the contingency, upon being killed, Palpatine’s course of action is to destroy the Empire? Not only that but the contingency doesn’t touch upon what to do about the two most likely causes of Palpatine’s death (A Jedi or Vader).

The concept of legacy is big in Star Wars. The Sith and the Empire are Palpatine’s.

Also, the Sith are preoccupied with holding onto power. To die is to be a failure. To leave nothing behind, no legacy, seems even worse. We see Maul in Rebels seeking, in his increased age, to take on an apprentice and pass on what he knows.

That Palpatine would spend so much time preoccupied with destroying his own legacy after his own death seems completely out of character imo when it comes to an overconfident person consumed with a lust for power.

One thing I also don’t quite understand about the contingency (never read Aftermath) is whether or not having Rax flee to the Unknown Regions was part of the Contingency or if he was supposed to go down with the Empire but decided not to.

In Legends, the Sith were preoccupied with legacy, even appearing after death to try to pass on knowledge. And while Sith spirits are no longer canon, I think the sentiment is still the same. Sith were preoccupied with taking apprentices and passing on knowledge.

In the event of a Jedi killing Palpatine and destroying the Sith, passing on Sith teachings to have vengeance seems more in character to me than destroying his own legacy.

Palpatine believed the source of the Dark Side lay in the Unknown Regions. The Imperial Remnant fled there following the Battle of Jakku and re-emerged under Snoke as the First Order. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

Perhaps Palpatine sensed Snoke and thought such a being was the only one worthy to succeed him and the Contingency was only meant to purge all but the most loyal officers.

Palpatine’s master was strong enough with the Dark Side to save others from death, but not strong enough to achieve immortality. Perhaps Palpatine thought that whatever he sensed in the Unknown Regions was his best shot at achieving immortality. There is mention of a “Project Resurrection” and the first Vader comic shows that resurrection is possible as Cyclo was able to be resurrected in clone bodies upon being killed.

Perhaps Snoke will be the Saruman to Palpatines Sauron. Snoke does demonstrate knowledge of Vader’s redemption in the TFA novelization, when only Luke, Palpatine, and Vader himself witnessed it. Snoke even alludes to historians being completely oblivious to how the Empire fell. Perhaps he saw these events from afar (“things you will see, different places”).

Regardless, there are different potential angles to a Palpatine-Snoke connection, but I definitely feel there is a connection.

He’s not just some guy that showed up and tried to topple the Empire. He had been interested in Ben Solo for some time before he fell. He seems to have intimate knowledge about what happened to Palpatine. Palpatine had great interest in something in the Unknown Regions. And superficially the Contingency seems to go against everything one would think Palpatine would want, unless he knowingly was trying to hand the reigns over to that power he sensed and left it with a clean slate


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I am curious what that project resurrection stuff turns out being and why it could jump from one planet to another.

Not 100% sure but I think Rax was supposed to go down with everything else but he changed it to destroying the remnants of the Empire and a few select people including himself going to the unknown regions after destroying Jakku. Sloane ended up changing that plan.

 

From what I remember, the explanation as to why Palpatine wanted the Empire destroyed was that he believed an Empire that fails to protect its Emperor does not deserve to exist. Though that is what Palpatine told Rax and doesn't necessarily mean it was his true belief. In fact, by the time of Aftermath, Palpatine had already established facilities and bases in the Unknown Regions. So even after the Empire's defeat at Jakku, there would still be remnants.

As for Rax, its not so clear whether Palpatine actually intended him to die on Jakku. In the Observatory, Palpatine left Rax a reminder of his place in the grand scheme of things. Palpatine had taught Rax how to play an old game called Shah-tezh which is like our Chess. Palpatine likened the pieces to those in the galaxy. There was the Imperator (Emperor), Knight, Vizier, Disciple, Dowager, Counselor, Outcast, Craft, and Beast. Rax had always thought he was the Counselor. At the observatory, Palpatine had left a piece from the game and it was the Outcast. This actually ended up pissing Rax off. Was that the desired effect? Ultimately Rax planned on destroying the Imperial fleet and head to the Unknown Regions. He just didn't make it. But it's hard believe Palpatine didn't know what that message would mean to Rax. So either he intended it to change his actions or he knew Rax was doomed beforehand and left the reminder anyways.

In regards to the other pieces though, it's a mystery as to who Palpatine considered to be their representatives. One could guess that the Knight was Vader and the Vizier was Mas Amedda. The Beast could have been Stormtroopers and the Craft the Imperial fleet. The Counselor could have been Tarkin and the Disciple maybe Yupe Tashu? But what about the Dowager? If Sloane is the Dowager, then did Palpatine foresee her importance after his death?

One other thing of note that I remember is that Yupe Tashu, before Rax threw him into the abyss, believed they were on the path to making Palpatine flesh again. As if there was some way via the Sith artifacts and Observatories to accomplish this task. So maybe Project Resurrection has something to do with that.



But having said all of that, its probably just filler stuff that has no baring on the future films. Or if some details does, it's their way of saying that Palpatine was on his way to accomplishing it before he was killed. Though who knows with this Skywalker saga. I'll just end with this snippet of Palpatine's ultimate goals in the Tarkin novel.

"...he would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many of the Sith Masters before him had sought: the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort.."

 

I am still wondering about that rumour that was mentioned in that youtube video some time ago where snoke is an ancient sith from the old republic kept alive by draining the life force out of force users.

 

He may just be making mess up about being told that but I wouldn't totally rule out Snoke's basic background being something like that. Ancient darksider that somehow has found a way to unnaturally extend his life.

 

I would have said the same thing initially, but now I’m second guessing that belief given teasing from the Story Group that there are deliberate nuggets of what lies ahead hidden in the canon that may not pay off for a long time.

The Contingency/Unknown Regions/Palpatine subplot may not payoff in the films, as Pablo and Rian have suggested that we won’t get all the answers about Snoke in TLJ, and Pablo has suggested that his backstory might be told in some other medium other than a saga film, but I’d be surprised if there’s not ultimately some link established between what Palpatine senses in the Unknown Regions and Snoke.

As for the Contingency: based on your summary, my first inclination is to think that Palpatine manipulated Rax into pursuing a course of action that Palpatine wanted.

Based on Palpatine’s ego and how methodical he was in manipulating Anakin, and his strategies, self destructing the Empire seems uncharacteristically pessimistic (as it means he planned for his own failure and clears opposition to the heroes).

I would hope the destruction of the Empire was a means to an end, not the end itself. It’s (superficially) too self defeating. It’s not like he’s destroying the entire Galaxy in the wake of his death, only his own military faction, which on the surface would benefit the Jedi and any that opposed him.

E.G. perhaps Palpatine thought only a dark sided was worthy of ruling the galaxy and so he had the various warlords of the Empire eliminated via the Contingency so that the Dark Force he sensed from the Unknown Regions could invade unopposed.



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So I wonder if Project Resurrection is to bring Palpatine back to life. I mean, in Legends he cloned himself. In the new Canon he did't do that, perhaps he was overconfident in his power. Maybe Snoke wants to bring him back for some sinister plot.

 

I agree that it’s probably just filler.

As far as the quote about reshaping reality, what does that even mean? It’s really just obsessive madness of the sort that ultimately destroys the subject.


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Maybe if Snoke is a Whill he can be evil but not just a darksider. He may believe there has to be a dark and a lightside but wants to control both. "Darkness rises and light to meet it". He may want to control the galaxy because he feels its his inherent right as a Whill.

 

I am curious as to where they are going with the whole light side/Dark Side thing. As the TFA novelization and a couple other sources suggest that Kylo Ren being of both the light and Dark Side is something that made Snoke drawn to him.

In contrast to Palpatine who was all about the Dark Side and wanted Vader to completely abandon the light Side.

In rewatching TFA I also find it odd that despite a lot of fan theories that Luke damaged Snoke and that Snoke fears that Luke could destroy him, I don’t really get that impression.

Snoke never voices any concerns about Luke returning to destroy him, he’s afraid of Luke training Jedi. Snoke was just as content having BB-8 destroyed and leaving Luke’s whereabouts a mystery, while it’s Kylo that disregards the order to destroy BB8 and threatens Hux by insisting it be captured.

Snoke seems content to keep Luke contained and feels more worried about the spread of Jedi ideology than of any power Luke himself possesses.


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It seems to me that Snoke wants to continue the conflict between light and dark. It gives him the advantage as the light rising provides more opportunity for conflict and fertile ground for temptation and future darksiders. Also, Snoke is fearful of the rising of the “new Jedi”. Is that different from the old? Perhaps similar to a reformed church? TFA is really a race to Luke. Who will get their first? Snoke would probably like to just obliterate Ahch-To, Luke and the whole first Jedi temple with it.

I’ve sort of made the crazy assumption that Luke went looking for the first Jedi temple for a reason. I’ve supposed he’s looking for answers. The order needs to get back to certain fundamentals. Back to the beginning. It’s time for the (old) Jedi to end and it’s time for the new Jedi (Bendu) to rise, or some such. It’s interesting to think that that line makes it look as the Luke’s motives are similar to Snoke’s, ending the Jedi. It’s also a curious duality: the First Order and the First Jedi Temple. It’s like everyone’s getting back to basics or square one in their respective orders.

Perhaps the quality of equal portions of light and dark in Kylo is a key to the ongoing plot, though I’m not certain I care for such a category or aspect in a character. Or, Kylo joined with Rey is some kind of key to a resurrection of someone or something, but that, too, seems a bit fetched.

Although the recent EW article said something a long the lines that Snoke likes pairs and this is why Hux is part of some dynamic with Kylo in Snoke’s paradigm. That might offer a clue....or not.

“Here’s another clue for you all,
The walrus was Paul....
Look into a Glass Onion.”


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I have a new Snoke theory that, as far as I know, has not been brought up before--if it has, I apologize in advance. Snoke's ring with the black gem is ancient and mystical, and it is a conduit of Dark Side voodoo-energy that sustains his life...unnaturally. It is a conduit, connecting the dense matter that is Snoke's corpse to the Dark Side autoclave with the swirly blue port. The thing is its unholy fire isn't simply fueled by Force-sensitives.

You see, in addition to him feeling disillusioned and that he failed with Kylo and is a burden to the GFFA, there's a more pressing, practical reason Luke has dropped everything and sequestered himself on Ahch-To, and its he same reason the turtle-lady Caretakers are still on Ahch-To--to protect the Whills, those mystical, mysterious beings whose Force-essences are what Snoke's Dark Side Voodoo Oven runs on. It's powered--and thus Snoke is kept alive--by the Whills.

Spoiler: PICTURE OF A WHILL

Save The Whills

 

Anthony Breznican for EW on Snoke in The Last Jedi

Some people absorb unspeakable pain, then vow to spend the rest of their lives working and fighting to make sure no one else has to suffer as they did. Others endure the same agony but deal with it by magnifying that pain — and blasting it back upon the world.

Supreme Leader Snoke is one of the latter.

The enigmatic ruler of the First Order finally emerges from the darkness in Star Wars: The Last Jedi, and actor Andy Serkis is revealing a little more about the villain’s origin and creation.

“This time you get to see him, as in his real presence,” says Serkis, who plays the towering Snoke via performance capture. “In the previous movie we saw him as this huge hologram and tele-presence, and you get to meet him in the flesh this time.”

Serkis describes a cruel master, a 9-foot-tall alien humanoid who disparages and dominates his two lieutenants: Kylo Ren (played by Adam Driver) and General Hux (Domhnall Gleeson.) He’s a predator who identifies weakness and exploits it, drawing the young and promising to his side with promises of power, then using and discarding his protégés when they are no longer of use.

He is seen here in hologram form in The Last Jedi, looking very Wizard of Oz as he bellows at Hux over some unspecified failure or disappointment. Serkis says much of that unhappiness will be directed at the former Ben Solo, however.

“His training of Kylo Ren is not yielding what he wants,” Serkis says. “Therefore his anger towards Kylo Ren is intensified because he can’t bear weakness in others. Part of the manipulation is goading him with Hux and playing them off against each other.”

Maybe the effect of that pairing has worn off, however. Snoke may need to start goading Kylo Ren with another disciple. (Watch yourself, Rey.)

Snoke has an abiding rage toward the Galactic Republic, which he devastated in The Force Awakens by annihilating its capital with a blast from Starkiller Base. And now that anger has shifted toward the wounded Republic’s military force — the Resistance.

“The thing about Snoke is that he is extremely strong with the Force, the dark side of the Force. He’s terribly powerful, of course. But he is also a very vulnerable and wounded character,” Serkis says. “He has suffered and he has suffered injury. The way that his malevolence comes out is in reaction to that. His hatred of the Resistance is fueled by what’s happened to him personally.”

The Last Jedi will reveal that the First Order is far stronger than anyone else in the galaxy realized. “Despite the fact that the Starkiller Base has been destroyed and the Resistance has been putting up a fight, we will discover that the First Order has limitless resources in this one,” Serkis says.

Exactly how Snoke suffered his deformity hasn’t yet been revealed, but we will learn more about it in this installment. At least, a little more.

“Similar to with Rey’s parentage, Snoke is here to serve a function in the story,” writer-director Rian Johnson says. “And, you know, a story is not a Wikipedia page.”

That means the film may not fill in all the blanks for the hardcore Snoke theorists.

“For example, in the original trilogy, we didn’t know anything about the Emperor except exactly what we needed to know, which is what Luke knew about him, that he’s the evil guy behind Vader,” Johnson says. “But then in the prequels, you knew everything about Palpatine because that his rise to power was the story. We’ll learn exactly as much about Snoke as we need to. But the really exciting for me is we will see more of him, and Andy Serkis will get to do much more in this film than he did in the last one, and that guy is just a force of nature.”

Since Snoke only appeared as a hologram in The Force Awakens, the performance by Serkis was mainly in the villain’s face (what’s left of it). Now that we’ll be in his actual presence, we get the full breadth of his movement — and his damage.

“You witness his physicality,” Serkis says. “His body is kind of twisted up like a corkscrew, and so he has limited movement. His aggression and his anger is contained and restricted by that physicality.”

After playing Gollum in The Lord of the Rings films, Serkis is used to knotting his body for a performance, or adjusting to a simian gait to play Caesar in the Planet of the Apesfilms. But for Snoke, he adds one piece of restraint to his own body.

“The only thing I did use was across his jaw,” Serkis says. “His jaw is completely mangled and the left side of his face is mauled. So I had a way of taping down the lefthand side of my mouth to restrict the lip movement on that side.”

Snoke’s shattered skull and open jaw were also inspired by something real from our own world. “His deformity is very much based on injuries from the First World War, from the trenches,” Serkis says.

In that conflict, modern war machines ripped and gnarled human bodies like never before, but lifesaving contemporary medicine ensured the survival of men who otherwise would have died on the battlefield. They lived on carrying damage previously seen only on corpses.

Perhaps because he does suffer so much, Snoke also makes a point to indulge in the comfort and riches that power bestows. Unlike Emperor Palpatine, who was draped in the relatively humble black robe of a Sith monk, Snoke wraps himself in the kind of shimmering gold usually seen in the palaces of dictators or Las Vegas entertainers.

Revenge is only part of his motivation; greed is another.

“Oh, absolutely. He’s slightly oligarch,” Serkis says. “You know, he’s not afraid of showing his fineries. There is a luxury that’s native to him.”

You can see it in his throne room, and his scarlet-armored Praetorian Guard. “The way that his court is presented, he’s very totalitarian in that way and flamboyant,” Serkis says. “He enjoys that theatricality, I think.”

 

Very interesting stuff in there. Reinforces my thinking him and the Jedi had a big battle sometime in the very distant past. Maybe a battle that included him and other darksiders against the Jedi. Trying to get a better feel for what his specific background is. We do know they did concepts of a snake man and an undead risen from the grave looking snake man before deciding on this look for him. Trying to think if that could possibly shed some light on what he actually is.

I agree Snoke is only really worried about a whole new Jedi order getting started up he isn't worried about Luke as in Luke's stronger than him with the force.

 

So did they change his height or was it a typo? They said before Snoke is 7ft tall, but now he's 9ft tall?

 

I like the idea of Snoke, by himself, fighting a battle with the entire Jedi Order. Whether he's a Whill, or just learnt great force power, they could only injure him badly and banish him to the unknown regions. He's waited for his return and the Empire finding a way out there gives him that chance.

Luke is protecting himself from harm by hiding, with Kylo turned, until Rey, he's the only one who could possibly defeat Snoke and he's searching for answers.

 

Interesting interview. Snoke sure is angry. If it's not his men failing him or a scavenger resisting them, it's apparently something to do with what the Republic did to him. I'm thinking this plays into how Leia seemed familiar with him in TFA. Somehow Luke, Leia, and the Republic took a journey, perhaps using specific coordinates and a compass, to wherever Snoke was in the Unknown Regions and had a confrontation.

He wanted to be God. It makes sense that the one Lucas and the story group viewed as evil incarnate would have limitless ambition.

Well the plan was to destroy both the Imperial and Republic fleets with essentially a massive explosion originating from the core of Jakku. So the galaxy would have been left in chaos. But as has been said, with what Sidious built in the Unknown Regions and felt regarding the dark side, it basically would have been an invitation for someone to fill the power vacuum. With the Emperor in the end letting Rax know that he's just the Outcast, it could be that Snoke is the true contingency plan.

 

If Snoke hates the New Republic was he someone personally effected by its rise? I thought he had a bone to pick with the Jedi, but he hates the Republic too. Was he part of the Imperial Empire? I was hoping he was something brand new.