ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Well again Snoke telling kylo hes not enough like Vader seems like it was purely to berate kylo because snoke knows how much Ben wants to be like him. It was more to torment him for his failures. But again just like everything else in this new trilogy its vge enough that it could be interpreted either way.

 

The Snoke throne room scene was excellent. But I agree, my word why on earth, Force above, did they not explain who Snoke was by now. We are 2 films in and still no story flow, or exposition.

TFA and TLJ should have shown flashbacks, had character interaction and explanation as to what happened after Episode VI. Snoke his origin, what he did to turn people, how the First Order came about.

And his motivations. The Plagueis or Windu thing actually made sense. But a random nobody who somehow miraculously does what Palpatine took decades to plan and execute when he was the most powerful dark sider to ever have lived??

The OT and PT had a great story arc, this just feels so random. Certainly I agree, we need more than 30 seconds. But at least 20 minutes of good exposition mixed in and spaced out over the course of TFA and TLJ would have been better than spending pointless screen time on Rathars and milking that .... thing in TLJ.

I mean at least make the Rathars into Rancors, then it would have been funnier. But exposition was severely lacking and I hope that they haven't ruined Star Wars because of it. It feels like right now we need not 3 sequels, but 12 sequels at the rate they are going to explain anything.

 

No Rancors, No Twi'leks, No Zabraks - why just everything has to be new(man)? What we need now is an Intermediate Trilogie (IT) which fills this gap. Chuck Wendig's "Aftermath"-trilogy is not filling something (except of Jar Jar and some Wedge Antilles), but is tearing up new construction places nobody needs.

 

I'm not even sure the TFA gave us anything new if I'm honest. But there has to be some exposition shown in the movies of which we had zero in TFA (the flashback was just asking questions, it gave no answers). In TLJ, we only saw a small amount of time dedicated to the burning of the new Jedi Temple. No answers for anything raised in TFA nor about intermediate period.

 

it's in the movie. It makes it clear Snoke wants another Vader by how he says it. It's part of his speech about what he saw in Kylo when he found him.

 

@oncafar: A new Vader, sure, but not l'art pour l'art. This new Vader was but an envoy of Snoke. Just like Vader was for Palpatine. Snoke wasn't building Kylo Ren up to worship him as his idol but as a tool!

 

Well of course. Snoke uses everyone. He wants to possess the new Vader and have him at his disposal.

 

Snoke could be explained as simply as the following:

When Luke tells Rey about what happened with Kylo and how Snoke had already gotten to him, have him add the following line:

"When those wishing for power after the Empire's collapses came across Snoke in the outer regions, he was thirsting for centuries for someone to be his new apprentice. Targeting someone with Skywalker blood was a prized bonus for Snoke. It was his chance to reclaim and rule with the dark side."

BOOM! Done. Then when Snoke dies, it looks more like the dark side is defeated. Then when Kylo seems like he still wants to rule with the dark side it becomes even more shocking.

 

Even though we don’t know much about Snoke’s background, we do know enough to understand that the most powerful dark sider has been killed. More background might be nice, but isn’t necessary to tell the story of Ren’s ascension to power. It’s his arc that is the focus.

Imho opinion we know quite a bit about him at any rate. He wants Kylo for an apprentice because he believes Skywalker blood is powerful. He fears Luke because Skywalker blood is powerful. He’s hatched a plan to use one Skywalker to vanquish the other. He is basically defined by his obsession with the Skywalkers. He thinks dealing with them is the key to everything. As might any new dark sider trying to dominate the galaxy.

 

That's a nice one. I do like the Plaguis one as it ties the whole saga together. E.g. in Palpatine's arrogance he killed him in his sleep using Lightning instead of stabbing him with a sabre. Remember how Palpatine couldn't believe Luke was still alive in Episode 6 and had to keep using Force lightning. Plageuis could have faked his death and dropped the title Darth after seeing he had not foreseen his apprentice turning on him and was unworthy. But then seeks to return after seeing the dark side supposedly collapse.

Or the Windu argument actually seemed alright. But some background was necessary. 5 minutes to 20 minutes of exposition spread out over TFA and TLJ through conversation and flashback was not too much to ask for.

I agree on your second paragraph.

But feel that your first misses this crucial point. This is not a new film or franchise. It is a continuation of the story from Episode 6. So if you watch the OT and see this, it makes little sense. For a random dark side user, to be so powerful and suddenly have just randomly sprung up? It needs to all tie together. Some exposition in TFA or flashbacks in both TFA and TLJ would have solved this. THEN and only then, will our journey toward the dark side be complete.

 

Agree to disagree. It might be interesting to learn how Snoke came to power, but all that’s necessary to tell Ren’s story is to know that he did and that he’s obsessed with the Skywalkers. At any rate, this trilogy isn’t complete. I think we’ll learn a little more about Snoke’s story, but that what we will learn will once again primarily serve to flesh out Ren’s.

 

Odd then that so many fans are fascinated and pleased with his SW.

How does that work, exactly? Your fandom have more weight than ours?

 

We know enough about Snoke that's important to the plot. Background is just icing. Anakin ended the Sith, not the darkside so it's probable in the next 2 decades some random dark sider sprung to power.

 

Or, more likely, IMO, one was living in the UR.

 

That really just means he's not important to the plot. How Palpatine became head Darksider was not important to the plot of the saga, so we didn't need to know, and still don't know. How he rose to power in the Rebublic/Empire and how he corrupted Anakin was, thus it's in the films.

If being the guy who turned Ben Solo dark off screen is all he is, he was not needed in the films at all.

 

That too. Palpatine had The Eclipse Super Star Destroyer (or maybe that was Rax's idea) hiding in the Unknown Regions where a bunch of Imperials fled to after the Battle of Jakku. I always assumed Snoke was, like, on the bridge when they arrived.

I think it's worthwhile to see the guy who was the main cause of Ben's turn and then see him get killed unexpectedly and have his body flop over and the start of Supreme Leader Ben. But Snoke's background? Eh, not seeing how it's critical to the story. He's a plot piece.

 

Although we DIDN'T know the details of Palpatine and Anakin in the OT, because, again, it wasn't important for THAT story. If we get a story about the rise of the First Order and the fall of Ben Solo, then Snoke will obviously loom large (so to speak).

 

If Snoke shows up in Episode IX in anything other than a flashback, then he'd better be integral to the whole Skywalker story from the beginning. Snoke looks so bad, I could imagine that he's been chopped up before, so technically he could show up in the dismembered flesh again (maybe with Hux pushing his wheelchair) - - and it would be really fun seeing the look on Kylo's face if Snoke comes back.

But WHY is Snoke so hung up on getting another Vader anyway? Palpatine did all the legwork for wiping out the whole Jedi Order; he was clearly the Big Evil Power. Vader was always just his flunky the whole time. I can see why Ben is hung up on his grandfather, but Snoke? Is he just talking about a Big Bad Vader II because he's trying to get to Ben/Kylo? Or was Snoke around when Palpatine/Vader rose to power? Did he have anything to do with Anakn showing up as the 'chosen one' in the first place? Does he see Vader as the Great Power never realized? Does he see something deeper in the whole Vader/Skywalker thing?

I'm glad that Luke at least gave Palpatine credit for being the Big Bad Guy when he went off about the arrogance of the Jedi. But what about everyone else?

 

People actually think Snoke might be a Mace Windu? Gosh

 

Right, and that makes Snoke all the more useless..... (assuming we have seen the last of him....)

When the OT came out, we got as much of Palpatine as we needed for the OT story, however, A New Hope was still the fourth part of the story (Yeah, I know Ep IV was added later, but it was added). While not knowing what happened prior had no effect on the OT story as its own thing, the release of the PT showed us that Palpatine was crucial to everything that happens in the OT. Why everyone is who they are, where they are, why they are there, and what they are doing.

If Snoke is not part of the bigger picture, meaning the only thing about him that relates to the ST is that he turned Ben Solo to the Dark Side, then we didn't need to see him in the ST at all, or at least not presented in the way he was. Palpatine in the OT is hardly presented as important until ROTJ. He is only mentioned in ANH, and seen once via hologram in TESB. Snoke was presented as very important from the very beginning of the ST. Don't get me wrong here. Snoke turning Ben is very important, but if his agenda and motivations in doing so are not related to the overall Saga, his backstory doesn't matter, and his place in the ST is very overstated if not completely unnecessary.

If he is part of the bigger picture, meaning he connects to the overall Saga in a deeper, more impactful way, than his presentation in TFA, what we saw in TLJ, and some sort of revelation in Episode IX, will clear things up.

 

Useless? No. He served as a an obstacle... a challenge for Kylo's "Villain's journey."

The OT would still be great, even if the PT never came out.

See above... Snoke is essential to Kylo's villain's journey.

 

In episode 9 JJ shows a sequence of Luke revisiting dagobah. He ventures to the cave once again...



... Snoke then appears.

Problem solved.

 

I see that Snoke's biography on the official site has been updated. This period post ROTJ really does feel like it could make a quite a cool tv show, but perhaps it'll be a book?

“A secretive master of the Force and seeker of ancient lore, Snoke saw Luke Skywalker’s nephew Ben Solo as a Jedi of potentially limitless power, heir to the Skywalker bloodline. While Luke debated whether or not to restore the Jedi Order, Snoke influenced Ben, preying on his feelings of abandonment, his fascination with his family legacy, and his need for a teacher.”

“Meanwhile, in the galaxy’s unknown regions, Snoke had become the ruler of the First Order, a hermit state that sought to reclaim the Empire’s legacy and glory.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/supreme-leader-snoke-biography-gallery

 

We have wasted 2 films out of 3 (they said this would be a sequel trilogy to continue the SAGA) achieving what precisely. It seems like these films, whilst entertaining, are not as well written as the 6 before them. They don't flow and this is meant to be one saga.

It just means you have to keep utilising precious screen time in Episode IX to explain what should have been hinted or explained already in TFA and TLJ. 20 minutes interspersed throughout either or both would have helped everyone. "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail."

HOW?

Someone randomly doing it rather easily seems absurd. This is meant to be one big saga, tying everything together would make more sense. There is set up in TFA (with no background or flashback exposition) and no payoff. Poorly written like they're just making this up as they go along.

By your argument the Sith were extinct for a millennia when Sidious executed his brilliant gameplay. However, he was found not to be a random dark sider, but a Sith Lord. I.e. the Sith were not extinct. It wasn't just a random person who became dark and overthrew everything.

Star Wars is supposed to make sense. Not be random at the expense of a good story.

Your argument might have been okay if these were just some random new film franchise. But it is not. It is Star Wars and part of the MAIN saga. Not an anthology film.

So it has to tie together and flow. For a random dark sider to just materialise out of thin air, corrupt and ruin the new Jedi Order (all off screen of course as the writers have deemed us ignorant and not worthy of whatever they have planned if they had a plan at all), seems absurd. Watching the films as a saga makes no sense anymore.

The ST is enjoyable thus far, but no sense of a story arc, nor how the Force this happened after Episode VI. That's why linking this to Darth Plagues, I can buy that argument. Or at least give us some information.

I also agree, I LOVED it when Luke had that speech about the Jedi let Palpatine outplay them and rise at the HEIGHT of their power. Not only did it tie the whole saga together (for once the ST worked), but also reiterated that the Jedi were not an Order to be blindly followed.

However I do think that Snoke should have been hinted at or explained via flashbacks and conversational exposition (like in the PT and OT). This is meant to be a continuation of the MAIN saga about the Skywalkers from Episode VI. It seems very poor now to have not explained anything. A random dark sider, seems absurd. Not to mention we have wasted 2 crucial film slots now and what is the story arc, or where is the exposition?

I agree about the supposed obsession with the Skywalkers and Darth Vader. I quite like the Darth Plagues argument - perhaps Palpatine erred in killing his master. Out of arrogance he may have used Force lightning in his Master's sleep. (Remember how he was stunned Luke was still alive in ROTJ on the Death Star when killing him?). Plaguis may have faked his death, but been ashamed that he had not foreseen his Apprentice's betrayal (perhaps it is something he never sees, much like in TLJ) and dropped his Darth title. And watched events from afar, to return when Palpatine and his apprentice fell. But curious about Darth Vader, because for once someone turned back.

Alternatively I can see the Windu argument - maybe Windu felt that no longer was the Republic which betrayed them worth saving and that Order was the only way to protect the galaxy from itself, no matter what the cost and that he should fully give himself to the dark. Better Plagues or Windu than a random dark sider who mysteriously appears with no story and is then dispatched. No story at the moment is there.

We should see things on the movies screen. NO need to consult additional information to enjoy Star Wars movies in the past. It's just the fact the writers appear not to have seen Star Wars before, and are making the story up as they go along.

 

Remnants of the collapsed Empire sought to restructure. They establish the seeds of their new regime on a distant planet with mysterious dark energy. It is there that they uncover the tomb of an ancient dark lord Snoke. Awaiting his own reprise, Snoke acts as the advisor to this remnant group until they revere him as their leader, promising to bring them to galactic supremacy. Meanwhile, Snoke takes pride in his own opportunity to control the galaxy with the dark side of the Force, seeking revenge against the order that put him in his tomb for so many years.

That's all the kind of background we would need.