ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

I may have confused what actually took place in the novel with spoilers for the novel.

 

Jason Fry to the rescue again.

At least now we have 'some' history for Snoke... but this should have been in the film or on screen in some form. 5 or 6 sentences scattered throughout the films by multiple characters would've been enough, even.

Spoiler

"I pit their leaders against one another while bidding my time"
or
"I once encountered Snoke on my quests for Jedi artifacts, he's knowledgeable, but not someone to be underestimated."
or
"Your Emperor once sensed my presence, I could tell it fascinated him. Yet he never knew how the remnants of his legacy would become my own."
ect.ect.

(Obviously not real dialogue, but an example of harmless tidbits that could have been sprinkled in the film to give us better context.)


Still doesn't answer everything, but it at least connects to some of the hints we'd been given in earlier novels.

 

There are no legitimate reasons this information should have been in the film.

 

"The emperor was convinced that something waited for him out there-some origin of the Force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance. He said he could feel the waves of it radiating out now that the way was clear. The emperor called it a signal-conveniently one that only he could hear." - Empire's End

Spoiler

It seems that Snoke found the 'source of the dark side' that Palpatine sought in the Unknown Regions, but it's described here as 'truths about the Force". Truths hidden within an object, or place, perhaps? It's something capable of emanating a dark side ' signal' of some kind. This secret knowledge might also explain Snoke's formidable Force abilities.

 

If you're new to Star Wars starting with Episode 1, you see Palpatine spend years executing a brilliant plan to become the Supreme Leader, hoovering up more and more power and influence, creating a war that engulfs the galaxy, becoming the Emperor, destroying the Jedi and reigning over the galaxy for decades while a Rebel Alliance does all it can to destroy his creation. By the end of Episode 6, you finally see the downfall of this figure that has been the key antagonist of the entire saga.

Episode 7 then starts with a new, Emperor-like figure and absolutely no mention of where he came from, what he is, why he is so powerful, or what his motivations are. Considering the previous 6 episodes in the saga takes the time and effort to build up the Emperor, I think it's outright bizarre that an instant replacement appears in Episode 7 with no explanation.

Episode 8 doubles down on this by portraying him as even more powerful, we see the influence he has over Ben Solo and how integral that was to the destruction of Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order. It is perfectly legitimate, actually pretty essential to the cohesion of the overall saga to have some understanding of Snoke.

 

They know they don’t have 6 films here. Nor do I think that they think the general public care as much about a slow build like that as some here do. So, the OT model of a trilogy is what they’re after and then they can flesh out prequel style info elsewhere for the hard core fans who like that extra detail. The OT worked great even without the PT and in some ways worked even better with the head canon each unique person brought to the backgrounds. They know that so they’re focusing on the details of this present area more. We are thankfully getting the odd flashback/flashforward to help. Which is something we didn’t have the luxury of in the OT.

Anyway, it’s canon now and as real and important as anything in the films when it comes to the SW world and remains that way indefinitely and will likely be expandable in more Snoke EU stories. It’s probable Johnson and the Story group and Fry worked on it collectively.

That’s all that matters in the end. We have some more info and can use it when discussing Snoke.

 

I'm not talking about 'slow build', I'm talking about a few lines of dialogue at least to give some context to a very important character - not much to ask. Especially as Snoke is integral to Ben and Luke's stories in the ST.

Movie-goers shouldn't have to rely on peripheral books and comics to get satisfactory answers from the movies.

 

Snoke isn’t Palpatine 2.0. And the PT was always meant to about the Fall of Skywalker, the Jedi, and the Republic. And in 6 films and TCW we didn’t learn that much about Palpatine and still don’t know a lot. And we’ve learnt a bit more thanks to the New Canon. Over 45 years of story time—counting Aftermath—and 41 years of real time, we still don’t know much about Palpatine.

Now, the ST isn’t finished, so maybe we’ll learn more. But it is only 3 films, not 6. And why should the ST mirror both the OT and ST, or even just one of these trilogies?

We learnt some info about Kylo’s fall in VIII. Maybe we’ll learn more in IX. But only if it’s germane, not to quiet the whining of those whose Head Canon was violated.

 

Sure, just ignore my entire point then. Snoke certainly is Palpatine 2.0. Do you not think it is out of place for a continuing story for a new 'Supreme Leader/Emperor' to instantly appear in the next episode after the previous 6 episodes had just charted the rise and fall of the Emperor?

This has nothing to do whatsoever with head canon - why do you suggest it does?

 

On the one hand I do agree with you that a few lines like this wouldn’t have hurt at all. It’s not like he needed to go on for paragraphs about his life history or something.

On the other, I do think it’s more the hard core fans and boarders like us that are the only ones really obsessing over knowing all of the details we know or want to know and that this kind of stuff probably is better served in EU material for us so that the films are more focused on visual storytelling, or in this case... Snoke’s primary function to what’s happening right now.

If the prequel era had been a trio of books exclusively I’d miss the saber battles and the great concept art but I’d also been spared some Cruise ship acting delivering clunky lines and overreaching CG and could have imagined my own Anakin or Padme. Books allow us to imagine the delivery of the lines in our own ways and that allows for more exposition and thoughts from inside each character. In this case we learn more about Snoke’s thoughts without him having to say them aloud. If we get more into Snoke’s past I’d prefer it happen in books so that I can imagine how he’d be like younger and how it would be like for a

Spoiler

younger Luke to talk to him

and get into that more and in a way that works for me than what would have been possible had they tried to shoot that.

The setup for this ST will be better served in novels. Just as most content aimed primarily at setting up superior stories that follow afterward probably are.

 

If Snoke were Palpatine 2.0, you wouldn’t be complaining, since we would have learnt of how he took over the First Order. And you already had fixed ideas on how things should have unfolded at least on the general level.

However, we’ve one more film to go and we’ll see.

 

Whatever your feelings on Snoke's role in TLJ, both Andy Serkis and ILM deserve applause for this kind of work.

 

There was an actor. And he was amazing. And I loved the details of Snoke’s face. His walking was very well done.

He had depth, admitting he may have been wrong about Ren and having been wrong about Luke. He shows compassion towards Ren’s wound and manipulates him. And yet, his megalomania. Great performance by a great actor.

 

Agree 100% with this, which is why I will be shocked if we have seen the last of Snoke. The guy has had a death experience before at some point in the past, IMO. No humanoid being can survive the type of gash he has on his head and the guy looks like walking death.

I just can't see this guy appearing out of nowhere with no explanation before being killed off without there being a bigger play in store for later.

Snoke was killed so that we can see him cheat death, IMO. Does this mean he is Plagueis? Not necessarily - perhaps Plagueis indeed failed at figuring out how to cheat death but maybe someone else didn't fail. Him being Plagueis would tie things together well but there is plenty of evidence pointing to that not being the case.

I really want to know more about this character, and unlike the OT, there will be no PT to expain things further. It's possible they may do a Snoke anthology film later, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards anytime soon. Right now, to me, this is a plot hole.

 

Also when people say "well there was no way to logically put this exposition into the film," I simply respond with "Imperial boardroom scene and Vader talking on Tantine IV." You CAN in fact explain stuff, do it in a way that feels natural, AND it doesn't have to take up much time either.

When Sheev has been built up as the ultimate big bad over six movies, and his rise and fall chronicled, and Vader's story as well. But then this new guy shows up doing the same kind of stuff, but you don't bother to explain anything about him and where he's been, yes you DO need to delve more deeply into it, especially if you're saying that he's more powerful than Sheev and Vader.

I call it what it is, he's a lazy plot device for lazy writing, and that's the thing about the ST. It's "OT-lite, but more rushed, not as well set-up. and less interesting."

 

Seeing the little bit in the novel about Snoke it still doesn't pin down how long he has been around. It has lines that could suggest very ancient or more recent but I guess taken as a whole I would probably say it leans to him not being crazy ancient old. Maybe in the hundreds of years age range to about Yoda's age if his race has a crazy lifespan but how in the heck could he stay under the radar all that time unless he was in the unknown regions for a very long time.

 

I think I may be leaning back towards him being the Consecrated Eremite, though I realise this would make him very old indeed. Not totally sure, but there are one or two things that might fit.

Snoke apparently is a "secretive master of the Force and seeker of arcane lore". It seems he found just what he was looking for in the Unknown Regions. But the key seems to be that he was on some sort of search for this knowledge. From Gallius Rax, we know that the Eremite, whilst once a resident of Jakku, went elsewhere, and there seems to be se sort of local legend, or belief that he would come back. ( to Palpatine ): " Are you Eremite come back?"

The Eremite was obviously a holy man of some sort, and a hermit, so it may be reasonable to assume that one possible reason for his departure might be that he underwent a pilgrimage. But to where, and for what?

Snoke's knowledge of the Unkown Regions apparently saved the former Imperials from many threats. So, if he went to the UR to discover truths about the Force, has he been there a while? It seems that he did have knowledge of that region of space. More than the Imperials, at least.

He has killed countless legions of enemies. This seems lile it may suggest quite a span of time.

 

Interesting. Did they ever say what race that Consecrated Eremite was or was it just assumed he was a humanoid. If he was a native there I wonder what races lived on Jakku or is it one of those planets that had no intelligent races of its own originally.

 

I think what needed to be in TLJ was Snoke as pertains to the Skywalkers, how they knew him, how he reached Ben.

The rest isn't really all that essential.

 

And it's irritating because both Leia (in TFA) and Luke in TLJ say it was Snoke, but no one says what that means.

 

Sidious and Maul showed up out of nowhere with no explanation. And all we know of Sidious’ past is from ROTS and Tarkin, unless I’m missing something

We learned a lot of Maul from TCW. I loved him in TPM and koeves how GL. and DF developed him on TV. And SW’s voice acting, though SW’s voice acting in all of SW is great.

 

No, no mention of species. The only other details were that he lived on Jakku before whatever ecological disaster befell the planet, which was apparently, at least 1000 years ago. And he lived on the Plaintive Hand plateau.

 

So we don’t get the boardroom sc

Well, just because we don’t get any info so far in these movies doesn’t mean it’s a lazy plot device. It’s amazing how people who aren’t filmmakers call it lazy writing. It’s easy to be Monday Morning QBs.

Again, we learned very little of the Emperor in the OT even with the few lines we got. I thought he was a Jedi Masterceho fell to the dark side given his powers and garb. But then how did a Jedi Master become Senator?

At no point was he was he a Sith.

For the prologue of ANH, he was a senator who became President and was controlled by the bureaucrats. He then became Emperor. To give him credit, he did control the Brotherhood of the Sith and military, and did dissove the Senate.

By ROTJ he is a dark side wizard, but he appears to be on his own, which is how Snoke appears.

In Dark Empire he again seems to be his own man. And whether or not Exar Kun, one of my 2 favorite Old EU villains, along with the dude in your avatar, lied to Luke about training Anakin we may never know.

Anyway, DE and the Kip Durron trilogy aren’t canon. (I hope Solo canonizes the explanation for how many par secs foe the Kessel Run.) but neither is the Darth Plagueis novel.

So after 7 GL films and 3 animated series—2 canon—the canonical Maul Dark Horse SW swan song comic series, and Tarkin and Lords of the Sith, we still know little about Sheev. Well, we know his stupid praenomen, but I’ve got used to it—and Snoke’s name as well. What we learned about Sheev only raises more questions.

The Saga isn’t over. Maybe in IX Ren or the other Apprentice will say something. You have the proairetic and hermeneutic in narrative films.