ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

There was something oddly charming about Snoke slamming Hux face first into the ship deck and literally mopping the floor with him

Like a parent chastising a child

We see it again when Snoke lets Rey think she's called the lightsaber to her, only to smack her over the head with it

He's old, tired, and surrounded by idiots who think they're hot stuff, so he constantly has to show them they're not - and he can't kill them because he needs them to run the military, which is something Snoke lacks experience with

Can't live with them, can't live without them

 

Really? I felt bad for Hux all movie. I admired that he still stood up to and calmed these hot head Force creatures. Perhaps he is too insane not to simply be brave.

 

Snokes dad confirmed.
Snoke even looks a bit like this guy.
I bet Snoke had a bad childhood as well and that is why Kylo liked him

 

Personally I prefer Darth Sidious's method of handling incompetent lackeys failing their tasks.



It won't fatally deprive him of his servant, but it gets the point across of the penalty of failing the supreme leader. Slapping Hux around the floor does not have that same effect as Force Choking.

 

So, the more I think about this, the more likely it seems to me that the real mystery behind Snoke isn't so much "who is he?" as "what did he find?". And it could be that this fits in with some of the themes that we were introduced to in TFA. Specifically, the search for, discovery of, and importance to the present of relics from the past.

"A master of the Force and a seeker of arcane lore" - Supreme Leader Snoke. ( From the SW Databank)
http://www.starwars.com/databank/supreme-leader-snoke

In her long centuries traveling the galaxy, Maz Kanata has collected any number of antiques and trinkets, stashing them in storehouses and vaults in her castle. Some of her dearest treasures – including a lightsaber built by Anakin Skywalker -- can be found in an old wood curio box, kept unlocked. Maz protects objects that speak to her through the Force, certain that one day the Force will in turn guide other seekers to find these relics. - Maz's Curio Box
http://www.starwars.com/databank/maz-s-curio-box


TFA gave us a desert world filled with the relics of the Galactic Civil War, a search for a legendary Jedi Master, more myth than man, the long lost Skywalker saber now in the possession of Maz Kanata, a collector of Force relics, the charred helmet of Darth Vader, and a planet that claims home to the origins of the Jedi Order.

And just as the Skywalker saber called out to Rey, it seems that Snoke may have been on a pilgrimage, following a call from the dark side, to discover the origins of the Force that mirrors Luke's search for the first Jedi Temple.

This passage from the TLJ novelisation, detailing how the earliest Jedi discovered Ahch-To, is remarkably similar to the details given in the Aftermath books concerning Palpatine's search for a 'source of the dark side' in the Unknown Regions.

Spoiler

“followed a whisper in the Force, plunging into the trackless churn of the galaxy’s stars and trusting the Force to find pathways through them.”

Spoiler

From the Aftermath series:

“Palpatine felt that the universe beyond the edges of our maps was where his power came from. Over the many years he, with our aid, sent men and women beyond known space. They built labs and communication stations on distant moons, asteroids, out there in the wilds. We must follow them. Retreat from the galaxy. Go out beyond the veil of stars. We must seek the source of the dark side like a man looking for a wellspring of water.”


"The Emperor was convinced that something waited for him out there—some origin of the Force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance. He said he could feel the waves of it radiating out now that the way was clear. The Emperor called it a signal—conveniently one that only he could hear."

And again, from the TLJ novelisation:

"Papatine’s true identity as Darth Sidious, heir to the Sith, had been an even greater secret than the contingency. The Empire’s explorations into the unknown regions had served both aspects of it’s ruler. For Sidious knew that the galaxy’s knowledge of the Force had come from those long abandoned, half legendary star systems and that great truths awaited rediscovery among them. Truths that Snoke had learned and made to serve his own ends."

So, is this the first Sith temple? The mother of all dark side caves? A powerful Sith Kyber crystal?

 

That’s very true, the running theme of lost artifacts and the power of the past has been consistently strong throughout the new canon. I’m wondering, hoping, if perhaps Lucasfilm will avoid stories set in the distant past so they can avoid narrowing down those legendary times, or having them lose their power by virtue of being seen.

Spoiler

When I first read the Aftermath series, references to the source of the dark side made me think more of the type of world we’ve seen before in The Clone Wars, which Filoni discusses briefly here:

http://www.starwars.com/video/the-lost-missions-q-and-a-the-force-planet

In Rebels we see similar legendary worlds from the past come back to relevance in the present, but in this series they were more closely connected to the actual Jedi and Sith cults, and rather than simply being places strong in the Force, they had been converted into mechanisms of power.

But finally, the films seem to be going for an even more sparse interpretation, if The Last Jedi and Ahch-To are any indication. Here we have a world that is once again strong in the Force, but it is neither an extradimensional place nor a superweapon harnessed by Force users. It is simply a place of knowedge and meditation, where beings can connect to the Force and uncover truths that further develop that connection.

So I think what all these hints to a dark side nexus in the Unknown Regions result in will depend much on what medium is used to cover it. If, as we most hope, I think, it is something that relates to the actual films, Snoke’s place of power and likely something Kylo would have access to now, then I’m thinking it will be more like Ahch-To than the others, simply because that works better for film.

But what would that look like?

We’ve seen places strong in the dark side in other worlds where the light was also strong, but presumably this would be different from those, and even distinct from more purely dark places like Mustafar, Moraband, and Malachor. I would certainly love seeing some kind of dark version of Maz’s collection, an old castle filled with artifacts of the dark side and hints at past stories and adventures from a largely mysterious past.

In my head canon, I’m hoping for a place more like the Zone from Stalker, a location imbued with an invisible power, but also unseen danger at every corner, that promises great power if you survive it, but also leads to unexpected consequences and transformation, mutation. That said, a standard hellscape seems more likely.

I’m very curious about it. As well as what sort of knowledge Snoke could’ve had that would have saved the First Order. Was he referencing an ability to find worlds, to navigate, through the Force? Or something closer to what the Sith meant by knowledge, which is actual power. Will these seeds grow into anything?

 

Yeah, that's a good point. The way that a such a vergence is suggested in animation, or a novel might not necessarily translate to the cinema screen. Perhaps such a place might share charateristics with Dagobah's cave of evil, albeit on a much grander scale.

I also see a potential connection here between the way in which the Acolytes of the Beyond view Sith artefacts as storehouses, or batteries of the "darkness of the Living Force", and Palpatine's belief that what lay in the Unknown Regions could be the 'source' of the dark side. The Sith artefacts are in effect, mini vergences. Vader's helmet, too, I should imagine.

We see one such vergence, the Skywalker saber, at work in TFA, when Rey connects with it, and experiences a vision. We also see the power of Sith relics at work in the Marvel Lando series, where the dark side radiating out from Palpatine's storehouse of Sith treasures corrupts and transforms those who come into contact with it.



There's also some evidence that vergences, such as Mortis, both draw in the Force, and amplify it's power. In the TCW Mortis episodes, Qui-Gon states "This planet is both an amplifier and a magnet."

Also in current canon, Kyber crystals are said to amplify the Force, and we have the Temple of the Kyber, and the Guardians and Disciples of the Whills, who believe that the crystals act as a conduit. Interestingly, a huge crystal also hovers above the Mortis monastery, shattering upon The Father's death.

 

Although, considering how eager Kylo is to let go of the past, it's entirely possible this mystery of the Unknown Regions won't be picked up by Episode IX. Maybe another series or story will tell the tale of the First Order's rise. There's definitely enough seeds there now for what seems like a good bridge between eras.

Recently I've been wondering two things related to what we learned about Snoke from the novelization:

Spoiler

1. What kind of knowledge did Snoke have that allowed him to save the First Order and take over its leadership? Both his connection to the alien navigators and the phrasing of his "shepherding" the First Order to salvation makes me think that this is a reference to whatever abilities he had that helped the First Order navigate and establish themselves in the Unknown Regions. Then we also heard about Snoke's seeming ability to perceive and influence things from a distance, which may be metaphorically represented by the oculus device in his throne room. Finally, we also see also his ability and experience with using the Force to perceive future timelines, which has cost him in the past and ended up costing him his life in the end. I'm wondering if these are all connected, and it is his prescience that was helpful in saving the First Order not only navigate the UR but also survive more active threats encountered there? If so, this seems more like a reference to Dune, with its themes of presciences and its usefulness in astro-navigation, than anything.
2. When did Snoke become Supreme Leader of the First Order? The novel references past leaders that we knew were involved at its inception: Gallius Rax, Rae Sloane, and Brendol Hux. But it also mentions the "political fanatic" Ormes Apolin, who I did not realize until today (looking at Wookiepedia) was actually a New Republic Centrist Senator mentioned in Bloodline. To me that says that he was not involved in the First Order until about 6 years before TFA, so if Snoke was still vying for power at that time, it's possible he had not become their leader until fairly recently. Unless he was just listing political rivals through the decades, which makes sense considering Rax died long before the Order truly began forming. Although it is non-canon, the databank entries for Snoke and Kylo also suggest he had not yet become Supreme Leader of the Order until after he corrupted Ben Solo, but this could just be vague language.

 

Didn't someone say one of the books that came out had Snoke leading the First Order about 10 years prior to TFA? I think it just used the term supreme leader.

 

StarWars.com just posted an excerpt from the Thrawn: Alliances novel, and it involves Palpatine feeling a disturbance in the Force coming from the Unknown Regions, and dispatching both Vader and Thrawn to investigate on Baatu (the featured planet for the Galaxy's Edge park at Disneyland / Disney World). Could this possibly be the first awareness of Snoke?

http://www.starwars.com/news/thrawn-alliances-excerpt

 

I like how Snoke is handled better in the novelizations than in the films. We learn more about him. However, that said, I do like Serkis' performance, especially the voice. I also agree with Snoke's handling of the First Order. Or I would if I were wicked. Lol. I don't think Kylo Ren is ready to be its ruler. Snoke was wise, at least from the Sith perspective.

Plus, I agree with his line. Ha ha. I could watch this all day.

 

PS: to previous statement. Mods may add it to it, if they deem necessary.

I suppose one thing I like about Snoke is that he's sort of like a better-written Vitiate. We all know that Vitiate was meant to be a combination of Sidious and Nihilus. Snoke, to me, is a like a combination of Lumiya (vulnerable but crafty, dangerous) and Vitiate (thinks he's god).

 

Was he handled better in the novels? I read ANH before seeing the movie when it came out. Everything was handled better. Whether original or novelization, books fab gone more detail.

I’m glad I read The Godfather and Jurassic Park after seeing these classic movies. However, reading Jaws first didn’t diminish my watching the masterpiece adaptation.

 

Not substantially better. But "better" enough so your imagination can do its work. I still prefer the old EU overall. But I'm trying to say what I like about TFA and TLJ. I'm mainly a fan of the performances more than the style of writing. R1 is my favorite of the new ones, of course. But this sequel trilogy does get some unnecessary hate, to say the least.

Case in point: I agree with Anakinfan that Rey was not written properly, but Daisy Ridley is such a good actress that it doesn't matter. I kinda feel the same about other characters.

I love Amilyn Holdo, Poe, and many characters in TLJ. I like Snoke because I think he was a good antagonist. He only grows overconfident at the end, due to his sexism toward Rey, among other things. Plus, I think it's fairly easy to deduce how Ren killed him. He simply clouded his mind enough for it to be ambiguous, and he was powerful enough to do that. Ren has a lot of potential, but compared to, say, Darth Traya, Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Krayt, Jerec, and Darth Maladi, well...Ren isn't that skilled. I'll leave it at that.

 

Well, of course it would be disappointing if he were Palpatine 2.0. That’s already been done in Dark Empire. Or was that Palpatine 2.0 and 3.0?

I see Snoke as a most powerful Force mystic whom Palpatine stumbled upon. Maybe he explored the dark side in order tho have mastery of everything about the Force, Cosmic and Living, light and dark. But once you begin the dark path, consumed you’ll be.

Palpatine confuses Snoke to be the source of the Dark Side and begins the exploration of the Unknown Regions and ultimately Snoke winds up with the Imperial Remnant. I don’t see him as politically motivated. I assume, as others have suggested, he sets up a puppet government as he may not really be interested in political power.

This makes him different from Palpatine, who handed the keys to Mas Amedda and the Imperial bureaucracy and military to focus more in the Force, but still has me some interest in politics.

 

Just as many of us thought: Snoke, a force-sentitive mystic of the Unknown Regions who watched the entire Clone Wars/Rise of the Empire/Galactic Civil War from a distance (Out of Fear because of Palps) and then became the unlikely leader of the Imperial Remnants/First Order because of, mostly, geographic reasons (and also Dark Side mastery/ambition at that point)

Better that than Sidious' spirit possessing a random force-sensitive guy of the U R

Too bad JJ nor Johnson bothered to even mention this, dumbing down the lore

 

Probably more out of the fact there were thousands of Jedi running around still. It will be interesting to find out Snoke's true power. The movies would make you think it was greater than Palpatine based on how he just toyed with Kylo and Rey but they have played around with the power stuff lately having Bendu with that crazy power and Luke being able to project himself like that.

 

In 2013 a Star Wars cartoon-book was published by the German cartoonist Matthias Kringe in Germany titled "Spass Wars" (Fun Wars). In this book M. Kringe drawed a comic about Palpatine joining a wrestling-casting. Any foreshadowing to be seen?

All rights of this picture by Matthias Kringe and Panini-Books.

 

What a great actor. I wish they didn't waste this character the way they did. He could have had so much more meaning.

 

Nice find. Title is a bit misleading as only the CGI seems to be unfinished. Great voice from a great actor.

 

The Andy Serkis Live bit is on the Last Jedi bluray, I highly recommend looking it up for people who dug Serkis performance to see it in only the mocap suit and he's still scary as hell (and there's also another Snoke featurette on there as well)

 

@SateleNovelist11: On which level of force power would you put Snoke? I believe from what we've seen he's somewhere between Sheev and Vitiate.

 

I wouldn't rank Snoke's power that high. His skills are basically more advanced version of his apprentice's. Extremely potent telekinesis and telepathy. He had no physical combat skills that we saw, in fact he seemed very frail and feeble. There's a reason he needed so many bodyguards. Palpatine, by contrast, was always quick to dismiss his guards.