ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

He let Yoda live. He also couldn't foresee that his immensely powerful apprentice was going to throw him down the Death Star's reactor shaft. Both of these were major missteps that led to his downfall. Palpatine was a great planner, but he had arrogance that blinded him like no other. Luke even calls him out on it in Return of the Jedi: "Your overconfidence is your weakness". Whoever Snoke is, whether that be Plagueis, some ancient Darksider, or even a pretender, it's likely that Palpatine knew about him, but just didn't consider him a threat. Snoke probably used that to his advantage by playing the long game, waiting for Palpatine to slip up.

 

Yeah, Palpatine wasn't an infallible know everything... He made mistakes (Darth Mauls death, not seeing Vaders betrayal, underestimating the Ewoks, etc.)

Also, he was sometimes taken by surprise by events (Amidala's return to Naboo) and didn't always know how things would play out (when he reveals himself to Anakin you can see his fingers fidgeting nervously... He knew Anakins prophecy and he wasn't absolutely certain what Anakin would do - And again when he was asking Anakin for his help in the Mace confrontation, he wasn't absolutely certain what Anakin would do)

So, its certainly not beyond question that he was wrong in thinking he'd "killed" Plagueis... Especially as there's an effective "out" already woven into the story given that DP knew how to "cheat death".

 

He also underestimated Luke as well, which is why he was so angry when Luke rejected his offer in ROTJ. And he let Obi Wan live as well.

As Luke said "your arrogance is your greatest weakness." So no, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Sheev simply ASSUMED that Plagueis was dead. Also, did I mishear or was Snoke actually referred to as "the wise" at one point in the film?

 

Please

direct all Plagueis talk to the Plagueis thread. Thank you

 

Please d

Please direct all talk about Plagueis to the Plagueis thread. Thank you.

 

This is a great post for the Plagueis is Snoke thread! He LITERALLY has his own thread. No need to mention him here. I'm sure they would all love to hear your opinion over there though.

 

Sick triple post. Hopefully the Mod's will give you a nice little vacation, considering my post was two fold and not based on "He Who Shall Not Be Named." It was a response about Snoke as shown in TFA as being some sort of Avatar, and that I thought the character was kind of weak.

So, see ya!

 

Di

didnt know that sarcasm or pointing out facts was an offense, thanks for letting me know.

 

To me the most interesting thing about Snoke is that Han and Leia both seem to know him. The way they talk about him makes him seem familiar, like they've actually interacted with the guy. Otherwise, how would they have any idea he corrupted their son?

Han: Ben, take out the garbage!
Ben: My new friend Snoke says I don't have to listen to you anymore. He says it's OK to let out my anger.
Han: Well, when you're 18 you can go live with whoever this Snoke guy is, but for now you're under my roof and you'll do as I say!

Unless Han and Leia saw it happening, I don't think they would know about it. I think Snoke is some sort of teacher that Ben had, that they trusted in the beginning, before they realized that he was evil. That's when Leia sent Ben to Luke's academy.

Snoke may be some guy from the far reaches, but I think he's got to have infiltrated the Solo family somehow. Maybe with the unwitting help of Lor San Tekka, who now must set things right.

 

I'm leaning towards him being some sort of politician at one point. Maybe he attempted to become Chancellor but they figured him out. He started a fight, then Luke put those scars on his face. Maybe after that he has been watering the seeds he planted in Ben's head from the outer rim.

 

Interesting idea. I'm kind of stumped. He seems like a very mysterious figure except for the fact that Han and Leia seem to be pretty damn sure that he corrupted their son and seem to have an idea of how he did it.

 

I'm sure they did it on purpose so it leaves room for a ton of backstory that the next movies and other mediums can explain. His relationship with Ben is one of the things I find most intriguing about the last 30 year gap.

 

The novel suggests Snoke began corrupting Ben pretty much from the latter' birth, which was around a year after ROTJ. This suggests Snoke had access to the family around ROTJ time, or immediately after.

 

Maybe he worked with Leia

 

If so, it means he almost certainly wasn't a part of the Empire.

However, Leia mentions that Snoke manipulated everything to draw Ben to the dark side "from the shadows". So unless he had a double identity, that implies he got to the child either via agents or less prosaic means.

 

But Leia did find out about it, so he couldn't have been TOO far in the shadows. I wonder if he was part of the rebellion, but actually evil. But then I heard someone say he was not around for the Galactic Civil War. That points me toward him being someone Luke found in his search for surviving Jedi or force-sensitive beings after ROTJ.

 

Serkis said that Snoke didn't get his injuries in the Empire/Rebellion conflict and implied that he wasn't involved in it, but added:

"“He’s aware of what’s gone on, in the respect that he has been around and is aware of prior events. I think it’d be fair to say that he is aware of the past to a great degree.”

The novel confirms he witnessed both the rise and the fall of the Empire. That suggests he certainly was around, but not directly involved with either faction.

 

I'm still a fan of him being outside of the Empires maps and being from were Palpatine said he gets his darkside power

 

Can't be coincidence that the theme played during Snoke's scenes is the same theme played during the opera in ROTS when Palpatine talks with Anakin.

Just saying!

But, I wonder what you guys/gals think about the theory Snoke could be a Whill? Considering the Whills are referenced again in TFA. And Snoke is supposed to be someone ancient and lurking.

 

No, it's a coincidence. He could be a Whill, I'm pretty sure they are like the galaxy's record keepers. This could definetley explain how he knows so much about the past.

 

We've been told Snoke is a powerful master of the dark side. Ren may have more potential, but his training is incomplete. So, kinda like Sidious and pre-Mustafar Vader.

I read the SW novel even before I saw the movie in 1977. The prologue had Palaptine as a refieming poltician who got corrupted by the Senate and bureaucracy he was trying to reform. According to Kurtz, he was supposed to remain this way until Episode IX, when he finally see him and he does. He had no Force powers. Why. GL changed that in Episode B, I don't know.
W
I was surprised to see him in V, based only on the ANH novel, not based upon the Kirtz interview, which I read during the prequel era, IIRC. I was surprised by his guise and dialogue in V. I was dismayed to learn in the novelization that Vader feared him. Then VI confirmed who the Master was.

I think Snoke is actually very powerful than Ren, but Ren has more potential. As Han said, Snoke will destroy Ren after he can use Ren for his power. This is opposite of what Palps planned in III. Vader would become the most powerful being in the GFFA. If Palps can control Vader, great. If Vader destroys Palps, that is the way of the Sith who will live on in Vader and his apprentice, the mission of destroying the Jedi and Republic having been accomplished.

 

You're right. Palps wasn't infallible. He was surprised by the Queen's returning to Naboo.

However, being to create life, which is hinted at in the movie ROTS and attempted ST in the DP novel, isn't the same as cheating death. Palps changed his turn after Anakin turned. Do was he lying. Even though the DP novel, which is love to read, isn't canon, does DP actually try to cheat death by manipulating the midichlorians? I thought he and DT wanted to create the Chosen One and inhabit his body. Sorry, been a long time since I read the Wookiepedia entry.

However, DP's wanting to or attempting to cheat death has no strong canonical support. Creating life may have support--if Palps wasn't lying.

 

Doesn't bringing balance to the force mean making two sides equal? I think Anakin pretty much helped facilitate that in episode 3. I always thought that's what the prophecy meant and that everyone misread it.

 

He left it unequal because there was only Luke. Maybe that's why Snoke showed up.

 

If you got cancer, (god forbid) would you want both the cancer and your body to be 'equal'? Is that balance to you?

No! In order for your body to be balanced and healthy again, it has to get rid of the cancer, which spreads by eating away at normal healthy cells. The Sith were the cancer. It wanted to control the entire body. It doesn't mean that your body isn't still breaking down, or dying in some other natural way. It's just not being destroyed by a cancerous agent.

That doesn't mean the darkside goes away. I think that darkside is still a natural part of the universe/galaxy/force. Just as death is completely natural. The Sith just used it in such a way (selfishly, trying to cheat death, etc) that they were causing an imbalance.

The Sith were essentially tipping the scales in their favor. Get rid of the Sith, and good v evil is balanced again.

That all said, I don't think it's ever explained well in the movies. And the Jedi definitely misread their prophecy - which if anything only contributed to Anakin's fall. Balance doesn't mean, two Sith // two Jedi. The Jedi were destroyed in the process because of their own unhealthy actions. Their dogma didn't help. Their choice to become warriors when they weren't suppose to, didn't help. If you get cancer in your kidneys, and chemo doesn't work...you're probably going to lose the kidney too.

What I like about Snoke, besides the mystery, is that he doesn't seem to like Kylo all that much. The Emperor kinda like Anakin. He seemed to really believe that Anakin would be the best Sith ever. I think he wanted that, in so much as it could make the Emperor more powerful. In the OT, Palpatine and Vader seemed to be rather sick of each other, although they still played nice. Snoke, on the other hand, doesn't seem at all fond of Kylo and begrudgingly completes his training.