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TFA TLJ Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by dlbates, Dec 20, 2015.

  1. Scott109

    Scott109 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Viewers of the original trilogy knew the Emperor rose to power and seduced Vader to the Dark Side of the Force, influencing him to hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights.

    In 1980, The Empire Strikes Back was only the second film in the saga. The Emperor’s shadowy backstory was perfectly consistent with all that was revealed in A New Hope.

    Snoke’s nonexistent backstory is more jarring in light of all that the first six installments of the saga revealed.

    The Jedi thought the Sith were the only dark side Force users in existence. Snoke is not a Sith but is more powerful than any Sith in the saga. Who taught him the dark side? Is there a secret order of dark side Force users the Jedi were ignorant of?
    Why was Snoke hiding in the shadows for so long?

    Was Snoke the creator of the First Order? If so, how was he able to create the First Order from the ashes of the Empire? How could he command such devotion all of a sudden after hiding so long in the shadows? If not, how was he able to seize control of the First Order?

    Why was Luke aware of Snoke before Kylo Ren turned to the dark side?

    The Emperor’s shadowy backstory was perfectly consistent with all that was revealed in A New Hope. George Lucas always knew how the Emperor rose to power and revealed his creative vision in the prequels.

    Snoke’s sudden presence in the saga demands an explanation.
    He appeared out of nowhere in the seventh episode of a saga after the Sith - the main antagonists of the whole series - were destroyed.

    I am convinced J. J. Abrams introduced his character without knowing his backstory and Rian Johnson killed him off purely for shock value.
     
  2. All_Powerful_Jedi

    All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2003
    All we really need is one adjective to say who Snoke was. Was he an arms dealer? The king of a planet rich in dark side magic or whatever? Was he a rich dark side collector who Palpatine dealt with?

    Just... anything would’ve helped.
     
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  3. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Part of me is grateful that we learned so little, because the mystery still gets to me and makes me want to solve it. That said, I do think Abrams and Serkis (and maybe even Kasdan) did develop at least a general backstory for Snoke. If we do ever learn his backstory (and I hope we do and sooner rather than later), it will probably shift and adapt itself to whatever else has appeared in canon. But I do hope to learn what the filmmakers had in mind originally, which we could learn if The Making of The Force Awakens ever makes it to print.

    In the meantime, I looked into The Making of Return of the Jedi instead to see what kind of ideas Kasdan would have brought to the table as he and Abrams developed these characters and their ideas of the Force, the Jedi, and the dark side. Here are some interesting tidbits in no particular order:
    • In an old draft of ROTJ, the Emperor is referred to as the "Supreme Ruler of the Galactic Empire and Master of the dark side of the Force." The second title is especially noticeable for how it avoids connecting him to any particular cult, and it matches the title given to Snoke in TLJ promotional material.
    • In this and other drafts, Grand Moff Jerjerrod had very different role to the one seen in the actual film. He was more of a vizier/adviser figure, who was much closer to the Emperor in authority and was not only helping him to turn Luke to the dark side but also felt comfortable enough berating Vader for his failure to do so. Interestingly, concept art for this version of Jerjerrod showed him as an alien dressed in elegant and extravagant clothing, something closer to the advisers who arrived with Palpatine, which may be where they originated.
    • In a discussion between Lucas, Kasdan, and Marquand, Lucas revealed some of his ideas at the time for the Emperor's backstory and about the Force in general:
      • The Emperor was not a Jedi, but simply a Nixon-like politician who took over the senate and later learned more of the dark side. The Force is not limited to the Jedi, but anyone can learn it, like a technique, like yoga or karate. The Jedi dedicate themselves to it, and so they are powerful with the Force, but anyone could learn it.
      • Lucas says it was a misconception (at the time) that Yoda taught Jedi when he was really more like a guru and doesn't go out and fight anyone. A Jedi Master is a teacher, not an actual Jedi, something Kasdan was "shocked" by. Lucas said Yoda would not have been able to beat Vader, at least not in the kind of fight that Vader would have against him (mainly physical.)
      • When asked specifically if the Emperor has Jedi powers, Lucas says: "Well, he is like Yoda: Yoda isn't a Jedi, the Emperor isn't a Jedi. Yoda has mystical powers and it's the same thing with the Emperor; he's like the grand priest, but he's not chief of the tribe. Jedi are the chiefs, they are the warriors who go out and fight with their swords. The Emperor and Yoda are the priests who are the spiritual chiefs; they have powers that are much stronger."
    Obviously, a lot of this changed by the time of the prequel trilogy, along with the formal introduction of the Sith as a dark version of the Jedi cult. But this was the backstory even up until the point of the original ROTJ novelization. Specifically, I'm referring to the idea that Palpatine was primarily a politician, and that his mastery of the dark side is something that he learned not as part of a cult, but almost as a technique. Here are a few quotes from the novelization:
    • "Back in the days when he was merely Senator Palpatine, the galaxy had been a Republic of stars, cared for and protected by the Jedi Knighthood that had watched over it for centuries. But inevitably it had grown too large—too massive a bureaucracy had been required, over too many years, in order to maintain the Republic. Corruption had set in."
    • "And so Senator Palpatine had seized the moment. Through fraud, clever promises, and astute political maneuvering, he’d managed to get himself elected head of the Council. And then through subterfuge, bribery and terror, he’d named himself Emperor."
    • "The Republic had crumbled, the Empire was resplendent with its own fires, and would always be sofor the Emperor knew what others refused to believe: the dark forces were the strongest."
    • "He’d known this all along, in his heart of hearts—but relearned it every day: from traitorous lieutenants who betrayed their superiors for favors; from weak-principled functionaries who gave him the secrets of local star systems’ governments; from greedy landlords, and sadistic gangsters, and power-hungry politicians. No one was immune, they all craved the dark energy at their core. The Emperor had simply recognized this truth, and utilized it—for his own aggrandizement, of course. For his soul was the black center of the Empire."
    So what does this have to do with Snoke? Technically, and factually, nothing. But these are the sorts of ideas that were floating around when the Jedi, the dark side, and the Emperor were first conceived and imagined. The Emperor and the dark side were both born of a state that was more machine than human, that took that humanity, that connection, away. The master of the dark side is born from mechanical bureaucracy, and his main power is the power to corrupt, including to corrupt those who are even more powerful and dangerous than him.

    So to me this says that Snoke could be a parallel of the original Emperor concept: he emerged from the dying Empire instead of the Republic. He could have been one of Palpatine's many advisers, someone perhaps less insane and more capable than Yupe Tashu, who gradually grew to develop true power as he salvaged more artifacts of the dark side: from the Emperor's own holds, from the known galaxy, and possibly even whatever source or nexus of the dark side the Emperor perceived in the Unknown Regions.

    With this in mind, and considering that the Empire is slightly less xenophobic in the new canon, I can see Snoke as an alien advisor removed from the general galaxy and conflict of the OT, but perhaps more involved with Palpatine's arcane plots toward greater dark side power. Maybe Snoke did originate in the Unknown Regions, and became an advisor during the early Imperial explorations of that region. Or maybe not. The main point is that he was not necessarily powerful at the time, and therefore not seen as a threat by the Sith or perhaps even by a younger Luke and Leia.

    These are just some thoughts, speculations on the influences behind the Snoke character. I'm not claiming any of this as something that we know about Snoke. But to me it does seem to fit well enough with what we've learned, and is a backstory that truly would not have been worth including in TLJ. It also makes me wonder, and hope, that if there is a greater source of dark side power deep in the First Order's UR holdings, then Kylo Ren may be interested in finding this in the next episode, along with the help of his knights. Just crazy fan thoughts.
     
  4. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Because we’re eight movies into a saga. The Empire was the status quo in the OT so an emperor wasn’t questioned.
     
  5. Leoluca Randisi

    Leoluca Randisi Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2014
    also when Lucas invented the OT he had no idea the Prequels would be a thing or what they would ultimately be about.
     
  6. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    My point still stands. A better comparison would be if Palpatine never even appeared in the PT and then showed up in the OT with no explanation.
     
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  7. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    The gist of the back story was there from the start.
     
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  8. Leoluca Randisi

    Leoluca Randisi Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2014
    I know Lucas claims he had it all mapped out but I don't believe that for a second. your telling me you new about Jar Jar in the late 1970's and early 1980's? so if you didn't know about Jar Jar back then how could you know the Emperors backstory?
     
  9. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    So what? You really want Snoke to parallel Palpatine. And we still don’t know much about Sheev, albeit we did learn a little in Tarkin.

    You might as well drop it.
    You mean The Tragedy of Darth Vader? Not even close. Long before Indy, GL,

    ‘I’m making this Sith up as I go along’, explanations included.
     
  10. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005

    Excerpt From 'The Making Of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi'

    On May 25, the third film in the original Star Wars trilogy, "Return of the Jedi," will turn 30 years old. To celebrate, HuffPost Entertainment is publishing this exclusive excerpt from J.W. Rinzler's excellent "The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi," due to be released on October 1.

    Die-hard "Star Wars" fans should appreciate this transcript of a July 1981 story conference for the franchise's third installment, then titled "Revenge of the Jedi." In attendance were series creator George Lucas, writer Lawrence Kasdan, director Richard Marquand and producer Howard Kazanjian.

    To give the others a better idea of who Darth Vader is, George Lucas maps out the character's pre-Dark Side life as Anakin Skywalker. Lucas' words here, in 1981, offer a startlingly accurate preview of what would eventually become the "Star Wars" prequels, released between 1999 and 2005. And yet there are notable exceptions, as well. For instance, Lucas compares The Force to yoga and says anyone can use it, which seems to conflict with what we learned about midi-chlorians in "The Phantom Menace." And he's adamant that Yoda does not fight -- an opinion he clearly revised sometime before 2002's "Attack of the Clones."

    REVENGE OF THE JEDI STORY CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT, JULY 13 to JULY 17, 1981—SUMMARY
    Participants: George Lucas, Richard Marquand, Lawrence Kasdan, and Howard Kazanjian
    Location: Park Way House
    Note: Many of the ideas here are conceptual only and should not be considered as canon in the Star Wars saga.

    THE STORY OF ANAKIN
    Lucas: Anakin Skywalker starting hanging out with the Emperor, who at this point nobody knew was that bad, because he was an elected official.
    Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?
    Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke’s father into the dark side.
    Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?
    Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.
    Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
    Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.
    Marquand: They use it as a technique.
    Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody.
    Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he?
    Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?
    Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock.
    Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.
    Kasdan: You mean he wouldn’t be any good in a fight?
    Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn’t.
    Kasdan: I accept it, but I don’t like it.
    Lucas: Well, anyway, Luke’s father gets subverted by the Emperor. He gets a little weird at home and his wife begins to figure out that things are going wrong and she confides in Ben, who is his mentor. On his missions through the galaxies, Anakin has been going off doing his Jedi thing and a lot of Jedi have been getting killed—and it’s because they turn their back on him and he cuts them down. The president is turning into an Emperor and Luke’s mother suspects that something has happened to her husband. She is pregnant. Anakin gets worse and worse, and finally Ben has to fight him and he throws him down into a volcano and Vader is all beat up.
    Now, when he falls into the pit, his other arm goes and his leg and there is hardly anything left of him by the time the Emperor’s troops fish him out of the drink. Then when Ben finds out that Vader has been fished out and is in the hands of the Empire, he is worried about it. He goes back to Vader’s wife and explains that Anakin is the bad guy, the one killing all the Jedi.
    When he goes back his wife, Mrs. Skywalker has had the kids, the twins, so she has these two little babies who are six months old or so. So everybody has to go into hiding. The Skywalker line is very strong with the Force, so Ben says, “I think we should protect the kids, because they may be able to help us right the wrong that your husband has created in the universe.” And so Ben takes one and gives him to a couple out there on Tatooine and he gets his little hideout in the hills and he watches him grow. Ben can’t raise Luke himself, because he’s a wanted man. Leia and Luke’s mother go to Alderaan and are taken in by the king there, who is a friend of Ben’s. She dies shortly thereafter and Leia is brought up by her foster parents. She knows that her real mother died.
    Kasdan: She does know that?
    Lucas: Yes, so we can bring that out when Luke is talking to her; she can say that her mother died when “I was two years old.”

    ***there's stuff that predates this, too, I believe***
     
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  11. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2017
    What's wrong with getting a little more about Snoke in terms of how he got the First Order into the position it was despite being a remnant of a failing Empire? Something is better than nothing. Snoke is nothing but a copy of Palpatine. A cheap copy to boot. He was interesting in TFA in how he was different from Palpatine. But TLJ threw it out and made him into a Palpatine clone. Minus any of the interesting parts of Palpatine, which Snoke's appeal far worse.

    Here's an idea: Snoke was a scholar and a devoted cultist to the Dark Side during the Empire days. He's extremely knowledgable of the Force, yet is very weak with it except for his strong mind reading abilities. He is thus cowardly and afraid of assassination, only holding on to power by the leverage of knowledge he posses. He corrupted Ben Solo because he needed Ben's power to achieve what he wants (possibly grooming Kylo Ren as dynastic future ruler of the FO) and when Kylo Ren realizes that Snoke is actually a paper tiger who has no real power over him, he decides to supplant Snoke and take over as the Supreme Leader. And he succeeds.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  12. Leoluca Randisi

    Leoluca Randisi Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Ok I read the whole thing and I am a little confused, How does any of what Lucas say in 1981 match up with the PT? He actually had the Emperor married[face_hypnotized]
     
  13. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2017
    The Emperor was always meant to be a politician who took over the Republic and turned into an Empire through political means. Politics was a big part in the backstory along with Anakin's downfall. These are broad strokes to the actual story, but it was enough to understand how Palpatine became the Emperor.

    And no, the Emperor is not married. That's referring to Anakin and Padme.

    So yeah, there are major differences but the backstory core is the same. Palpatine was an evil politician who pretended to be nice, got into power through politics, and corrupted Anakin. For Snoke, all we know was that he was the leader of the First Order and he corrupted Ben Solo. And that's it. We don't know how he came into power in the first place or why now has he become important. Not even for a few dialogue lines (which could have shown a different method of rising power in an evil vacuum). And we know he won't get a backstory in the main saga because VII skipped that part. Whereas IV-VI had I-III to fill in the blanks regarding Palpatine's rise to power.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  14. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2014
    Adding to the Rian Johnson backlash is Andy Serkis, saying he was shocked that Snoke was killed off with no backstory and that the fans very much wanted more. Says in Star Wars, anyone can come back from the dead if necessary.

    (but not likely)
     
  15. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    I think the main point of bringing up the information from The Making of Return of the Jedi isn't whether Palpatine's character is consistent between what they thought for him in the OT and what they developed in the PT. The main point is that there were ideas about how such a character might emerge that later evolved into a different story for Palpatine, but that, conceptually, could be taken and used for the ST's Snoke.

    Essentially, the Emperor described in the conference is a conceptual sketch of a dark side master character. The OT was vague enough that this was all that was known about him for decades. The PT fleshed him out and changed his character, Darth Sidious was born along with the Sith backstory. But that "abandoned" piece of character concept, of a bureaucrat who independently dabbles in the dark side and learns to master it on his own, could conceivably have been reused for Snoke's backstory.

    We certainly have precedent with the Knights of Ren seeming somewhat similar to the "Knights of Sith" from a very old version of the first Star Wars script. Or Vader's castle in Rogue One, an idea that had existed on some level for a long time. And this would explain why Johnson and Abrams felt like there was no urgent need to bring in Snoke's backstory into the fray, considering what was already explained about the First Order. Because if Snoke is essentially a personification of the First Order, then both are explained with the simple phrase, "the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire."

    That he's an alien is frankly not too great an issue, considering Mas Amedda and possibly the original Jerjerrod concept I mentioned earlier. This is just speculation. But considering it was 30 years between ROTJ and TFA, simply accepting that an ex-Imperial could learn the dark side of the Force and become a master in that period of time seems like a not-too-convoluted explanation for the reemergence of the dark side in the form of Snoke. At least conceptually.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  16. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Double post
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  17. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    I think snoke is this

    [​IMG]

    And this



    Snoke is not Darth plagueous, but the concept of darth plagueous. He is a creation of Kylo Ren. It is kylo ren trapt in the cave.

    Long before the sequels were even announced i believed this scene was an opening for them.

    The reason there is no backstop is because snoke is directly part of Kylo rens story.

    ...it is done in an open way. They can go a number of ways. Wasnt Vader at one point scarred from a reactor. . Maybe snoke is Palpatine..




    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  18. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    We really didn't know that much more about the Emperor in the OT than we do Snoke.
     
  19. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2017
    But little information about the Emperor was gradually revealed over three movies, drawing the audience into his character as the story progresses. All of it was to established that the Emperor is the true villain of the story when Luke finally meets him. Snoke, on the other hand, was given a lot more details earlier on than Palpatine in TFA, which made him interesting at first. But TLJ reveals almost nothing new about Snoke other than he's wearing a golden bathrobe and can link minds. Everything he does can be traced back to TFA in some way and I dare say he loses some of his more interesting traits. Gone was the wise, emotionally manipulative calm behind the scene leader that reminds me of Yoda and in his place was a cackling Emperor Palpatine clone.

    We could have gotten an insight in Snoke's ultimate agenda for the galaxy that could have been more complex than taking over the galaxy. We could have seen how Snoke differs from Palpatine more since he's not a Sith and doesn't need to act like a Sith. We could have gotten a few details as to how he was able to raise a huge army or corrupted Luke. It could have tied with Kylo Ren's views on the galaxy and his family.

    Instead of drawing people in to learn more about Snoke, the film kills him off abruptly and we never hear about Snoke again. As viewer, I interpret that as Snoke is unimportant and therefore I should not get invested into this character because the film doesn't want to. He wasn't even the final boss that ST was building up to.
     
  20. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    Regarding Snoke is a force projection by Kylo

    It would be like fight club.

    Just that Kylo literally made up Snoke like an actual person.

    I mean now that i think about it Snoke really popped up from nowhere and knows about the whole Luke Vader thing.

    How? Mabybe bcoz Kylo was told by Luke probably.

    I mean Snoke knows everything Kylo knows and vice versa.

    Is there anything that Snoke knows but Kylo doesnt already?

    Snoke and Kylo both dont know about Luke's location and both are more concerned with killing him than the FO.

    Hux manages the FO and plan what to blow up and when. Snoke just says Ok.

    Snoke knows Kylo 's every feeling and thought.
    No force user can do that.

    How did Snoke seduce Kylo to the dark side right under Luke, Leia, Han's care ?
    He didnt. Bcoz Kylo made him up. Simple.

    I think Kylo has a split personality disorder.
    They keep saying he is being "torn apart."

    I am liking this theory more and more.
     
  21. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    Regarding Snoke is a force projection by Kylo theory

    It would be like fight club.

    Just that Kylo literally made up Snoke like an actual person.

    I mean now that i think about it Snoke really popped up from nowhere and knows about the whole Luke Vader thing.

    How? Mabybe bcoz Kylo was told by Luke probably.

    I mean Snoke knows everything Kylo knows and vice versa.

    Is there anything that Snoke knows but Kylo doesnt already?

    Snoke and Kylo both dont know about Luke's location and both are more concerned with killing him than the FO.

    Hux manages the FO and plan what to blow up and when. Snoke just says Ok.

    Snoke knows Kylo 's every feeling and thought.
    No force user can do that.

    How did Snoke seduce Kylo to the dark side right under Luke, Leia, Han's care ?
    He didnt. Bcoz Kylo made him up. Simple.

    I think Kylo has a split personality disorder.
    They keep saying he is being "torn apart."

    I am liking this theory more and more.
     
  22. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2012
    For as wrong as many of us think they got Luke in The Last Jedi, Snoke, to me, is a much bigger mistake. I have said from day one that the most important thing for them to get right in the ST is the villain, and it doesn't seem to me that they have......

    Snoke not having an in film back story is ridiculous. The villain in Star Wars has always had profound ties to the heroes. The sheer fact that The Force Awakens begins with a new "Empire" magically in place with a never before mentioned or heard of Dark Side Force user in charge makes no sense if you are never going to reveal who that character is or how they came to be in that position. And whats worse is that now with The Last Jedi, we come to find that Snoke isn't even the big bad...... And you would think that would soften the blow of his lack of backstory, but it makes it even more lazy and pathetic. The guy who was able to essentially resurrect The Empire and corrupt a Skywalker is not important enough to give any reasoning to? This is worse than Rey being a Mary Sue.
     
  23. BB-8

    BB-8 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2015
    I don't mind that we don't know much about Snoke. What I mind is that he's not different enough from Palpatine. Either give me a backstory that tells me what this guy is about and how he's different from the other big bad (or why he's so similar), OR make him a very different character.

    George Lucas was much better at this. Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and General Grievous all echoed Vader. They were facets of what Anakin would become, but were each very different from Vader. And aside from Dooku, the films give us nothing on Maul or Grievous.
     
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  24. Leoluca Randisi

    Leoluca Randisi Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2014
    I think there is enough of a difference and IMHO that Is a good thing because we don't want these films to all be carbon copies of each other. So what If he doesn't have a backstory like Palpatine It makes him different and unique and the film is different and unique which to me is a good thing. One thing I think more so then ever people might not of liked this film because it was more a mix of OT and PT where as TFA and RO was mostly an homage to the OT And again that is ok to me because not all these films have to be the same and I love the PT as well as the OT and the ST as well!

    Something else I will point Out We still have one more film in the trilogy, I think people who liked TFA but didn't like TLJ are going to be Pleasantly surprised what JJ Abrams has in store for us with Episode 9, How JJ finishes this. I believe the true Legacy of these films wont be felt till years after there all done where there true Place In Cinema and Star Wars Lore truly lies. I remember when TPM came out and got Ripped a new one by critics and Fans allike I loved TPM as well I loved Jar Jar but It seemed like my family and friends didn't like it as much as me and used to goof on me for liking it. But I remember when I was a lurker on here 10 years after TPM came out a thread on here was started with the title: 10 Years Later What Do You Think Of TPM and to my surprised fans seemed to like it a lot more like the saying goes Time heals all wounds. I think to truly see where these films stand we wont truly know for about another 10 years...
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  25. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    They were a thing though. They existed in story if not as movies hence Episodes IV, V and VI.

    Going the backstory he talked about so much actually did figure into the eventual movies.

    Clearly it was adjusted, expanded, etc etc but it doesn't change that Sidious' story is in the PT I-III as the OT being IV-VI shows.

    Snoke's story has to figure around those events. This is a fairly easy thing to do so it's not a question of being possible but how you want to do it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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