ANH discussion thread

"If no ship had come by to pick up Vader, he would have eventually died in deep space as well."

The TIE Advance has a hyperdrive, unless Vader's was a prototype.

 

"Ah, but if you'd seen ANH only, it might have seemed to you the matter was closed. It's been pointed out that for all we know, the entire Imperial government was on the Death Star, and they all died when it was destroyed. If no ship had come by to pick up Vader, he would have eventually died in deep space as well."


IIRC that pretty much sums how most of us felt when ANH ended. Boy weren't we pleasently surprised!


It's kind of cheesy, but at the end, when Artoo pokes through, I cried from joy at seeing the little robot survive!

 

Assuming that the entire Empire was destroyed when Luke blew-up the Death Star leads to some interesting probabilities:

1. The galaxy would have to be relatively small. The smallest type of galaxy known to exist is the ultra-compact dwarf galaxy. It makes sense to think of the SW galaxy as an ultra-compact dwarf. The galaxy would be about 325 light years across and would contain a mere one million stars. Assuming that 1% of these stars possess an habitable system, and that 1% of these habitable systems actually are inhabited, we have a total of 100 inhabited systems. That sounds about right.

2. The Imperial fleet would have to be relatively small. In the entire movie we see no more than three or four Imperial cruisers. There is no reason to suspect that there are any more than that. Of course, when the Death Star was destroyed, this fleet was docked inside it.

3. Imperial cruisers would have to be relatively small. Geoffrey Mandel's 1978 blueprints give the smallest figure I've seen: 486.5 meters long. I like this figure. The commonly-quoted "one mile long" figure makes them too big for the Rebels to stand up against. Remember, Tagge was worried about the Rebel equipment (which consisted of a grand total of 15 X-wings and 15 Y-wings). Thirty snub-fighters wouldn't stand a chance against a mile-long ship, but one 486.5 meters long is a different story. Thirty fighters could take one out. Further, we'd need to assume that the Imperial cruisers do NOT have a complement of TIE fighters, as Geoffrey Mandel's blueprints assume. If they did, the TIEs would neutralize any threat to the cruiser the Rebel ships would otherwise pose.

4. In keeping with relatively small sizes, I also like Geoffrey Mandel's size for the Death Star: 67.375 km in diameter (as opposed to the commonly quoted size of 120 km in diameter). It is more economically realistic to posit a smaller Death Star since the Empire's tax base would also be smaller in an ultra-compact dwarf galaxy.

Lastly, note that things are small only RELATIVE to the sizes typically given in SW discussions. A galaxy of 1,000,000 stars is still unimaginably vast. A space station 67.375 km in diameter is still gargantuan, as are Imperial cruisers of 486.5 meters in length. It's only because we've become accustomed to inflated figures that these big numbers don't seem so big.

 

What were your feelings about ANH when you first saw it? How does it stand as an independent film? What would you think about the GFFA if it were the only Star Wars movie?

I don't remember when I first seen it. I wasn't even three years old when I would have watched it for the first time. But I can say my feelings about the film though.

It just captured me. From the very first viewing and beyond. My love of the film has never ended in twenty six years.

I think it would suck as an independant film. The end kind of leaves you wondering what will happen with the characters. It would be a brutal end if it were a stand alone film. I likely wouldn't have liked it as much.

 

It's probably been said, but the only reason it ends like it does is probably so Lucas wouldn't have to go ahead and make a sequel had it failed at the box office.

 

The TIE Advance has a hyperdrive, unless Vader's was a prototype.

We don't know that when watching ANH. We assume his ship must be a bit tougher than the standard TIEs, because it survives the impact with the other fighter, but we have no reason to believe the cockpit contains a fold-out buffet service and unlimited oxygen and everything else he'd need to stay alive. Vader's just conveniently back when ESB starts, so in hindsight we have to create explanations for how he survived.

The figure of 100 inhabited systems is interesting. So if there are only 100 planets humans/humanoids can live on and the people in the galaxy have had faster than light travel for a long time (which would make sense to assume, given how dirty things are and how accustomed people are to them), there are probably at least some people on every planet. So, Yavin wouldn't have been an uncharted settlement when the Rebels set up base there, and the Rebels would have had to hide from the locals somehow. Also, Tarkin must have known he'd be killing innocent people even if he did get the planet with the rebel base.

 

Sara Kenobi wrote: I think it would suck as an independant film. The end kind of leaves you wondering what will happen with the characters. It would be a brutal end if it were a stand alone film.

I don't understand why you think it is a "brutal" end. To me, it is a beautiful and elegant ending. And, in typical fairy tale fashion, just as the story starts with the words "a long time ago", so the story presumably ends with the assumption that "they all lived happily ever after". Han and Chewie obviously would have left to pay-off Jabba. The only loose end is Vader still being alive. That is neatly taken care of by assuming that Luke kills him in a lightsabre duel.

 

If no ship had come by to pick up Vader, he would have eventually died in deep space as well.

Vader's specialized TIE fighter was equiped with a hyperdrive system, so interplanetary travel with it was theisable.

 

Yeah, plus GL kept him alive in case SW was a hit.....






Which it was.

 

"Vader's specialized TIE fighter was equiped with a hyperdrive system, so interplanetary travel with it was theisable."

We didn't know that in 1977 when we saw the movie. Luke even pointed out earlier that TIE's are short range fighters. Me and all my friends thought Vader just flew off into space.

"Yeah, plus GL kept him alive in case SW was a hit..... "

Good point although Vader was around for at least 6 of the 9 trilogies, at least the story GL had in his mind. Once he made the movie I'm sure GL hoped Star Wars made oodels of money and made him the most famous person since time began but there was no garuantee it would. As it turned out, Star Wars was huge and spawned the sequels.



**Disclaimer**
I don't actually think GL is more famous than the beginning of time. I am

 

Well, I just got done playing a few missions in TIE Fighter and I guess Vader didn't have a hyperdrive on his machine anyway, if you want to accept the TIE Fighter as evidence.

According to the game, TIE Advances weren't mass produced until after the Battle of Yavin and hyperdrives weren't immediately available in them. Vader's is also listed as a prototype in Rebel Strike.

I wasn't wrong though, as I said "unless Vader's was a prototype."

*saves face ^_^*

 

Vader's was a prototype in ANH. I don't remember if it was for the TIE Interceptor or TIE Advanced.

 

I agree with those who say that there is no reason, based on the movie alone, to assume that Vader's TIE could make the jump to hyperspace, especially considering Kenobi's earlier description of a TIE as "a short range fighter". Assuming the Empire was destroyed with the Death Star (so he couldn't radio for help), Vader had only one choice:

Land on the fourth moon of Yavin.

 

Dark Lady Mara's words will be in italics, mine in regular font.


there are only 100 planets humans/humanoids can live on and the people in the galaxy have had faster than light travel for a long time (which would make sense to assume, given how dirty things are and how accustomed people are to them), there are probably at least some people on every planet.

Actually, I was assuming that there were 1,000 habitable systems, but only 100 of these were inhabited. I agree about the SW galaxy having hyperspace capabilities for a long time. Precisely how long, though, is a good question. Decades? Centuries? Millennia?


So, Yavin wouldn't have been an uncharted settlement when the Rebels set up base there, and the Rebels would have had to hide from the locals somehow.

I think it possible that the fourth moon of Yavin was uninhabited and/or uncharted. It is interesting to speculate, however, on who made those ruins. Perhaps Yavin-4 is the original home of the Maya before they abandoned it, flew to Earth in their spaceships, and landed in the Yucatan Peninsula.

 

Based solely on the original film, how many Jedi knights does it seem existed in their heyday? I like to assume only about 150, simply because that's how many Knights of the Round Table there were. But the film is not definite at all about how many Jedi there were.

 

Well, Obi-Wan does say Vader was "a" pupil of his, as if it were common for one master to train many students. Maybe that line was meant to allude to a Jedi school of some sort, like what there is in the EU? If that's the case, there must have been at least one "class" of Jedi being turned out every few years, so I'd imagine there were more than 150 in the galaxy.

 

up

 

I just thought it was the greatest adventure story ever .
Look at the basics of the story - young farmboy leaves home and saves the galaxy. What an arc!
And yet it's done in a totally believable way.

The imagery is utterly fantastic and yet realistic at the same time: the spaceships look so cool and yet beat up and used.

Same with the characters - they're larger than life and yet grounded in reality as well : Han's a space pirate and yet he's cynical and down-to-earth.

Lucas pulled off a fantastic trick of having it all so fantastic and yet so believable at the same time.

The humor's so great - R2 and 3PO really are a funny duo, with great banter, they're not just comedy relief, we care about them. Same with the relationship between Han, Luke and Leia, it has such sparkle and effervescence.

Tatooine looks like a real place to me. The DS is fully realised, we're given just enough history to inspire our imaginations.

Transportation - that's what SW did to me, I genuinely felt transported in those 2 hours.
I believed in the characters and the places they lived and their adventures were the best ever.

It seemed like it could exist as one movie, we got just enough to imagine that Luke and Vader would have many encounters and that the battle between rebellion and the Empire would go on and on like the eternal battle between good and evil.

g

 

NO other Star Wars movie begins cooler than ANH. Do you all remember when the Star Destroyer passes over ahead, and you though "what the!!!!!!! How figgen big is this thing!!"

What was so great about ANH was not the plot - which was hard to follow the first time you watching, if you tried to get past the basics: these are the good guys, these are the bad guys. But all the things it introduced us to. Desert planets, weird looking aliens, robots, laser swords, space dog fights, and one spooky villian that chokes people from across a room.

It is in this way that you can see how ANH and TPM are related. Both are not meant to dazzle you, not with plot, but instead with images and concepts. That is why the younger generations will embrace TPM in a similar fashion that the older generation embraced ANH.

 

Aliens, spaceships, lasers, heroes and villains. All of these things are what capture you.

If the hold is strong enough you notice after subsequent viewings and reading that you may have learned something. You might have evn went so far as to see similarities with other stories and myths you have read.

And there is the real heart of the matter; the Star Destroyer that looms overhead at the opening of ANH gets your attention, but here many people dismiss Star Wars as a popcorn movie. It turns out that SW is deep and filled with virtually every myth and symbol you can think of.

Example: Luke

Luke in Latin is 'Lux' which means 'light'. This is not an accident or something Lucas picked out of a hat and he drives it home with the last name Skywalker. Luke is a symbol of the Sun and the light. It is further emphazized in the desert world he lives on, the light color clothing he wears, not to mention his blonde hair. He is a demigod of the light.

Luke grabs us as young ones, for those of us who saw it in 1977 before we were teenagers. The twin sunset scene catches you, it is a moment of a yearning for adventure, to seek out the rest of the world and beyond.

Luke is on a classic hero's journey. Many of the perils he faces are called threshold guardians, things that just get in the way and must be overcome.

First Luke gets a Calling in the form of two messengers, the droids. Adventure calls.

Luke meets his first threshold guardian in the form of a Tusken raider and is nearly killed. His first venture(as we see it) almsot stops him.

It is here that Luke gains a spirit guide in the form of Ben Kenobi, and from Ben he recieves a Talisman..his lightsaber, a weapon of light for a sungod.

Luke encounters the Cantina, an underworld. We see alot of this in the whole trilogy; going into the depths of the underworld:The Cantina, Death Star, Bespin and so on.

Luke has trouble in the Cantina as well, so far he is not doing so well. Luke has not come of age as it were.

The Death Star has several symbols; it is the Dragon that the hero must slay, it is the Castle where a princess is held by the Black Knight, it is a symbol of the corruption of power, it is a labrynth, an underground, an in the form of a sphere it is the sumbology of the perfection of evil OR the perfection that evil wishes to achieve.

Darth Vader is many things as well; The Black Knight, Chronos of greek mythos-the god who tried to consume his children, he is Lucifer and Abbadon.

Beth AKA DarkLadyMara made the point that alot of DV's lines are a bit too hokey in ANH. I agree, and thankfully Vader becomes a greater character in TESB.

 

One last up for tonight .

Figure we could use some good dicussion here.

 

I love the movie and I think it would stand alone very well if none of the others had been made. I like when Luke stands outside on Tatooine and looks at the two suns setting! To me, that scene with the music playing louder at that point just says "Star Wars"! The characters, the creatures, and Vader! Just awesome!

 

I just rewatched TPM and AOTC recently, and I thought it would be fun to haul out my VHS of ANH to see how it felt to watch it with the PT versions of Obi-Wan and Anakin fresh in my mind. I was specifically interested in the duel, and I was not disappointed. In fact - - and I should add that it had probably been two or three years since I watched ANH - - I was pleasantly surprised at how well the duel, often dismissed, came off. Vader is truly towering and incredibly menacing, but Obi-Wan definitely holds his own until he is surrounded and knows the jig's up.

Also, the best line in any of the five films, for my money: "The Jedi are extinct; their fire has gone out of the universe - - you, my friend, are all that's left of their religion." Evidently Tarkin didn't bother with the nuances of Sith versus Jedi practices, not to mention the fact that the Sith weren't really contemplated at this juncture. What a great line, and fantastically delivered. Virtually every line spoken by Obi-Wan is excellent as well.

It's a truly great film.

 

Being so young when I went to see it I was entranced by it. The special effects, the music, the characters- just the over all feel of the movie stuck in my mind for all these years. Not to mention it was the very first film I ever went to see so ANH, or Star Wars in my book, was and always have been very special to me.

There were so many things I couldn't get over. Like when Darth Vader breathed and talked at the same time. I couldn't believe anyone could do that.

The lightsabres with their hissing sound. The holocrom chess game and the fact that when Chewie roared and grunted Han Solo understood what he was saying. There're many more things but it would take up too much room here.

Star Wars (A New Hope) will always be special to me.