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Animosity toward Anakin Skywalker - Discussion

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Alixen, Aug 16, 2005.

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  1. Alixen

    Alixen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Yo

    Before RotS, the Anakin fans such as myself tended to to not be very vocal, so it's quite hard to tell just how many fans he has.
    Yet those who dislike him are very vocal, such as inserting how much they dislike him and stating ways they wish he could die and be killed, even in threads were his name was mentioned once in paragraphs.

    Many blamed Hayden for their dislike of Anakin, claiming that it was his acting that made their dislike grow.

    Now, after seeing his transformation, things have shifted a little, but not too much.

    I have noticed a few more Anakin fans on the boards, yet still not enough to make an estimate of how popular he is.
    This time Hayden made a fantastic performance as a Heroic and Good portrayal of Luke's father, and his fall to the Darkside where his acting truly shined.
    Much diffrent to his rather 'teenagery', but good since that was ment to be what he was, portrayal in AotC that some people just couldnt seem to swallow, despite that he was SUPPOSED to be ike that.
    He was a beleivable Darth Vader pre-suit.

    But now i'v noticed the dislikers are just as, if not a bit more, vocal about thier dislike of him.
    This even seems to be shared by some of the EU authors i'v noticed.

    If you would be kind enough, would the Anakin fans please step forward and state their reasoning, and would the Anakin dislikers please do the same without simply stating the ways they would like to see him slaughtered?

    Heh, hopefully we can get a reasonable discussion going :p



     
  2. Mandalore_X

    Mandalore_X Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Every person in my watched user's list is an Anakin fan.I have Pm'd with most of them and read dicussions which they were involved.
     
  3. I_Heart_WessHar

    I_Heart_WessHar Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Anakin fan here.

    To be perfectly honest, if anyone is to blame for flaws in the movie portrayal of Anakin, I'd say Lucas. Don't get me wrong, he's a great storyteller, but come on now, his dialogue writing... even he made some comments about how Christensen got slammed for playing Anakin the way Lucas told him to. I thought the whining in AOTC was annoying, yes, from a POV within the movie, but I thought it was well-acted. I think the point was to contrast the average Jedi with the more "human" Anakin. And Christensen did the indecision and uncertainty very well in ROTS; he did have some bad lines, but I don't think there's much he could've done to improve them.

    I should mention that I watched him in Shattered Glass in between AOTC and ROTS and I thought he did really well in that, so I may be biased. I think he does troubled characters well, even if it means they aren't always likable. But Anakin, at least, is someone I feel I can relate to, and I think that's what a lot of the fans do like. He makes his decisions because of the people he cares about, even if he ends up screwing up in the long run. He always means well; he's truer to the Jedi ideals than most Jedi, though to be fair that's because he ranks duty second to loyalty. I don't know which way is right, but Anakin's is certainly understandable. People - whether that's the Jedi or the more rabid Anakin haters - can stand back and say that he should have looked at the big picture when he didn't, but I think if you get in his head his actions make more sense, which is why I liked the ROTS novelization so much.
     
  4. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    This might get re-directed to ROTS or SW Coummunity unless you direct it towards more EU discussion.

    I for one think authors have actually done the opposite and made him a more believable, human, and sympathetic character. If you guys need Anakin discussion, we certainly do a lot of it here. :)

    I liked how Matt protrayed and am looking forward to Luceno's portrayal of a more human Vader that is new to the suit, still in pain, and missing his wife and former life, as it will only add to the dark side in him. Another author who brought out some of Anakin, without losing what makes Vader, Vader is Karen Traviss. She admitted to becoming a Vader fan while trying to get in his head while she wrote In His Image, the short story in the Vader Guide.
     
  5. MidnightRain

    MidnightRain Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2003
    I've always been an Anakin fan. I thought the Hayden portrayed him very well in ROTS, and I loved Stover's descriptions of him in the ROTS novel.
     
  6. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    One bone of contention was that many authors over-foreshadowed. They went out of their way to show that Anakin was pre-Vader, starting with his "first kill" in Rogue Planet. And it continued without bringing character-building in it; Anakin would "go Dark" for a scene and then be fine for the rest of the story. He never really thought hard about anything. I believe that a poster once said that authors "were trying to write Anakin like he's a young Vader and were trying to write Vader like he's secretly a fuzzy kitten." (The fuzzy kitten thing was a reference to all of Vader's contemplative moments and doubts.)

    So I would say that Anakin's characterization was what turned a lot of people off, both in the films and in the EU.
     
  7. Rouge77

    Rouge77 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2005
    I haven´t really thought about it before, but now I have to say that I am an Anakin fan. I do think that one really has to be if one is a Star Wars fan and not a masochist. After all, he´s so integral part of both the movies and the EU nowadays.
     
  8. Riin

    Riin Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    I am a huge fan of Anakin.

    I have read quite a few of the prequel books, and I have to agree that many of them - and many of the comics, from I have read in the sw.com article - makes him go all dark. It seems as if he is always using the dark side and enjoying to kill people. After a couple books that gets really old. GL is always saying how Anakin was a good man, with good intentions. Of course he had failures - that is part of why I like him, but he wasn't a monster. I hope we see more Stover-like books, or perhaps Labyrinth of Evil. I enjoyed both, through RoTS was far superior.
     
  9. JediQueenMara

    JediQueenMara Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2005
    I'm an Anakin fan.

    Reasons:
    1. I empathize with him. His life story is horribly tragic. From being enslaved, to being manipulated, to spending most of his life trapped in that miserable suit a prisoner to his own misery... this poor guy was really doomed from the start.

    2. Well, he's hot. There I said it.

    3. He fulfilled his prophecy, albeit sloppily. Perhaps a different Jedi could have done it without the Jedi Purge and 20 years of oppressive government... but he did bring balance to the Force. The OJO, the senate, and the Sith were out of control. If you take the long view and if you have faith that the NJO will eventually fulfill their potential, his actions may well have reshaped the GFFA for the better. Sometimes, you just need to start from scratch.
     
  10. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    It started out with a dislike for Hayden.
    I think there's lots of Hayden hate. This of course, is because Hayden's grown into a very handsome man. When he was first cast, there were countless nerds on these forums, howling that they should have been cast, they look like Anakin more than him (more than the guy cast to be Anakin). Thers's a lot of jealousy there.

    I have always been a huge Anakin and Vader fan.

    I identify with him quite a bit. There's just something about him, the guy that always wants to do right and ruins it evertime. Anyone that's ever screwed up and ruined things, just because you did too much, were too helpful.

    Nothing anyone (EU inspired vitriol) here says can make me change my mind. Vader IS SW. He's the ultimate icon, the character most recognized and universally liked.

    Mostly EU fans hate him, because EU characters (mara, who else) talk crap about him, yet know nothing about him.
    All he has is a reputation. No one really knew him. Of course, it never helped that any EU author, in an sincere effort to add depth, basically villified Vader beyond anything he really did, while at the same time, elvated Obi-wan to the status of Chirst. Bantam was esp bad with this. Now that we have the PT, Anakin has been badly mischaracterized in the post ROTJ EU. He just isn't that evil. He's kinda lost and sad and empty. Nothing like his reputation. Luke knew this as early as DE, but it got carried through in book after book, with every single person inthe entire galaxy being subjected by an invalid. And Luke doesn't seem to understand the term "played" either. Of course they are going to say this to the leader of the galaxy (Leia) to manipulate..

    Then in the NJO they make Luke backtrack to "hating him". Luke never hated him. He was really mad at him at one point, and dissapointed, but that lame plot device is just a toss in to fill the gaps in the action. I don't like it a bit. I don't like it when people speak ill of the dead. They are dead. What else is there? Corpse kicking? Mara does it, but she has no class. Why did Luke join in, esp when he KNEW better?
     
  11. JadeLotus

    JadeLotus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2005
    When was this, Tiershon? I'm not having a go at you, I just can't remember where it was stated that Luke hated him. To me it was always clear throughout the EU that Luke had nothing but love and acceptance for his father.

    I disliked Anakin in TPM and ATOC. I thought he was annoying. But I rather liked Hayden's portrayal in ROTS. He made Anakin's turn rather believable.

    I like Anakin/Vader. Troubled, tortured characters are very intriguing.
     
  12. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    When was this, Tiershon? I'm not having a go at you, I just can't remember where it was stated that Luke hated him. To me it was always clear throughout the EU that Luke had nothing but love and acceptance for his father.

    It was a in FH:Reunion, when Jabitha was talking about Anakin and Mara started dissing him as ususal, and Jabitha got angry. He told Jabitha, he "no longer hates" his father, but had to live "under his shadow" for a long time. My question is, when was this? Mainly in his head. No one ever held it against him that a man he'd never known did things, unless they are morons like Fyor, but that was an excuse, because he didn't trust Luke. Luke shouldn't have been so insecure about it.
    It's a retcon.
     
  13. Chaotic_Serenity

    Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2004
    T_F, I *think* they might have been going at that metaphorically. Luke hated Vader, the monster that his father had become. He hated the darkness within and consuming Anakin, but he always loved the being that was his father, whether that father had been a shadowy figure from the past or the Anakin he came to know at the end.

    But I might be giving them too much credit.

    I like Anakin. He's my favorite character in SW, actually. :) I like him because he is flawed and unlikeable, almost as much as I love Luke because he's near perfect hero.
     
  14. Suspen-Dead

    Suspen-Dead Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2005
    I'm not gonna lie. I dislike Anakin. I dislike the 10-year old who played Anakin. That kid was a real twit.

    A lot of people just hate Hayden However-the-hell-you-spell-his-last-name because they don't like the way Anakin was portrayed in AOTC. It's not really his fault, it's Lucas' fault. The actor is just something tangible to direct the hatred at. By ROTS, Lucas cleaned up his act. You'll notice that this is when the Anakin-loathing decreases significantly. That's no coincidence.
     
  15. I_Heart_WessHar

    I_Heart_WessHar Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2005
    I agree on both counts, Suspen-Dead, especially Jake Lloyd... *shudder*
     
  16. EwokStromboli

    EwokStromboli Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Yo.

    As for Anakin, I saw him as pointlessly young in TPM and annoyingly angsty in AOTC. But he had come full circle by ROTS---or at least his portrayal had---and he was in the heroic Jedi mold I had anticipated for years. I thought H.C. was quite good (and surprisingly good) in ROTS, not only in action scenes but in that moment Anakin realizes he's going to be a father. His facial expressions were well-directed and well-executed.

    As for the previous strawman comment about nerds who wanted Anakin Skywalker to look like them . . . that was a joke, right? I mean, I'm not really a dorky looking guy, FWIW, but I don't exactly expect Luke Skywalker's dad to look like he's from Mediterranean extraction, if you know what I mean.
     
  17. bigesw

    bigesw Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2005
    I am truly a fan of Anakin and the Dark Side and even the Empire. This is unrelated really but I beleive that in the NJO series if the Empire were still in power the Yuuzhan Vong would have been defeated easily. I don't think that Anakin's turn to the Dark Side was a betrayal, I think that he made the right choice by opening up to the full spectrum of the Force. If you think that Anakin hurt himself by turning to the Dark Side I think you're wrong, it is my beleif that he just cast off the burdens that the Jedi Order had holding him down.
     
  18. Kish

    Kish Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2004
    I liked Anakin in TPM. I didn't find him annoying because he acted like a kid, which was what he was.

    I hated Anakin in AOTC, I did not relate to him, nor feel sorry for him. He was an obnoxious punk who spent most of his time complaining about his parents.(Obi and the Jedi). If it was real life he'd be listning to Emo music and cutting his writs over the bathtub as tears stream down his face because he can't impress that Padme from Gym class.

    I loved Anakin in ROTS. I thought Hayden as an actor was much better, and the transformation of his character from light to dark was believable. Anakin was just a simple kid who wanted to fix everything, by controlling it all.

    It redeemed the Anakin portrayal in AOTC and I no longer blame Hayden as a bad actor. He's obviosly very talented, it's Lucas' own inability to write a story above the 3rd grade level that led to a horrible Anakin in AOTC.
     
  19. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    I love Anakin Sywalker. He's a strange mix of ruthless vunerability, self-doubting arrogance, and loving cruelty. He's got a chip on his shoulder the size Texas, and an inferiority complex to match. He's violent but regrets it, screws up and beats himself up for it. He's completely loyal, until screwed. Don't mess with his cubs, or he'll shred you like a grizzly (though he'd never admit it). He's just likable iconic villain. He has what most villains don't, he has a heart. There's just something about him,. He's is just unforgettable.

    Quite simply, there would be no SW without him in a literal and figurative sense.

    Literal in that he is the greastest icon of the modern day. Has won millions of contests for "best villain", and many other titles, in polls, on lists, and so on. Vader IS SW. To most every casual film goer, everyone onthe planet knows Vader.

    In a figurative sense, Anakin is the father of Luke and Leia, who wouldn't exist without him, and is the chosen one as well as the fallen one. He's the catalyst on which all things rest.

    Vader rules, all the wannabes drool.

    :cool:
     
  20. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Anakin Skywalker is a complete ass, even moreso than his fellow Jedi. Only after he was humbled by a major ass-kicking courtesy of Obi-Wan Destroyer of Sith did he mellow out a little bit... kinda ironic.
     
  21. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    I really find all this "blame Lucas for people not liking Anakin" whine whine..... bleat bleat....Hayden is teh sux!

    pathetic...

    You're not fricking supposed to like him, like a beer buddy. It's a story of a man whose past and whose tempatations lead his down the wrong path. That it can happen to any person under the right conditions. In our rush to make things right, we sometimes make things much worse. Intentions aren't everything. All those lovely metaphors.

    Who the hell said you were supposed to end up wanting him to be your best friend or your kid's godfather?
    Drop the high school "cheerleader/jock=popularity" mentality. It's crap. This ain't a Disney movie.
    Take the character for what it is.

    [face_hypnotized]
     
  22. Tam_Elgrin

    Tam_Elgrin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2004
    Anakin's a prat in Clone Wars #11. He needs a slap. He gets better thoughout the war, though, and he's pretty cool in Jabiim and Jedi Trial. But early in the war, gah. He shouldn't diss Kenobi like that.
     
  23. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Most of you teenagers on here aren't that different.

    Teens are brats. They think they know everything. Operative being: think.
     
  24. Sith-Pirate

    Sith-Pirate Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2001
    From a person who isn't an Anakin fanbut doesn't hate him, here's how I feel.

    Anakin the child I really liked. I think most people did.

    Anakin in AOTC was annoying. Hayden's acting was bad (or maybe he was being fed bad lines) Anakin also whined way too much in this movie.

    ROTS: For the first half of the movie, I actually liked him. Then of course he became a child killer.....

    Anakin overall in the eu: The adult books I liked him and also the comics. But the young adult books I felt about the same way I do with him in AOTC.
     
  25. Sn4tcH

    Sn4tcH Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2004
    To me, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader IS Star Wars, everything before is just leading up to him, everything after still effected by him and his offspring.

    Having said that, I didn't like Anakin much in TPM, I thought Anakin was a LOT like Luke in AOTC, and in ROTS I would say he lived up to what people thought he would/should be.

    But why don't EU people like Anakin...? It's simple:

    THAT STINKIN SONG IN APPROACHING STORM
     
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