Announcement: Away Colors for Moderators

Discussion in 'Communications' started by rhonderoo, Jun 26, 2006.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    But if everyone thought like that, there'd be no need for the "away mods must be green" rule, now would there?

    I could see at least minor issues with the mods posting "I will be away" sticky threads, especially in the JCC. Regular users typically aren't allowed to put "I'm leaving" or "I'm back, did you miss me?" threads, especially for absences of less than a few months.
  2. George_Roper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    I could see at least minor issues with the mods posting "I will be away" sticky threads, especially in the JCC. Regular users typically aren't allowed to put "I'm leaving" or "I'm back, did you miss me?" threads, especially for absences of less than a few months.

    Mods are not 'regular users'. There is a clear, useful purpose for a mod going on vacation to post such a thread.
  3. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    But they'll already have green colors, a title stating they are on vacation, and they won't be online (at least, they probably won't be online as often). How far is too far? Some members here are extremely ignorant, and it seems like a foolish waste of time to expend so much effort into something that can easily be covered by a title change and the existing use of red or black colors. My suggestion would be to change the link in the headers to point to the mod's profile... that way, you can see their colors, the time they last logged on (removing the necessity of the "Online?" link), and their userlevel (to realize they have not been demoted). To PM the mod only requires one more simple click of the mouse. If the mods are really worried about the ignorant users being confused, they can put a line in their bio stating that they are on vacation (and amazingly enough, the bio is also seen on the handy profile link that I suggest to put in the headers instead of the two existing links).

    I'd also like someone to address the issue of mods appearing on the users online page for an hour after they log off, and how it is far more likely that someone would PM a mod with an 'urgent' issue in that situation (since it happens every time a mod logs off, which should be at least once per mod per day, so 30+ times per day) than the situation where a mod logs in while on vacation (which happens maybe once a day total). Oh yeah, and what about game winners too? You know, the ones who get to use colors.

    I find it silly that this much effort was going into something to avoid confusing an ignorant user who might think the mod was demoted, when it takes an entire one click of the mod's name to view their profile and see that they are not at the VIP userlevel. People shouldn't need special green colors and a sticky thread in addition to the title, the red or black colors that have typically been used in the past, and the lack of logging in to explain that someone is away on vacation.
  4. George_Roper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    But they'll already have green colors, a title stating they are on vacation, and they won't be online (at least, they probably won't be online as often). How far is too far?

    How long does it take for a mod to change their colours, title, and (possibly) create a sticky thread? A minute maybe? That doesn't seem like it's going too far.

    I find it silly that this much effort was going into something to avoid confusing an ignorant user who might think the mod was demoted, when it takes an entire one click of the mod's name to view their profile and see that they are not at the VIP userlevel. People shouldn't need special green colors and a sticky thread in addition to the title, the red or black colors that have typically been used in the past, and the lack of logging in to explain that someone is away on vacation.

    Well if green colours instead of red colours will help the 'ignorant' user, I see no reason why it shouldn't happen. Just because red has been used in the past doesn't mean it should always be used. And surely the non-ignorant users will quickly learn that red doesn't mean vacation anymore.

    My suggestion would be to change the link in the headers to point to the mod's profile... that way, you can see their colors, the time they last logged on (removing the necessity of the "Online?" link), and their userlevel (to realize they have not been demoted).

    That's something perhaps the mods could look into as well as an alternative to creating a sticky (assuming you mean it would be a permanent link to their profile and not just while they are on vacation).
  5. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    I believe I addressed your concern that gabe and Sape are still friends, or that they have this "issue" of volunterring gabe for something before he was aware cleared up, thereby staying on topic.

    That's one of the most sensible things I've heard in this thread.

    In some forums this is the case, in the busier forums at some time it was decided to make it a direct link to a PM. I can see the value in putting the profile back in, pm's can be done from there.
  6. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    I direct you to the following:
    (bold added to emphasize the one on-topic sentence in this entire exchange)


    But it's okay, your third off-topic reply contained one line that at least remotely had something to do with the topic. :) Sorry for distracting everyone from their fun and games with a little bit of policy discussion in Comms. :( I'll try not to let it happen again.

    And again, I ask for input from someone regarding game winners with colors, and regular mods logging out at the end of the day and appearing on the users online list for an hour afterwards. How are those any less likely to cause confusion or have a PM sent to someone who cannot help with an emergency due to not being online at the time (a mod who just logged off) or not having the power to do so (VIP)?
  7. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    "And again, I ask for input from someone regarding game winners with colors, and regular mods logging out at the end of the day and appearing on the users online list for an hour afterwards. How are those any less likely to cause confusion or have a PM sent to someone who cannot help with an emergency due to not being online at the time (a mod who just logged off) or not having the power to do so (VIP)?"

    Yeah but this thread is about holidaying mods going green and not being dropped to VIP during their break. :)
  8. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    I have to note that these last few pages smack of arguing for arguing's sake. The introduction of green colours for away mods is a minor policy decision. If it turns out not to work in the slightest, then I imagine it will be changed to something else. All this fierce debating could be done then. Why don't we just give the policy a chance, and if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. Simple as that. Just take a step back and think about what it is everyone is arguing about. I will say, that in my opinion, Hermione Bagwa has *nothing* on this discussion.


    Firstly, the issue of being on the 'online' list for an hour after logging off we actually have no control over. Even if we all agreed it was a terrible, terrible thing, there isn't a scrap we could do other than send an email to Zerosleep which would then go in line behind the hundreds of more pressing issues and technical difficulties he has to fix.

    Secondly, when looking for an online mod, one would hope that a user would have the smarts to click the "Mods" section of the "Users online" list so as to filter out the VIPs.
  9. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    "Secondly, when looking for an online mod, one would hope that a user would have the smarts to click the "Mods" section of the "Users online" list so as to filter out the VIPs."

    Another sensational reason imo why mods "on holiday" should be dropped to VIP :)
  10. Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 6
    Whose Hermione Bagwin?

    My mistake then Dingo. I was under the impression that it was SOP for mods to be demoted back then as many of them did just that when they went on vacation. I guess that died when those mods all left for various reasons and that would explain how that came to an end. Hopefully we can now get that to be SOP instead of a few individuals doing it for personal reasons.
  11. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7

    the MS party line on that one is that it's to avoid PMs or Comms threads entitled "why was Mod X demoted?"

    Not saying it's a problem, just stating it's the party line.
  12. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Well, you could have every mod change their colors to green when they are about to log off for the night. They can only use their mod colors when they are signed in and active. It'd greatly reduce the chances of someone PMing a mod who logged off for the night (and isn't the point of the green colors so that they don't get PM'd in an emergency or something?). How far is the MS willing to go to ensure there is never any sort of issue?

    How bad is the "why was modX demoted?" situation anyways? There is, at most, one Comms thread a month, and maybe two or three PMs. I'm willing to bet there is at least one PM per day sent to a mod who appears on the Users Online page but just signed off, yet nothing seems to be done about that - perhaps because it really isn't that important, but for some reason, the two or three PMs and one thread per month is.
  13. Dark_Jedi_Kenobi Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2004
    star 5
    I think she was the female waitress in Dex's Diner, who became the subject of debate when she was included in a JCC Banner. Here's a quote from a thread in JCC a little while back.



    Perhaps in addition to green colors, vacationing mods should have a standard title, like one similar to Darth-Stryphe's.


    "I am sorry, but this mod is temporarly unavailable"


    Not perfect, but it could help clarify things.

  14. Grand_Admiral_Grant Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 6
    YodaJeff, so in other words, you dont necessarily disagree with the new rule, but feel that the issue of mods logging off for the night (and the fact that that it cant be seen anywhere) is a bigger problem and deserves a similar solution?

    In that case I suggest to give the new away policy a fair chance, see how it works and perhaps if the administration (or others for that matter) shares your concerns, focus on the issue you bring up next. No need to torpedo a policy because you feel another issue should have been addressed first. I think if you judged this new policy on its merits alone, you'll recognise the benifits and see that that it can only improve things.
  15. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Vacationing mods already did change their titles. That is one (of the many) reasons why this new rule seems like a waste... mods on vacation were already doing numerous things to point out that fact, but a vast minority of JCers were too lazy or stupid to click the mod's profile and see that they weren't demoted.

    You're missing my point.

    My point isn't that something needs to be done for mods logging off for the night. My point is that it's pointless to try to cover every possible scenario. There is a larger probability of someone PMing a mod who just logged off, but it would be a stupid waste of time to have mods change their colors every time they log in or out. This rule does absolutely nothing to better the JC, it just removes one or two threads or PMs from confused users per month. Mods already typically changed their colors (to black or red) and their titles when they took vacations. This rule was created because a select few users had a panic attack and did not bother to read the mod's title or look at their userlevel in their profile prior to freaking out and starting a thread or PMing someone asking why ModX was demoted.

    Technically, no, I do not disagree with having a standardized procedure for mods on vacation... if such a procedure actually existed. The MS does not seem to have a clear consensus on when/why mods take the green color. Some are saying that if you are able to log in once per day, then you aren't "on vacation". It seems like the discussion in the MS was along the lines of "Hey, we should do this", "I suppose", "It won't hurt anything", "Whatever, doesn't matter to me", etc. Was there any sort of thought or discussion put into this? Were the majority in favor of it, or was it the brainchild of a couple mods, and the rest couldn't care less? An argument was that "It's too much of a hassle to VIP and un-VIP people", yet changing someone's userlevel is as easy as changing colors or a title. There also is the point that DA brought up: "if you have mod powers attached to your account then you should respond to a request for help even if you ARE on holiday."

    Oh, is NYCityGurl on vacation? She has green colors, but her title does not say anything about it. Tsk tsk.
  16. Grand_Admiral_Grant Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 6
    Find the inconsistency in this phrase...

  17. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    DA's demotion argument has some merit. The answer of green while on vacation is a simple one thrown out there and we'll see how it works. We're discussing the demotion aspect now in MS.
  18. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    And that is the root issue: it seems like an announcement was made prior to everyone fully discussing all of the options and possibilities. Even discussing it in a Comms thread prior to making an announcement would have opened it up for discussion from all members of the JC.
  19. George_Roper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    Vacationing mods already did change their titles. That is one (of the many) reasons why this new rule seems like a waste... mods on vacation were already doing numerous things to point out that fact, but a vast minority of JCers were too lazy or stupid to click the mod's profile and see that they weren't demoted.

    I like this ^. I like it so much I propose that we take it a step further do away with colours for mods and VIPs. The Million Colours Game winner will of course still receive the ability to choose colours. If users are to lazy or stupid to look at the the header to see who their mods are, then they don't deserve to know who they are. And if a mod from another forum is briefly covering in a particular forum and, for example, warns a user to stop breaking the TOS, then if the user is too lazy or stupid to look at the area where a mod's title would be, and they choose to ignore the mod, then they deserve to be banned. And if they are too stupid of lazy to open up a Comms thread to find out who the VIPs are, then they don't deserve to know who they are. I find it insulting that you mods wish to use colours to differentiate between mods and regular users, mods who are on vacation and VIPs, and mods not on vacation and mods who are on vacation, etc.

    My point isn't that something needs to be done for mods logging off for the night. My point is that it's pointless to try to cover every possible scenario.

    I don't think they are trying to cover every possible scenario. I think they are attempting to make it clearer from first glance as to who is a VIP and who is a mod on vacation. Green instead of red. It isn't that Earth shattering of a change. It really isn't necessary to conduct extensive analysis as to the benefit to be derived from such an switch. I understand that the good old days were swell, but I much prefer walking uphill on only one leg of a journey as opposed to 'both ways'.
  20. Grand_Admiral_Grant Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 6
    This has been done:

    Katya_Jade posted (6/14 in the Mod Squad Update):

    />
    />
  21. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Hmm, I must have missed that update, or at least missed that part of the update. I would appreciate discussions in their own threads, since MS Updates are full of other information and "good update" posts, making it hard to discuss any one specific topic. But, since it at least was mentioned, I suppose I can't complain too much.

    I realize the green colors aren't going to really "hurt" anything, but I also don't see it as value-added. That's just my opinion, and the reason things are discussed is to get various opinions.
  22. sidious618 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2003
    star 6
    This thread needs to be saved so we can show it to al who posted in it.

    I'm pretty sure all of them will deny making these posts.
  23. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    DarthSapient posted:

  24. Demoted to VIP and have MS access removed for security reasons

  25. Change username to bold and green with no highlight. Use no other style.

  26. Edit your title indicating the reason you're away

  27. No forum header changes are required in terms of removing or editing your name

  28. The mod who will be away will create a thread in his or her forum(s) stating they'll be away and for how long

  29. If you're around and posting (with the exception of MS and private forums) Do Not Go Green.

  30. />

    FYI, the new policy compiled and set out in MS./>/>
  31. sidious618 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2003
    star 6
    They're all good except for this one:

    Edit your title indicating the reason you're away

    That's nobody's business.
  32. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    That can be as simple as "Away". It doesn't have to state specifically, "I'm in the Bahamas", or even "I'm on vacation". Just something stating you're gone, hence green.
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