ANNOUNCEMENT: Posting in basher/gusher threads is a bannable offense

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by NathanDahlin, Oct 27, 2001.

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  1. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Discussion is more fecund when opinions differ. Differing opinions, in addition to raising the quality of discussion, breed dissent, and at times, anger. This anger sometimes spills over into threads, which is regrettable, but it is also inevitable.

    Flaming happens, but peters out, and then discussion continues. This policy will catch genuinely offending threads, but will also catch legitimate discussion as well. The sole remaining Edit thread, for example, is an area that is often ripe with trolling newbies on both sides of the fence, but we've managed to keep it civil for nearly 2000 posts. Under the new policy, when the next round of newbie trolls come cycling through (there are a few new arrivals now, in fact), it could be locked, or the regulars banned. That would be inherently unjust, and is now plausible with this policy.

    I am afraid that this policy was enacted before it was thought through and the consequences realized.

    Besides, basher/gusher conflict is inevitable, and even "official policies" won't stop them. A snowball lasts a long time in Hell if you put a little hat on it.
  2. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    <<sigh>>

    It's already begun. The line-by-line, word-by-word, letter-by-letter, angstrom of celluoid-by-angstrom of celluloid, +++++-by-+++++ in Spanish, +++++-by-+++++ in French, +++++-by-+++++ in Swahili backwards minus all the e's threads are back.

    Soon, they'll be all that remain.

    Won't that be fun.

    :mad:
  3. GasCabbie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 4
    From what I understood from IP's and Nate's posts, this policy isn't as radical as it may seem. They're saying "play nice," and everyone's crying "riot."

    I would align myself as a gusher for this new policy. :D

    ..I mean... :eek:
    (joke)
  4. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    I was going to agree with hawk, until he started dissing TPM again. ;) :D

  5. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    I feel really sorry for the newbie that comes here in a months time, after this thread has dropped out of sight, pages and pages back.
  6. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    I've been thinking about this thread.

    I think that instead of references to facism, maybe references to Kafka would have been more appropriate. Because I for one have no clue what the new policy actually is.



  7. Texapocalypse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2001
    star 1
    NathanDahlin,

    That is your decision. But since the punishment is so severe, could you please clearly define what a "basher" or "gusher" thread is, so we can be sure not to break the rules.

    I don't spend a whole lot of time on this board so I'm not clear on what the definition of those terms are.

    -Texapocalypse
  8. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    He cannot clearly define what that is. So it will come down to his opinion. So basically, we could be banned for up to a month if Nathan misinterprets a comment or purpose of a thread. Considering I was recently banned for a joke thread, I am very concerned that things will become ridiculously sensitive around here.

    Banning the gushing and bashing threads is like banning the punches from boxing. It defeats the purpose of having a forum to discuss a movie.
  9. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Good call, Darth23. This seems to be straight from The Trial.

    "Like a dog!"
  10. TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    TravCon12, now see what you've done? You've ruined it for all of us!! :p
  11. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I hope that bashers like TrueJedi and Duckman won't be banned. Those guys may cross the line sometimes, but they provide a constant source of amusement.
    For me, at least :)
  12. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    Duckman's not a basher!

    What R U Talkin about?
  13. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Hawk,
    Perhaps you should go read my post on page two and then ND's response a few posts later. I think this may dispell some of your fears.
  14. TPMrules23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 5
    Calm down, guys, I think all NathanD means is that if a gusher goes into the sanctuary and tries to stir up tons of debate, he can be banned or vice versa.
  15. MORMEGIL Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 2
    I'm thinkin this is a good rule. Reason: no more fighting. It's dumb. This will keep peeps nice when they talk, for one thing, and when one feels the urge to get nasty, one will think twice.

    I would also request that we put a stop to line by line, word by word, and - for the love of god - letter by letter threads. I mean, why.....? What purpose does it serve? We learn nothing new. We feel nothing new. We think nothing new. It's brainless mind candy. The sort of thing you want to do when you can't do anything else, like being in a coma, but awake.
  16. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    I'm amazed that so many people that don't like one single aspect of TPM, actually spend a couple hours each day, posting here.

    Whenever I went into the Basher Sanctuary, I got the sense that they liked hating TPM, and thinking of anyone who liked it as being absolutely delusional.

    Look, I can understand why Gushers would hate Bashers, and think *they* are the delusional ones, but they actually like TPM and give their reasons why.

    Any reason as to why TPM "sucked" has been debunked, or in the case of how something played out, and is inherent in how the person "tasted" the movie, it's been defended with positive explainations, often taking into account the fact that we have 2 more movies in this trilogy, and obviously, they are going to provide answers to certain raised questions, and fulfill any foreshadowing and situations seen in The Phantom Menace.

    I realize that some bashers like *some* of TPM, but is there a point in spending so much time here, repeating over and over exactly what those things are that you hate?

    I want to know why some of you are here. I know why Gushers are here. We like the movie. And most of us don't find it perfect either. We see it's flaws. Just like we see the OT's flaws. It's still our beloved Star Wars.
  17. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Look, I can understand why Gushers would hate Bashers, and think *they* are the delusional ones, but they actually like TPM and give their reasons why.

    And many bashers give their reasons for why they dislike TPM. For example, look for my upcoming ANH/TPM pacing comparison thread (as soon as I have more than ten minutes at a time to sit and actually write out a comparison).

    But I think, Sturm, that your above post, while not really inflammatory, is the exact kind of thing Nathan is trying to avoid, because it leads to basher/gusher arguments, generic ones, not ones like "well, this aspect of the film sucked (or) ruled." By asking why basher post here, you're bound to get many good reasons from many bashers, but then someone will say something, someone's feelings will get hurt, a flame war will start and people will get banned. Happens EVERY TIME WITHOUT FAIL.
  18. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    So what... no divergent opinions now? Anyone who engages in anything more spicy than a flat, vanilla, noncomittal opinion on TPM or SW will be banned?

    So much for exchange and debate of differing opinions, eh?

    Kinda feels like the future society in Demolition Man a bit, doesn't it? (Well, I'm NOT using the three seashells when I hit the loo... understand?)
  19. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    Hot dogs

    Armour hot dogs...
  20. IronParrot Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 5
    Look: Imagine the TPM forum full of threads like this.

    "Fifty reasons why TPM sucks"
    "Fifty reasons why TPM rules"
    "TPM Basher Sanctuary"
    "TPM Gusher Sanctuary"
    "Why Jar Jar is the worst SW character ever"
    "Why Jar Jar is the Chosen One"
    "Why CG sucks"
    "Why hawk's Why CG Sucks thread sucks"
    "What was Lucas smoking?"
    "What was Go-Mer smoking?"
    "TPM Defense Force"
    "Phantom Edit Defense Force"
    "Nathan's New Policy Defense Force"

    Look at the implications. Sweeping generalizations. Clique structures that degrade into chat threads. Bigoted value judgments likely to incite conflict. And worst of all, redundancy.

    Instead of threads about value judgments, in which you present specific issues as evidence: why not have threads about the specific issues themselves and make value judgments within?

    I don't think that's asking too much. You can still bash and gush about the movie - just don't make that your primary purpose. Discussing the issues are primary, and value judgments are secondary.

    Does anybody really hate every darn thing about TPM?

    Does anybody really love every darn thing about TPM?

    That was rhetorical. Don't answer me.
  21. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    And many bashers give their reasons for why they dislike TPM. For example, look for my upcoming ANH/TPM pacing comparison thread (as soon as I have more than ten minutes at a time to sit and actually write out a comparison).

    But that's just it. If someone hates 90% of this movie, why are they spending so much time in this particular forum, saying over and over why they hate it?

    Look, during the first week of the release, I already knew pretty much half the reasons why the bashers hated it. I still know them now. I think pretty much every single possible niche to this film has been taken apart and ripped to shreds.

    Personally, if I hated it, and said every possible reason why I hated it, over the course of say, a few months, I'd be done. I wouldn't have to say anything else. I'd move onto another area of discussion, or go to Classic trilogy and talk about the things I like ( which is a lot more constructive and positive - something that I think most people would rather see, bashers included. )

    If someone asked me what I thought about TPM, or if I provided a comment on an ongoing situation, I'd say, "I didn't like it." If someone asked why, I'd give my reasons in a somwhat consise form.

    I would not be spending hours in this forum, every single month, debating why it sucks and trying to convert people to see my ways. It's a waste of time.

    I really don't spend much time in this forum. It's a dark, dark place, full of fear and hate, and I'd rather spend more time in the more care-free places like Literature and the JCC.

    Even PSA is a paradise compared to how this place gets at times.

    Though when I say this, I don't mean to offend any of the admins such as Nathan, who oversee this dark side cave.
  22. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Iron Parrot, exaggerating the issue doesn't solve anything. There are rules in place to stop members becomming the focus of a thread. A handful of rules to stop flamming and anything illegal or irrelevant is all that is needed.
  23. Raz Zaphon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2000
    star 4
    Sturm Antilles took the words out of my mouth. TFN should have named these the "Fan Forums". That way if you're not a fan, you would have no place in the forum. However it only seems that this forum is here only to express your opinion on TPM whether or not you're a fan. That's why I don't post here.
  24. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    I think this new policey is a lot less stricter than it sounds. As far as I understand it, threads that are designed to incite a reaction from either bashers or gushers are banned, like threads along the lines of, 'All bashers stink of poo, and gushers mums are bigger than bashers mums', aren't allowed. Where as threads like, 'The pacing in The Phantom Menace is all wrong', or 'The Phantom Menace has one of the most inventive story-lines so far in the saga', are alright, so long that you can support your opinion with evidence, or explain why you think that. I might have got it wrong, but that's the way I understand it. I think that's perfectly fair, and hopefully should make us act a great deal nicer to each other, as after all, we're all fans of Star Wars, aren't we?

  25. MORMEGIL Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 2
    Oakssteve, you took the words right out of my mouth.

    And to whomever wants to claim that so-called bashers are not fans needs to reevaluate. The operative question is: why the hell are people like bashers around here at all? Answer: we ARE Star Wars fans, and want to be able to express opinions about how TPM was a disappointment. The reason behind that would be the upcoming movies, and talking about what we hope to see made better. Hope that clarifies.
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