Announcing the JC Focus Group

Discussion in 'Communications' started by KnightWriter, Oct 17, 2003.

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  1. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    dude, polls are out of the question. We have had extended discussion on how easily they can be abused, and besides this ISN'T a democracy, and we dont have a right to vote on everything.

    EDIT: And we are granted the right to express our views. nothing says the mods have to listen to us.
  2. Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 5
    I read the opening post.

    and you didn't read any after that. therefore you have no idea what we're talking about, do you? just from reading your posts, i'm baffled as to how in the hell all that relates to what we've been discussing in this thread, which is the details of the system presented.

    until you clue yourself in by reading this thread, your posts are just derailing the thread. and please stop doing that.
  3. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Okay, I've made edits to my posts, please re-read them.
    A sock can't vote in a poll if the board was private and then there was a way to make it public after the vote was done, so users could see how the voting went and the comments.
    It's too bad that the system that runs the Jedi Council isn't designed to play "cyber-government". (That ought to tell you something there? ;))
    If the system allowed for it, you could have a PUBLICLY READ board that had PRIVATE PARTICIPATION, then.

    Second, I prefaced my 1st post here with...
    Considering I've been posting on this site for a long time (If not very much) and lurking on it more than I post, let me add my 2 cents... It may help... Excuse me if it's redundant.

    See that last comment?
    Excuse me if it's redundant.

    All I did was offer my views, my experience and an opinion.
    I felt I was actually "COMMUNICATING" here, it was not my intent to do anything but that.
    If you didn't like what I posted or if you felt it was REDUNDANT/IRRELEVANT, then IGNORE it.

    I don't need a hostile attitude.
    I don't need "Did you read all of the posts?"

    Okay? :)
    Now, I've said my piece, I hope it was useful, if it wasn't sorry, then I wasted mine and everyone else's time.

    You guys can make this as complicated or easy as you want. I was just offering my comments as a way to help streamline things or to bring in new ideas.
    Sorry, that it seems everyone is so touchy around here. I'm aware that the software and the "political system" around here has bugs and I was trying to help you guys out.




  4. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Dude. I suggest reading the entire thread before even attempting a response. Reading the first and last few posts simply doesn't cut it. If you refuse to do that, you'll likely make a statement that was already addressed 25 posts ago. If you don't have anything new to contribute, then don't post until you do.

    See that last comment?
    Excuse me if it's redundant.


    Why should we excuse you? If you believe it's redundant, then don't post. It's not our job to tell you that.

    All I did was offer my views, my experience and an opinion.

    What views? What experience? I haven't seen one post from you that I could consider insightful. Do you honestly consider your '98 registration date 'experience'? Puh-leaze. Seems to me that you just got your feet wet in the Comms. forum.

    I don't need a hostile attitude.
    I don't need "Did you read all of the posts?"


    Hello. Get a clue. You brought this upon yourself. Yes, read all the posts and then formulate a fresh statement. If you think I'm being hostile, tough. It could be a lot worse. If you want to stay in this discussion I highly suggest you pay closer attention.
  5. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Seems to me, some of you guys aren't commenting on what I posted, that's fine.
    I thought if my post didn't add anything, it would be ignored.

    Continue to waste your time berating me.
    It's your call. You complained about my "derailment", but you continue to do so.

    All you guys had to do was ignore what I posted.

    My apologies to anyone else that wishes to discuss this topic and wastes minutes of their life reading all this tripe, my posts included.

    I won't continue to post here. I said my piece. :)



  6. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    If you want a opinion that's not colored by bias, then it would be best to be random users from non-affected forums (IF the issue is specifically for a certain forum), going in to discuss issues that they had no prior knowledge of.

    But if the FG topic is, "Ways to make Lit a better forum." why would want posters who aren't affiliated with the Lit forum? You would want people who are in there posting and active every day.

    My thoughts have gone round and round on this, and I think if executed right, it could work. I do think it needs to be a private forum, for the main reason not of giving people privacy, but just to keep things smooth. If its an open forum, even with the strictest rules, people are still going to mess with things. Trolls, and newbies who don't know what's going on. Making it private, would just make everything as a whole run smooth. But, as an add on to that, it shouldn't be totally private. The suggestion was made earlier that after a discussion is done, the thread be copied in its entirity someplace else, where everyone can read it. I like that, or something like it.

    I think the main problem people are having with this, is that they are seeing through eyes that have expereinced the mod squad and the AC and their automatically uses that as a basis when they think private forum.

    I think if its kept as a sort of, open privacy, things will go smoothly. I like it, I think its something that will give good, results for individual forums. I'm not sure how much could be done in it that discuss any board wide issues, but for individual forums, I think this will show good results.
  7. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I don't want to waste anymore time, but just humor me... :)

    In response to your comment Darth Dark Helmet.
    (Let's say the JC was run by software that supported this. Let's say the FG was a PRIVATE BOARD, but with PUBLIC VIEWING capabilites AND a POLLING system that was private. Only FG members could vote.)
    No socks because the random users would only access their poll and topic.
    --------------------------------------------
    Why not make a thread in LIT first "How to make a better LIT forum.".

    Take those responses, compile them.

    Create the necessary poll, invite a cross section of users, NOT just LIT forum regulars. (My reasoning is that people migrate from section to section. Today's COLLECTING regular may decide to check LIT out tomorrow.)

    These 12 random, anonymous users, then look over the choices (And necessary explainations) and vote.
    After the vote, they can give explainations about their vote.

    You can have 3 rounds of these groups, same poll different users, with their votes and explainations.

    Say the top 10 votes are chosen for LIT after being approved by the Administration.
    Would there be a problem?
    --------------------------------------------
    Understand, I realize that this JC Focus Group system has been announced.
    I'm just saying that if the software was capable, you could have a very streamlined system that gets the results needed without
    making some folks nervous.

    I don't necessarilly feel that there needs to be weeks of discussions, after the initial thread in the relevant forum, it can have an expiration date of a week or so, then the polling system goes into action.
    The specific boards get their say, but they don't choose what's best for them because everything is out of their and their Mods control in the final vote.

    Nothing is perfect, if someone says there is a bias they could, but the votes would have to have been made publicly by anonymous users, obviously the Mod would have a list, but don't let the Mod for Lit. pick the FG people.

    I mean the system I'm describing in my hypothetical example can change as necessary, I just feel that things can be easier and that I'm sure that there must be the necessary technology that could make it work.

    Anyway, thanks for the comment.
    I know you guys will do want you want anyway... :)
  8. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    I think, finally, this well help the mods understand the users' point of view, and its a good idea in that. I applaud you for it. Whoever gets in, think of it this way, you're making choices that will affect the whole JC. May the force be with you.
  9. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    We've done this in the Writers Resource forum of Fan Fiction and have had great succses (IMNSHO, even thought I started the blasted thing). A forum and its feel is made up by its USERS, and encouraging people to participate is the best way to go...
  10. Sara_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 7
    This will be a little more different though. I really hope this will happen in fan fiction. It could help folks that don't normally speak up about the forums to do so and on a much more steady basis. :)
  11. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    Someone mentioned people volunteering merely for the purpose of furthering their JC "political position". I think this problem will take care of itself, as we will be able to see who is there to really contribute merely by the discussion.
  12. deltron_zero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    how is having a tool that helps people get their input across self-important?

    Certainly, when you put it that way it does seem like a very erroneous label. But it's not the tool itslef or the idea of having such a tool that strikes me as self-important. Rather it's the structure in which it's being suggested that the tool be implemented. I had the same problem with the AC, and you know that. The idea that these discussions need to take place in a private setting and only among certain individuals is what comes across to me as self-important and a completely unnecessary precaution for this Star Wars messageboard. We're not talking about matters of life and death here, we're talking about Star Wars, and how to make an online community of Star Wars fans the most fun for everyone involved. Sure, all of the issues being discussed in these focus groups won't effect all of us, but all of them will effect some of us and some of them will effect all of us. For me, that's a good enough reason for us all to at least have the opportunity to know what's going on.

    it's for the purpose of maximizing quality discussion, which can't be done in public forums.

    I've said before that I do understand the desire to have more intimate and focused discussions in a smaller group of people. I don't have a problem with that.

    and as for the privacy issue, the privacy is going to be a strong motivator for people to use the FG to it's full potential.

    Okay, why excatly? I know that you're baffled by the fact that I can't grasp this, but maybe some more concrete examples would help here. Because you know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking that the people who will most likely be invited to these focus groups will the people who have shown themselves to be the most capable of expressing themselves and their concern for issues that effect the JC in the public forums. I understand this idea that people will be more open in a private setting, but if you have say 10 focus groups going on at once, and maybe 8 people in each that's hardly a one on one environment. And most people here are used to the idea of having what they write read by hundreds of people, I just honestly don't think this is a big deal.

    everyone is so worried about knowing every single little detail of what goes on beyond closed doors and thinking they just HAVE TO be told. maybe THAT is being 'selfish' and 'self-important'.

    Maybe you're right. But just like you Pie, I'm only arguing for what I see being best for the JC as a whole. Yes, I like to know what's going on. Yes, I would like to know that there is a diversity of opinions represented in these focus groups. And if I might actually have something to add to a discussion, I would like the opportunity to do so. And yes, that is probably a bit self-important of me, but I would also like the same opportunity for every other member of this community.

    have you ever pm'ed a mod and discussed something jc related with them? why didn't you discuss it with them in public?

    Once or twice long ago, for very personal reasons, and issues that I wouldn't want posted in a forum of focus groups any more than I would want them posted in the JCC. I don't think these sorts of personal issues should be what these focus groups are for.
  13. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I think this seems like a better idea than the AC, to be sure, though I am still skeptical. Until I either see results of this or take place in a discussion, I will remain skeptical. But all in all, I think this could work if utilized properly.
  14. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    Just for all your information, I blew up the AC. It's gone now. Sort of.
  15. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Just for all your information, I blew up the AC.

    We are currently sorting through the rubble and trying to identify bodies. We vow to catch the filthy terrorist who committed this unprovoked attack.

    Be on the lookout for an old, misspelled wizard. He is considered armed and dangerous. Do not attempt to apprehend him yourself, but report him to the proper authorities.

    Kimball Kinnison
  16. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    [points]

    He went that-a-way!
  17. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Kimball...
    "We vow to catch the filthy terrorist who committed this unprovoked attack."

    Oh, I'm pretty sure I know the identity.
  18. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    Thanks for the warning. My Favorite Boards list looked so small, suddenly, but I didn't know what it was until a few hours ago :-\

    You forgot something, though <--
  19. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
  20. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4

    Delete the titles.

    Oh, how will I cope without this mark of e-kudos and the effect it will have on my e-poltical career?

    Woe is me!

    UKS
  21. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    I shall sweet talk the mods and reign as Stalin...no, wait...Hitler....no...wait...
  22. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    "Oh, how will I cope without this mark of e-kudos and the effect it will have on my e-poltical career?"

    I guess you'll have to wait until the FG limps into existence to repair your bruised e-ego. ;)

    Are any of the current AC members (with exception to PiaS who was never an AC member but was admitted to their private forum anyway) being given permanent positions on the FG or something? ?[face_plain]
  23. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Are any of the current AC members (with exception to PiaS who was never an AC member but was admitted to their private forum anyway) being given permanent positions on the FG or something?

    That's just it. There are no permanent positions in the FG. FGs (there can be more than one at a time) are formed on an ad hoc basis bringing in those people who are needed for the discussion (much like Pias was brought into the AC after he proposed an early form of this to several mods via PM). Once the specific FG is over, the members' access is removed to that forum and the FG is considered ended.

    Kimball Kinnison
  24. SithDewd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2000
    star 5
    I have read through the majority of the thread, and to me this seems like a plausible idea. My one question is how will member selection take place? If the point is to receive a consensus of the board membership then a process needs to be decided upon to accomplish this. If the selection process is left up to the sole discretion of the moderation then there exists a possibility for bias. If the selection process is too broad then nothing will be accomplished. Hopefully this plan will get off to a good start.

  25. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    That sounds good then. :)

    In fact, it seems like the AC has been more or less operating as an FG for awhile now because the AC I knew was shut to anyone aside from mods and elected AC members.
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