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Lit Anti-Alien bias, as an EU invention was it a good or bad idea ?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by fett 4, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Ok so the idea of an Anti-Alien bias being part of Imperial culture was an EU invention from back in the early 90's.

    Anyway as an idea I wondered what people thought of it generally did they see it as a good idea (I forget who invented it) that made the bad guys more bad or did they see it simply as bad with the rather obvious Nazi allegory.

    Also does it still work with the PT pretty much contradicting it.


    So what do people think
     
  2. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Anti-alien bias is, and should always be, an inherent part of the universe. A universe in which humans didn't discriminate against the obviously foreign and alien would be exceedingly difficult to take seriously.
     
    instantdeath likes this.
  3. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    The movies make it very easy to assume such a thing; with the only Aliens working for the Empire being hired guns that aren’t trusted by the completely male and human Military.

    Just because Palpatine has Mas Amedda working for him? o_O
     
  4. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    You don't see much of him after the Empire is established. Palps hated all, but played up hating aliens because he had a lot of racist human supporters.
     
  5. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    This guy rejects your premise.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 2, 2000
    Hmm the OT I think was more real life than anything. Bluntly it was a lot of time and effort putting loads of random extras in make up. Stormtrooper costumes were probably easier to make

    Darth Maul from TPM, He trained him up to be his apprentice.

    If you go for the CW you have Cad Bane who he deals with direct as opposed to through Dooku.

    Palpatine strikes me as a guy who is who just wants to rule regardless of what species it is
     
  7. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    I like the idea of High Human Culture, a lot, but to be honest it's not like the Rebel Alliance, as portrayed in the movies, is that alien-friendly. Rogue Squadron is as WASP as you can get.
     
  8. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    I imagine their use of aliens was more a matter of practicality than any sort of desire for inclusion. With next to no support in the Core Worlds, they'd have had little choice but to rely on numerous (and expendable) alien assets from the Outer Rim.
     
  9. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    The rebels at yeast have Chewie, and their forces in ROTJ have a noticeable number of aliens, including some in a lead position.

    ....Though they aren't nearly as diverse as Jabba's forces (who still have quite a few humans as well), or the Cantina....which has some strong implications I think. Admittedly, the PT does counter this somewhat with a very diverse senate, jedi order, and heads of businesses, but still - as others have said, it is not something made up whole cloth by the EU but something very noticeable about the OT.
     
  10. DelRiego

    DelRiego Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002
    On the other hand, the Separatists being 99% non-human might have led to a galaxy-wide distrust of aliens, regardless of allegiance. In the OT indeed it seems all aliens are criminals, lowlifes, primitives, etc (perhaps except the MonCal)

    Would have been disastrous that the Rebels and the Empire had started peace talks highlighting what they agreed upon in order to settle their disagreements [face_nail_biting]. Could have been a good Infinities story though.
     
  11. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Where they are also, notably, directly in the line of fire and the most likely to be killed first. Mon Mothma? Crix Madine? Nowhere to be found!
     
  12. DelRiego

    DelRiego Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Operation Alien Shield!
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
  14. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    As others have mentioned the adoption of a speciesist platform by the Galactic Empire is pretty well established in the OT itself, though the EU certainly came out and codified it formally. Overall I think the move was a good one.

    While budget and availability were likely the most relevant factors into why the Empire turned out to be so white, male, and British, doing that also presents a certain potency of visual effect. By making all the Imperials look the same it reinforces the image of the Empire as a monolithic, soulless entity that ruthlessly crushes all those values like freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and the rest. It also helps to visually differentiate the important characters (ie. Vader, the Emperor) by having them look different from the masses of minions.

    Codifying something like Human High Culture, and a strongly sexist tradition alongside it, to the Empire provides a logical backdrop for this set of aesthetic choices. It also, for the most part, fits a broad set of social values held across the Star Wars galaxy. Star Wars takes place a long time ago, and it may help to think of the social systems as literally those of a previous time period (mid to late 19th century seems to fit best).
     
  15. DARTH_MU

    DARTH_MU Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 9, 2005
    It worked great until apparently Imperials are people too and the Imperial remnant citizens actually liked living under the so called speciest, dictatorship.
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    That might have been because Pellaeon repealed most of the speciesist policies.
     
  17. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    I'm not so sure it was. Even back in the day when I was largely going off the OT itself, I never really saw this. I always saw:

    1) The Imperials using the Kubaz spy in ANH (at the time I always figured he was an alien directly working for the Empire)
    2) The Imperials using alien bounty hunters in ESB (and also note Piett disparages them not because they're alien but because they're bounty hunters)
    3) Yeah, the guard in ANH makes the "thing" comment, but Leia's also not too kind to Chewie in the first two movies. And no one's really nice to Threepio, even shutting him down mid-sentence, which I think is a pretty big violation of a sentient's rights.
    4) OTOH, the alien Rebels only show up in ROTJ. And even so, going just by the movie, there's no evidence that 'Bothans' are necessarily aliens. I never really thought they were before I got into the EU.

    It's also noteworthy I think that before WEG, most of the EU showed aliens being fine under the Empire. Marvel, Rokur Gepta, I think even that Ewoks episode with the mad scientist - if anything, aliens in the EU at that time were far more likely to work for the Empire than for the Rebels.

    I always wondered how things might have been different if the Mon Cal puppets in ROTJ didn't work, and ended up being replaced by Madine and other humans in the film.
     
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  18. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
    Yeah, I actually remember a point when I thought Bothans were some type of human.
     
  19. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Typical humanocentrism.
     
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  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The Rokur Gepta books (book 3: Lando Calrissian & the Starcave of Thonboka) had the Empire trying to massacre the Oswaft because they were perceived as a threat.

    Splinter of the Mind's Eye also showed the mistreatment of the natives of Mimban.
     
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  21. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah, remember that the Rebels didn't even acknowledge Chewbacca's contribution to Yavin. If we're just going by the movies, the Rebels are in a pretty poor light until Endor.
     
  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In the comic version of ANH, it says Chewie will get a medal- but he'll have to put it on himself since he's too tall for Leia to do so.
     
  23. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 2, 2012
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    When you live in the sort of galaxy where an entire species may consider you as "food", that is not an entirely unreasonable response.
     
  25. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah remember how we were talking about conclusions drawn from the OT?