ANTI ALIEN?The Sith?OR?Palpatine?

A new topic?not sure if it is relevant here, or in the OT Forum, or the ROTS forum?however will put it here for now. As usual if this idea has been done before please let me know and I shall lock?and if you could redirect please do.

My question concerns the Aliens?ie the galaxy wide species in general?not one specific species?.AND the Sith.

Now?THIS Thread:

Sith Timeline

?raised a curiosity, namely the comment made by LowRyder:

That's right - weren't the Sith originally a disgruntled splinter element of the Jedi?

Yup they were jedi who discovered the Dark side. They were not allowed o use thei new found powers. Because of this war broke out between the jedi. The dark side users were banished to a planet with primitive creatures called Sith. Over time the 2 groups became one.

NOW?.I was lead to believe that The Sith HATED Aliens with a passion, and with the possible exception of Darth Maul, there were NO Alien Sith?just Human. How would the human element of the Darkside join up with an alien element namely the Sith, if the human element Hated Aliens?

OR am I wrong?

Here is my Question: ARE the Sith Anti Alien bias?.or is PALPATINE Anti Alien?

If it?s The Sith?Why, and what caused them to hate any and all Aliens?

And if its Palpatine, and why and what caused him to hate all the Aliens?and WHY did he take on an Alien apprentice aka Darth Maul!?!?!?

A lot to think about?hope you will have a think and bring up some sound ideas and/or arguments for your ideas.

 

I think it goes on a Sith Lord to Sith Lord basis. *EU!* The Sith under Darth Malak in KOTOR are also anti-alien biased, but there have been other non-human SIth Lords (although none that I'm certain aboutcome to mind) *EU!*

Why? I don't know.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again until they finally shut me downalpatine isn't a bigot! He entrusted the future of the Sith to a Zabrak. nuff said. There were no aliens in the empire but there have been aliens in the Sith and Palpatine is a sith first and an imperial second. He also had alien government allies such as Mas Ammeda and Sly Moore.

The sith as a rule aren't bigoted and even under Malak's rule Yuthura, a twilek had an important posistion at the accademy. Indeed there are several species at the accademy. If i remember right the sith on Taris are the only rascists in the game and its possible they have been influenced by the local firebrand there. In kotor 2 Visas is an alien sith i think as well.

The original sith of course were aliens that interbred with exiled dark jedi.

Lastly I'm not even convinced the empire was rascist. Yeah they are all white men but so is the rebellion rank n' file in ANH. Its only in ESB that we see rebel women and only in ROTJ that we see blacks and asians and aliens in the alliance. Ultimately i think it would be too silly watching trandoshans and gammoreans speaking english and wearing imperial uniforms so they simplified it.

Oh, and i don't care what the eu says.

 

The whole Anti-Alien thing has only ever surfaced in EU material. It's never mentioned and directly contradicted in the films.

 

According to the novelisation of Revenge of the Sith, Dooku is anti-alien, or speciesist, because he dreams of serving an "Empire of Man." I imagine the Empire is also xenophobic, but I really doubt Sidious/Palpatine is.

Here's what Wikipedia says about it in it's Galactic Empire article:

The Empire and xenophobic racism
In the first three released Star Wars movies, almost all members of the Empire are portrayed as white British males speaking with a Received Pronunciation accent. This was done for both logistical reasons (much of the filming was done in Britain), and for dramatic reasons (as attested to by director Irvin Kershner, who even overdubbed a rebel who was played by a British actor to fit with this scheme). The exceptions are the stormtroopers who all have much the same intonation (non-British), and some Imperial officers in A New Hope that were played by Americans. In contrast most, though not all, of the main protagonists of the Rebel Alliance have American accents. The Rebel Alliance as shown in the movies seems to be comprised of a variety of human races and alien species. The reason for this is never revealed in the movies, but it led many fans and authors writing derivative works to theorize that the Empire was xenophobic. To American audiences, this polarity of accents and ideals between a mighty empire and a determined group of rebels reflects past American history, specifically the Revolutionary War.

In the Expanded Universe, the Empire emphasized human and, to a lesser extent, humanoid supremacy, with other alien species like Wookiees subject to slavery. Antislavery laws were repealed and legislation legalizing the persecution of nonhumans was passed. Peaceful demonstrations were dispersed using brute force, often killing and maiming thousands, as during the Ghorman Massacre. The planets of the Empire were no longer given a say in the government, but were now kept in line by the thousands of sector groups of the Imperial Starfleet, each containing at least twenty-four Imperator-class Star Destroyers and several thousand lesser ships. Disillusioned senators who had tried unsuccessfully to use legal means, and the time-honored system of checks and balances, now sought to end Palpatine?s rule through rebellion.

This explains why almost everyone on the side of the Empire in Episodes IV, V, and VI is human. It is believed by some that Palpatine's association with non-humans like Darth Maul in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace contradicts the idea that there is any humanoid bias on the part of Palpatine. However, since Palpatine was a Sith Lord, it is logical to assume that he would take advantage of talent wherever he could find it, as was the case with Darth Maul and Grand Admiral Thrawn. It so follows that while the Empire was unquestionably specist, there is little to suggest that the Emperor himself was. In fact, some facts of the Expanded Universe imply that the privy councilors and advisors that filled Palpatine's court and ran the Empire on a day-to-day basis were the specists, and applied "High Human Culture" on their own accord.

Wikipedia's Count Dooku/Darth Tyrnaus article contains this:

It is no coincidence that Dooku's puppets, the CIS, are almost all aliens, for Dooku is a speciesist who fully intends to use that factor to usher in a human-centric rule.

I pretty much agree with all that. Sidious wasn't speciesist, but Dooku and the Empire were.

 

The Empire is. The Sith and Palpatine only care about power. Nothing else.

 

The Empire is. The Sith and Palpatine only care about power. Nothing else.

I agree.

 

I think it's pretty clear that Palpatine prefers humans in charge of his Empire but as far as apprentices, the strongest one can be any species.

Maul was his man until Anakin came around. If he utterly hated all other species then Sly Moore and Mas Amedda would not have been his personal aides in the PT.

 

In the end Mas and Sly were eliminated as "loose ends" I believe. Whether that would have happened if they were human is up for debate. Sate Pestage is the only character I can think of that has been a long term aide to Palps, and has survived and gained power from being with Palpatine.

But I dont really believe Palps to be a speciest. He wouldnt care, and indeed had Maul as an apprentice.

 

KMC

i completely agree with that. it makes sense anyway from the idea that Lucas tried to draw parallels betweeen the empire and the Nazi regime.

For those who dont know, Stormtroopers were German soldiers. Also, Vaders helmet is inspired from the shape of German soldier helmets in the '40s

 

I'm not very big on the EU, so what I gather from the films is that the Empire was racist under Palps rule. We don't see very many aliens allied with either side so I think that Palps was forcefully using species for his own ends whether it be for technical reasons or in a manual labor kind of thing. That's going along with his baseing the empire on the Nazi regime. Also, Vader's helmet was based on Samuri armor despite any resemblance to Nazi stormtrooper helmets.

 

are you sure? i just watched Saving Private Ryan a couple days ago on TNT and the German helmets looked almost exactly like Vaders

 

i always thought the whole anti-alien thing was EU therfore, like all EU stuff, i never really counted it as being true. but anyway, the fact that maul was an alien contradicts and disproves any notion that the sith are anti-alien.

if you watch the documentaries on the "Bonus Materials" disc of the OT DVDs, either george or ralph maquarrie talk about vader's armor being based on samurai armor, with no mention of ze germans.

 

I'm not very big on the EU, so what I gather from the films is that the Empire was racist under Palps rule. We don't see very many aliens allied with either side so I think that Palps was forcefully using species for his own ends whether it be for technical reasons or in a manual labor kind of thing.

If you continue your line of reasoning, which you slightly did, the Rebels are racist too. In ANH Chewie is the only non human working w/the Rebels. Same in ESB. We didn't see Alien rebels until ROTJ. Actually the reason we don't see a bunch of Imperial Aliens in the OT is because it's cheaper to cast the extras as human instead of making masks and intricate customes for them. That's the main reason. Money and time.

That's going along with his baseing the empire on the Nazi regime. Also, Vader's helmet was based on Samuri armor despite any resemblance to Nazi stormtrooper helmets.

Actually, if you compare it to history, the Republic is more like the Roman Empire. Ceaser=Chancillor Senators=Senators. In both, the Chancillor/Ceaser and Senate controls everything, not the people.
Although, Palps rise to power is very similar to Hitlers: Create an emergency, gain direct control of the military, declare an Empire. However, we see none of the hatred for non humans in Palp's speeches that we do see in Hitler's speeches. Palp's offers an end to war. A war, as far as the public knows, that was started by the Seperatists, who are trying to tear apart a Republic that has stood for thousands of years. Apparently succeding(sp) from the Republic is a no-no. Palp's uses current facts to his advantage and offers peace and stability for all. People who have been war torn for 3 years like that kind of promise. Hitler used hate of the Jewish, and lots of others, and the economic depression brought on by the Allied powers after WW I to stoke the patriotic fires of the Germans and started the war. Palps is similar to Hitler but not quite as much as most people think.

 

The Sith were portrayed as being generally anti-alien in KOTOR.

 

I usually don't believe in the anti-alien idea for the Galactic Empire proposed in the EU. The reason why the Empire is mostly human is because they are the most common species in the galaxy and also that means that the Empire is not connected or affiliated to any one species or planet. The same with the clonetroopers/stormtroopers. It is also easier to feed, clothe and have medical facilities for a single species or one that is "humanoid" at least. As for victimizing alien species (aka: The Wookies) I think depends more on their political afiliation or resources.

As for the Sith I don't believe they have any prejudice against a race. There where probably many alien species who where Sith Lords, Apprentices, Followers and Dark Jedi both male and female alike. The Sith are just a dark counterpart to the Jedi Order.

As for Palpatine himself... hardly anti-alien. Perhaps his colleagues are but he is definitley not. Emperor Palpatine has no need to be prejudice of anyone especially if they can serve his needs and follow him. Darth Maul is a canon example since he is "humanoid" though obviously not human. Same goes with Grand Admiral Thrawn in the EU. Not to mention he was Chancellor of the Galactic Republic for thirteen years and a Senator before that so obviously he would need to get along with other species. Palpatine was too clever to consider something as petty as racism unless it furthured his goals. Personally however I don't think he despised non-human species.

The Galactic Empire seems more like Ancient Rome (a little more evil) or the Soviet Union then a racist dictatorship like the Nazi Reich. Palpatines way of running things was more machivillian than facist.

 

the empire s soldiers and genrals looked to me like soviets...

 

You're most likely right about the time and money issues, but I have this impression of the Empire being very Nazi-ish because of its being based on Hitler's regime and what we know about it. I gotta run. Finish this up later...

 

so, the whole stormtrooper reference.... not really subtle, only thing that can possibly refer to back when STAR WARS(ANH) was made, is to the nazi ss, there weren't any other storm troopers in those days



...and the general's costuming also clearly looked nazi, maybe a little like the 50s propaganda film version of a communist, but nothing like the real life version