[Anti-dp4m] What If Jacen Solo Really Is Right About Things?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by dp4m, Oct 28, 2005.

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  1. dp4m Chosen One

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    For those who accuse me of having some sort of anti-Jacen bias when I'm really arguing a pro-Lucas bias (hard duality, non-Potentium, Evil == Evil, etc.), it's not to say I don't have thoughts about the universe which don't serve my arguments.

    Here's one of them.

    Let's suppose for a moment, that Luke had slept with a bunch of women and all of them were Force sensitive. Hypothetically, of course...

    The first became a Dark Lady of the Sith.
    The second became incapable of touching the Light Side after being an old-sk00l Jedi Knight of the old Order.
    The third had used Luke to begin with and was a member of a pacifistic Force tradition who then had to deal with the Yuuzhan Vong in their Galaxy.
    The fourth, his wife, was a former Emperor's Hand.

    Now if I were writing a nonology about the "Legacy of the Force," and I wanted to hit Luke in the breadbasket, I'd make sure that the antagonists could hurt him. Not physically, of course, 'cause he's Luke, but what would happen if all of the previous women had gathered for their own personal reasons against Luke?

    Lumiya, sister to Mara Jade or not, still has her own issues. She very likely doesn't know EXACTLY what Mara had been taught and to secure her position as "top Sith," needs to eradicate her primary competitor.
    Callista, seeing the destruction wrought by the Yuuzhan Vong invasion and the stories of the New Jedi Order having a "variable morality," knows the only way to save the Order to to destroy its leader.
    Akanah, knowing that the only threat to her order is a Force-sensitive planet containing all of the individuals who could destroy her people, needs to eradicate the people standing in the way of the destruction of that planet. (Yuuzhan Vong would very likely not be affected by Fallanassi illusions due to them not being affected by the Force; much like viewscreens and droids aren't)

    Which would make Akanah's attempts at preventing Jacen Solo from leaving at the very beginning of The Joiner King into something far more sinister than a bit-part cameo, wouldn't it?

    Of course, even if I'm right, it doesn't mean that Akanah wasn't trying to lure Jacen into their fold -- or that he wouldn't still turn -- but I felt it worthy enough to at least consider the alternatives... ;)

    EDIT: Legacy == Sith + Jedi + Alternate Force Tradition. ;)
  2. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    dp: I like it. I like it a lot, actually...

    As to the Fallanassi, the actual sensor-fooling part of a White Current illusion must, I think, work on the YV, just like you can throw rocks at them, and just as you can technically use precog to block amphistaff shots. But the "void" effect of the Vong's not-there-ness may have an actively disruptive 'ripple' effect (kinda like a knife is dead metal, but stabs living flesh); so the YV invasion might cause things like Luke's shroud for Yavin to ripple apart...

    And I still say Djinn Altis disappeared into Blackhole, too...

    - The Imperial Ewok
  3. dp4m Chosen One

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    Simply speaking, the Illusion skill of the Force does not affect people viewing through remote sensors or droids.

    Whether Fallanassi techniques better this remains maddeningly inconsistent, but there's no evidence to suggest complete Force-blindess wouldn't not prevent them from being seen if wrapped in the Current.
  4. Ive_Got_Two_Legs Jedi Youngling

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  5. dp4m Chosen One

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    No. Daala is presumed dead.
  6. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    dp: Simply speaking, the Illusion skill of the Force does not affect people viewing through remote sensors or droids.

    Whether Fallanassi techniques better this remains maddeningly inconsistent, but there's no evidence to suggest complete Force-blindess wouldn't not prevent them from being seen if wrapped in the Current.


    It depends on whether the illusion technique is visual or mental, I suppose...

    A propos of the other thread, though, perhaps that's why the droid was stolen with the Flier...? [face_thinking]

    - The Imperial Ewok
  7. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    May 10, 2004
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    d4pm, interesting thoughts you bring up, but... I still don´t see exactly what it all has to do with Jacen, except for your last lines?

    it concentrates more on luke, all his ex-women and the jedi in general it seems
  8. dp4m Chosen One

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    Not really, because it turns the DN trilogy on its ear and implies that Jacen really IS acting heroic if Akanah was trying to prevent his actions at the beginning of TJK.
  9. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    ah now I understand, might be, yub. though I think it is more likely for the other girls to get revenge on luke than akanah. she wasn´t a love of him, just close^^

    but if there is a plot against the jedi, I think the fallanassi are too isolationist and would rather flee or hide instead of taking action.

    and another thought, Revan was a Jedi who wanted to protect the republic, but failed and went darkside in order to make it stronger.
    I can see Jacen not as a sith lord, but in a similar way he could attack or threaten the others to make them stronger and more careful about the coming threats. that way he is not dark, still potentiumish using methods others would call dark, but with good intentions. this is the only way I see him doing what might be called dark.

    but right now he seems more isolating himself from the rest of the jedi pack *to speak with sabas words* so he is there and aids, but still on his own. I wonder less about his future, but more about that of the jedi order. not because of the new philosophy, but because of the way the rest of the galaxy that is not ready for that new view might see the jedi and turn on them. see the troubles with cal omas!

    in my opinion, not with the jedi or jacen is the problem but the main probis with the rest of the galaxy that is not yet ready for a new believe, not only force users can accept it, but also all other beings. though most wouldn´t at that time it seems. which makes it difficult for a minority to live it. so if luke returns the order to the "old but modified style" or continues this path is of less concern to me. more I am interested to see how the rest of thegalaxy reacts and learns, or adapts.
  10. dp4m Chosen One

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    The Fallanassi are isolationist, it's true. But their isolationism has been because no other Force sensitives could detect or find them... which is no longer the case. Luke knows how and Luke is protecting the Yuuzhan Vong (who could also maybe detect them).

    The only way to keep a secret is to make sure no one else knows it, of course.

    Training Jacen may have been their agent against Luke; but like Luke he left before his training was complete...
  11. Corellia_Sunrise Force Ghost

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    But what about Gaeriel Captison?
  12. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    might be, but if the Jedi take the side of the Vong, defending them, then Bothans, Fallanassi, Sith and GFFA are joined on the other side. and jacen is in the middle, trying to prevent both from war.

    hmm.. the outcome or prevention would be very.. difficult to forsee
  13. dp4m Chosen One

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    There was nothing in the text even remotely suggesting that.

    There was, at most (IIRC) a kiss.

    Conversely, we're pretty sure that Luke slept with the other three.

    EDIT: Also, please remember in Sith vs. Vong, Lumiya's main appearance in the NJO-era hus far has been to steal the remaining bafforr pollen from the NR. ;)
  14. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    she has the pollen but will she use it against the vong or will she use it to press the vong into obeying her to make trouble and attack again? she might ask them: extinction or service to the sith?

    ^^
  15. dp4m Chosen One

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    Whatever the case is, acquiring a possible genocidal bioweapon means that she's got her own plans for the Galaxy, whether the Yuuzhan Vong fit in them or not.

    And, assuming the answer was "not," it would stand to reason that Akanah at the very least would go along with eliminating the Yuuzhan Vong as a threat to her people which would again make her attempts at detaining Jacen slightly more suspect...
  16. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    that brings me to the question.. is Lumyia just an illusion by Akanah... or who is controling whom then? hehe

    aside from their illusions, what powers have the fallanassi? and Zonama Sekot's illusions to talk with the jedi "in person", are they the same power?

    I prefer Callista to be evil.. Akanah is weird, but in my opinion not the guiding hand, she is more a tool to mislead and use without knowing she is used by Lumyia.
  17. DropkickJake Jedi Knight

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    How are we sure that Luke slept with the others? Well, except for Mara. Ben proves that I think.
  18. SoloGhost Jedi Knight

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    Oct 28, 2005
    So, what you're saying here is Luke could've been the star of that movie, "The 40 Year-Old Virgin"? [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
  19. DropkickJake Jedi Knight

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    I'm just curious if the books really pointed heavily towards them sleeping together, or if its an assumption the fans made. I like to give characters the benefit of the doubt as far as immorality goes.
  20. SoloGhost Jedi Knight

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    Oct 28, 2005
    Aren't we assuming quite a bit to think that morality in the SW galaxy would be the same as on Earth? Or even planet to planet? It seems to me that morals would widely vary from system to system, according to culture and beliefs.
  21. dp4m Chosen One

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    We have very heavy allusions with Callista (Darksaber) and Akanah (BFC).

    Lumiya / Shira I'd have to dig out the exact issues of Marvel it came from, but it was there.

    EDIT: From the Databank:
    Following the Alliance relocation to a temporary outpost on Arbra, Luke struck up a close friendship with fellow Rogue Squadron member Shira Brie. She was bright, talented and beautiful, and their friendship evolved into something closer.


    Still need the exact Marvel issues though...
  22. DropkickJake Jedi Knight

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    The way each person interperets the books they read is their business, and as long as its left open to interpertation, I will personally assume that they didnt sleep together. Also, ther is nothing to say that the morals are completely different amoung humans in the gffa. It seems to me that the Jedi are the examples of virtue.

    But beleive what you will, it doesnt affect me in any way.
  23. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

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    DropkickJake: Ben proves that I think.

    [face_whistling] No comment! :p

    dp: The key Luke/Shira issue is Screams in the Void, Marvel #61, where Shira collars Farmboy before their mission, hauls him into her arms, and eats his mouth...

    ... followed by a scene-shift to "Sometime Later--"

    It's all good PG-rated Star Wars fun, but you can read it any way you choose...

    Callista, I'm pretty sure there are nudge-and-wink references in Darksaber; Akanah, notoriously, K-Mac was told "no sex in the novels, no sex in the GFFA", so the (plausible-deniable) comfort sex took place in hyperspace, in the chronological gap between two novels...

    DkJ: The way each person interperets the books they read is their business, and as long as its left open to interpertation, I will personally assume that they didnt sleep together. Also, ther is nothing to say that the morals are completely different amoung humans in the gffa. It seems to me that the Jedi are the examples of virtue.

    But beleive what you will, it doesnt affect me in any way.


    =D= =D= Well said!

    Believe what you like - you're absolutely right. If you want to read Luke as unshakeably virtuous, you can, and power to you... :)

    - The Imperial Ewok
  24. dp4m Chosen One

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    Thanks! I was looking for the exact issue there.
  25. DropkickJake Jedi Knight

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    Thank you McEwok. I'm glad to see someone else as easy going about it as I am. It seems to often people get into fights over all this.
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