Full Series Anti-non-human speciesism in the Empire in SW:R

I think it's Pestage and the Peculiar Hat Crew who are responsible for the Empire's anti-alien policies in the EU.

 

I don't think it should be manifested in Jim Crow style laws or anything actively enforced by an admitting government as much as just a passive approval of social oppression and an implied attitude from recruiters and government workers to not hire non-humans and to treat them like crap - just nothing official.

 

For one episode to say that the Empire is anti-alien and another to show Thrawn has the potential to be confusing.

 

True but I really have my doubts about Thrawn even existing for Disney...

 

Palpatine says in Book Of Sith that he plans on making use of existing alien-dislike:

page 155:

Indeed, my subjects will fear me, but that fear will lead to anger. And anger will make my Empire strong. However, anger directed toward authority is dangerous. It must be channelled toward other, weaker subjects. By encouraging fear of the exotic and unusual, a regime can be strengthened. The Empire has uniformity in its symbols and its ideology, which makes it easier to shame those who do not belong and to make them the objects of a galaxy's rage.

The Republic's alien species are the simplest targets. Most humans of the Core already despise looking into their multiple eyes or listening to their clicking, buzzing languages. They hate their bewildering customs and their sharp stench. Coruscant is a seething boil of species, but humans far outnumber any other species. It is an ideal place to sow seeds of suspicion - to instill the idea that those who do not conform are the enemy and enemies must be destroyed. By making the powerless a target, the people will not threaten the one in power. On the contrary, the ruler will be venerated as a hero for exposing the weak.

(later annotations by Palpatine)

Much progress has been made since the time of this writing. Coruscant's mixed species have been walled into Invisible Sectors, and I have rescinded the Republic's slavery ban.

My Imperial Security Bureau starts the rumours, but they spread on their own.

 

See, that's why I hated that Zahn wrote more books and retconned his own character — instead of just keeping him half human, he just had to make him a full alien, which sort of ruins the character somewhat.

 

Thrawn was never supposed to be half human.

And I'm not sure why it would be confusing, considering that rising to high rank despite Imperial specieism is a part of his background.

 

Indeed. People who saw him might have thought he was mixed heritage, saying "He wasn't human - at least, not entirely" but that's them guessing.

Recently, the Chiss were clarified as a "near-human species" in various books - with 20,000-odd years of separation from the parent stock being enough to make them no longer "humans".

 

I maintain that it's absurd for Palpatine to go the route of 100% anti-alien policies. He can scapegoat certain species.

E.G. "The wookiees have been assisting Jedi on Kashyyyk!"

And then rallying public opinion against the Wookiees and using that as justification for their regulation and enslavement.

But to wholesale support anti-alien policies would contradict Palpatine's motives in the above Book of Sith excerpt in that he's alienating ALL of those species represented in the senate (the senate that he has to keep happy) and turning their anger toward authority, which is exactly what he says he DOESN'T want.

Going through on an individual basis and fear mongering to turn hate toward species x, y and z is one thing. To put humans on a pedestal and endorsing political decisions based on "speciesism" is just foolish. The situation is not at all the same as Nazi Germany's and so why they would insist on making a square peg fit into a round hole by trying to justify Palpatine's policies as those of Germany scapegoating slavs and Jews is ridiculous IMO. Hitler could create a sense of ultra-nationalism and a sense of German superiority by scapegoating the minorities within and outside the state. Humanity might be a plurality within the Republic, but nothing in the films led me to believe they are majority.

The novels and comics released month after month can do whatever they want and have all the time in the world to develop some kind of complicated and convoluted political situation in which Palpatine decides to mirror Nazi Germany anyway, despite his situation not being remotely the same. But in a show like Rebels, I feel it's best left not touched upon, and I wouldn't be at all upset if it's flat out contradicted.

Saying that there was pre-existing anti-alien sentiments is an arbitrary stance for the EU to take, since the prequels did not so anything of the sort.

They're making a show accessible to all ages, I would assume. And as someone else pointed out, it's just confusing that Palpatine trained Maul; he worked closely with aliens including Mas Amedda throughout the Clone Wars; many of those said aliens applauded him when he declared himself Emperor; and now we see a main/major villain (the Inquisitor) is also an alien, but they are going to turn around and say that the Empire is prejudiced against non-humans?

I mean, yes, in Nazi Germany there were complicated instances in which Hitler struggled with just who would and would not be executed for their heritage. For instance many Nazis had Jewish ancestry if you went back far enough, or sometimes not even very far back at all. And eventually he started giving these individuals pardons from the Holocaust. So in the EU's convoluted take on anti-alien policies, they could address that more complicated situation where someone like Thrawn might get overlooked based on ability or loyalty. But that's hardly accessible, especially if you only follow the higher levels of canon, in which we frankly saw no anti-alien sentiment except in assuming that the Empire was based on the makeup of its military.

But even then the Emperor hired alien bounty hunters and spies.

 

Palpatine always came across to me as someone who felt that everyone was inferior to him. So he no problem using the inferior that could best serve him at a particular task. He the guy to use anything to keep power so if Anti-Alien feeling works he would use it. If anyone had problems with his choice of Admirals, like Thrawn, they would have to face him personally, and that wouldn't turnout well for the decenter.

 

The thing is, I don't see why anti-alien feelings would work to his advantage in any way.

He can scapegoat the Jedi, and he can scapegoat those governments that help the Jedi. In ROTS it looked like the clones were looking for wookiees, presumably to round them up for helping Yoda escape. Back before they overhauled the OS, the databank (I think for the Utapauans) had said something about how after Order 66, martial law was declared and the resistance fighters were rounded up (presumably what we see happening after Order 66 when Obi-Wan is sneaking his way to Grievous' fighter and we see the Utapauans being marched off).

So, to that degree, I could see very specific planets/aliens being targeted by the Imperial propaganda machine. If the Kashyyyk government is labeled as traitorous to the Empire for assisting in the Jedi Rebellion, I could see clones going into the senate and escorting the Kashyyyk senator away to be put into some labor camp with the rest of his people.

I can't see clones going in and purging the ENTIRE senate of its alien members, or the senate being that corrupt that the senators would look the other way as their represented peoples become second class citizens, if not slaves.

We know they can't be that corrupt, since Rebel sympathy in the senate was said to be on the rise by the time of ANH, and there is dialogue that supports the idea that the Imperials were concerned with keeping the senate content (thus I can't fathom Palpatine can, with any coherent logic, put forth anti-alien policies).

Creating a witch hunt and purging elements from the government that might oppose him is one thing, trying to oppress what seems to be the majority (after you lump all aliens together) just seems ridiculous, serving no purpose, limiting the talent pool from what were otherwise loyal aliens, etc.

Was Palpatine also a white supremacist just because we don't see any non-white Imperials? I can't fathom that he was. I would be all for seeing black Imperials, etc. as well as females, and as well as aliens. Just because they weren't on screen doesn't mean they don't exist (which is ironically the route the EU goes when handling things like female stormtroopers).

 

As a nitpick - is he? The design looks more like just your standard disfigured darksider to me.

(Apart from that I basically agree with your post).

 

He's a Pau'an...

 

Indeed he is a Pau'un. Hidalgo confirmed it.

 

Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, toward the end, has the Senator taken into "custody" after the Empire has found Jedi on that planet, killed most of them, and started taking Wookiees away as slave workers- Tarkin had planned on using them the moment hints appeared that Kashyyyk might have Jedi on it.)

The Emperor was making a few excuses to the Senate before that, for perceived humanocentrism- "Yes, my governors are human, most of my military is human - merely the result of circumstance"

I figure it slowly accelerated between then and ANH.

 

the palpatine of the PT shows direct evidence that palpatine was not racist ie Darth Maul, Mas Amedda, Sly Moore, if you look at the rebels on hoth and yavin they had exactly one alien and that was Chewbacca, so they must also be racist and sexist, no female pilots or troopers, only in ROTJ do we finally see Alien rebels and only 4 species, Mon Cal, Ishi Tib, Sullustian, and Dressialian,

 

We also have that imperial officer saying "Where are you taking this … thing?"

Though, on the other side of the coin, we have Leia saying "Will someone get this walking carpet out of my way"

Palpatine certainly makes use of alien henchmen- but it may have more to do with "those particular people happen to have rare and useful talents, such as ability to use the Force" in some cases. Moore & Maul, for example. And Amedda was already Speaker by the time Palpatine became Supreme Chancellor.

 

Palpatine see's every one as useful or unuseful, for me or against me, their is no racism, he is an equal opportunity exploiter. basicaly "I am not racist I hate every one"

 

Quite possibly. He may, however, have projected a "dislikes aliens" attitude later in his career as Emperor- enough at least for it to become "well known" to both Rebels & Imperials.

 

Canon wise, the Empire that exists in this time period (later on in the EU, the post-ROTJ empires would be more relaxed on this) was racist towards many alien species (not only just to aliens, but to near-humans as well, example being towards Thrawn by some imperials, since he wasn't a genetic baseline human).

We have several main characters in Rebels that are aliens.

So I think it would be a good idea to explore this theme of the empires racism. I'm not saying it should be in your face representation of this theme, but it should still be there.

And if anti-alien ideology is shown. I think it should not just be shown within the Imperial military, but also existing in some of your common/average human citizens of the Empire. After all, its not like people in the Imperial military were the ONLY anti-alien people to exist.

Perhaps the former CIS having many aliens apart of it, could have helped to fuel the flames.

Or do you believe that this aspect of the Empire should not be shown on a kids show?

And yes im aware the Inquisitor is an alien on the Empires side, but the show could present that just because there are aliens working for/apart of the Empire, does not mean there isn't any anti-alien sentiment within the Empire.

Tarados: Merging this thread with the existing thread for discussion of alien prejudice in Rebels.

 

There is no canon, therefore nothing exists "canon-wise".

But I think the Empire should be full of swastikas. Symbolism, like in the Mortis arc that so many loved.

 

Ahahaha, good one !
If the series was full of Swastikas, it would not be shown here as that symbol is forbidden unless shown in a historical context.
I ripped my kid a new one when he built a ship in Minecraft and decorated it with a Swastika, and since that day he always panics when he sees one.

Imperial speciesism is an EU thing mostly, so we'll see if the series expands on that concept or ignores it altogether.

 

Probably not as bad or extreme as some of the EU would have you believe. The fact that there is a non-human inquisitor and he blatantly appears on Imperial propaganda posters makes it pretty inevitable that the Imperial speciesism will be heavily toned down, if it appears at all.

If it does appear, it may be directed at certain specific species who have antagonized the empire (Wookiees for example) rather than at non-humans as a whole.

Also, there is already a thread on this.

 

As I said in another thread it makes more sense in SW-context to have problems between different species than just between humans- and non-humans. Systematic discrimination of some species is something they shouldn't let go, but humanocentrism shouldn't be only form of it.

Same said in other words

Yet there was a lot of aliens in cantina and Jabba's palace, they could have just reuse the masks they already had.

This has always bothered me....

I think it is noteworthy that this is only true what comes to rebels- ALL imperials are still humans- that really tells to me that George didn't want empire to have aliens- well at least back then....

 

I always figured EU did the Empire anti-alien thing to explain why the Empire only has humans in it in the films. Going by that, it would make sense for Rebels to follow suit, because otherwise there would be a clash between Rebels having aliens in the Empire and the films not.