anybody notice that KJA's series and I, Jedi tell contradict

Although I have read I,Jedi, I haven't read JAT yet, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Argument over 2nd wave: If Jacen killed the first wave, there are plenty of reasons why Exar should continue.
1: Beginner's luck. 2: Jacen tiring, Luke's influence weakening, 3: If at first you don't succeed, try and try again.

Complaining about how Corran manages to put 2 and 2 together: he was a CorSec officer, he was trained to do that.

Corran beating Luke: I don't think that Luke was "a master swordsman", and Corran has had more experience in brawls and fighting than Luke's probably had. Luke IS more of a pilot than a knight.

There. Continue to argue if you're not convinced, but there's my opinions.

 

Corran beating Luke: I don't think that Luke was "a master swordsman", and Corran has had more experience in brawls and fighting than Luke's probably had

Luke had been using a sabre for at least five years. Corran had started recently. Yet he still wins.

 

JediJSolo - Exar Kun was not the brightest bloke to begin with. Imagine what hanging around a temple for 4,000 years would do to your tactical ability. Remember RotJ ? and other examples where attacks come in waves ? They don't stop sending forces to attack just because the first wave was beaten. If anything, Kun sent in another wave because the enemy defences had increased. More Jedi, send in more beasts, get a feel for their reactions under combat scenarios and start probing for weaknesses to exploit. Kun might have been hoping to kill a trainee or two at the same time. The longer Kun lets Luke's body stay intact, the more time the trainees and/or Luke have to figure out how to put him back in it, so best to keep up the assault and hope one gets lucky. That's the logic behind TIE waves in RotJ, to gnaw away and weaken the starfighter defence.

With the whole swoardsman thingy, Luke has been flitting in between Dark and Light recently (at the time), in fact some would later say that he shouldn't have even been teaching at this time, he's having students getting eaten up for breakfast by some Dark Side ghost hanging around like an ingrown toenail, the pressures of his first class ever, it's understandable that Luke may not be on his best game and Corran gets lucky because of that. There could be something going on here that we hadn't anticipated ; since it may not be productive to kick his student's stuffings out in every single duel, do you think it's possible that Luke might intentionally lose a fight every now and again ?

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, and as i recall, you're not the one who wrote the book, so if MAS decides that Luke (who is kinda in the deep end teaching his first class all by himself) might call on for a little advice and has him call on experienced people (Luke had never actually been subject to a proper authoritive organisation before and he really wants to do this right) then that's MAS' perogative, and i think it makes some sense, though it might not to you. Luke brought Brakiss into the fold because Luke was experiencing delusions of granduer : he's beginning to think that redemption is easy, and it is totally his fault what happened to Brakiss. Luke thought he had all the answers, he was basically arrogant and full of pride and he made a mistake.

Why should there be other perspectives in a first person novel ? I don't see Tomorrow When the War Began deciding it's had enough of been Ellie and flip to Homer's perspective. I would have serious doubts about Corran's upstairs facilities if he started thinking he was another person This wasn't a main sotry line book. It was as you call it, a side book, though i don't really think of the X-wings that way, they often must play second fiddle to the 'main heroes'. If you even wanted the whole story, you had to read JAT, which it was a supplement to. JAT was the main story, I,Jedi was Corran's story, you clearly have difficulty understanding that concept. Most people who wanted to buy this book were X-wing fans to begin with, and it was a continuation of the X-wings in some aspects. For others, i think it was fairly obvious who Corran was and easy to figure out that he's a Rogue pilot with Force sensitivity.

 

TC...
ROTFLMAO!

You're not Mike Stackpole's sock by any chance are you.

I could've sworn I was reading an exerpt of a new Corran book.

 

Rogue-Jedi: Argument over 2nd wave: If Jacen killed the first wave, there are plenty of reasons why Exar should continue.
1: Beginner's luck. 2: Jacen tiring, Luke's influence weakening, 3: If at first you don't succeed, try and try again.

1.?In my experience, there?s no such thing as luck.?
2.Prove that Luke?s influence was weakening. And besides, most of the other trainees had gotten there by that time. Jacen wouldn?t have needed to do as much.
3.I?ll remember that the next time I try to bench-press my grandfather?s truck.

Complaining about how Corran manages to put 2 and 2 together: he was a CorSec officer, he was trained to do that.

Corran had no experience with being a Jedi nor any experience with fighting Dark Jedi. It?s unrealistic for one person to come up with a solution if they have no real knowledge of all of the variables. What is more realistic is if all of the students worked together to find a solution. That way, they would be more likely to get all of the variables involved. But that?s not what happened; Corran, all by his little self, came up with the entire plan of how to destroy Exar Kun. That?s just ludicrous.

I don't think that Luke was "a master swordsman",

See ROTJ. It was a different fighting style (power over agility) but Luke did defeat the Jedi who destroyed the majority of the Jedi order. That says a great deal about his swordsman ship.

Luke IS more of a pilot than a knight.

Not any more. That stopped being true around the end of ESB. Give me an example of a time after that when he demonstrated more ability with flying than with being a Jedi.

DaJames2: Exar Kun was not the brightest bloke to begin with.

Being dim is one thing. Being downright stupid is something completely different.

Remember RotJ ? and other examples where attacks come in waves ? They don't stop sending forces to attack just because the first wave was beaten.

Nearly unlimited resources and stormtroopers (near definition of ?mindless drone?) are reasons why that happened. If you have nearly unlimited resources, you wouldn?t mind sending a large amount of resources to do little more than weaken your enemy. However, Exar Kun did not have unlimited resources. 4,000 years with those limited resources would have taught even the dumbest tactician of this.

More Jedi, send in more beasts, get a feel for their reactions under combat scenarios and start probing for weaknesses to exploit.

First of all, he already knew all of their weaknesses. He could see right though every single one of them. His final moments proved this.

Secondly, he didn?t send more beasts. If I?m not mistaken, he sent about the same number as before. How?s that for stupid? You didn?t get through with the first wave, so you don?t change any of your tactics with the second wave, even though your enemy?s defenses are even greater.

The longer Kun lets Luke's body stay intact, the more time the trainees and/or Luke have to figure out how to put him back in it, so best to keep up the assault and hope one gets lucky. That's the logic behind TIE waves in RotJ, to gnaw away and weaken the starfighter defence.

Wasting your resources, hoping that someone won?t get lucky only works if you?ve got resources to waist. Kun didn?t, and he knew that.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, and as i recall, you're not the one who wrote the book, so if MAS decides that Luke (who is kinda in the deep end teaching his first class all by himself) might call on for a little advice and has him call on experienced people (Luke had never actually been subject to a proper authoritive organisation before and he really wants to do this right) then that's MAS' perogative, and i think it makes some sense, though it might not to you.

It makes perfect sense to me. The problem is that Luke didn?t call on experienced people. He called on one experienced person and two ignorant people who knew much less a

 

noo... i hate these threads.... just reading them gets me so worked up, and it's an incredible effort to restrain myself from unleashing my hatred for corran on the forum in such a violent way that i'm immediately banned for life...

...must...not...bash...corran....

AAARRRGGGHHH

LUKE FOREVER

 

This goes to JediJSolo and the whole discussion on the marketing of I, Jedi and people who'd never read the X-wing series first.

JediJSolo says something about how it is presented to us as a mainstream book and how people who'd never read the X-wing book would be disappointed because they expect to read about someone they already knew. When I was first starting to get into SW books a few years ago, I spotted I, Jedi in the library. I could tell just by looking at the cover that it was not going to be just about people I knew. Yes, Luke's picture is on the cover, but in the foreground is a picture of a man I'd never seen before. Logic told me that this man was going to be a major character.

Even so, I was intrigued by the title and so checked it out. I read the summary/blurb on the inside of the cover jacket. Not once did I get the impression from it that it would be a book about Luke, Han, or anyone else from the movies. I was at a stage where I wanted to read about the movie characters, especially Luke. It was obvious to me that the book would be about a man named Corran Horn. I even was able to figure out (can't remember how exactly) that he had been written about in the X-wing series, so I at least knew he came from SOMEWHERE, just not from anything I'd read up to that time.

In my case, I was intrigued enough by the premise to go check out the X-wing books and read those first so I would know who Corran was. I was tempted to just read the book, but I made a vow years ago never to read a book 2 without reading book 1 of a series first. Although I, Jedi was not being billed as part of a series, since it featured a character that came from another series, I was able to figure out that the author would probably be drawing on past character and plot developments when writing this book.

Was I disappointed? When I first found out he was a character from the X-wing series, I admit I was, but not because he wasn't someone I already knew. I was disappointed because I felt like I had to read that series, a series I had originally decided to bypass because books about a squadron of fighter pilots didn't sound that interesting to me. But the premise of I, Jedi (which has never seemed to me to be a "mainstream" book) intrigued me so much that I ended up tracking them down. I have never had cause to regret it. I became hooked and have not looked back since.

I will concede that some people might be disappointed at first that the book is not about Luke. But anyone who picks up the book, looks at the cover, reads the back summary, and STILL expects it to be about a movie character deserves to be disappointed. It very clearly indicates the book is about a man named Corran Horn and his quest to become a Jedi and retrieve his wife.

 

We don't really have an accurate idea of how many creatures there are in the jungle, so we can't really make any judgements about how wisely Kun spent his resources. Could be that he simply sent out the call for any flying monsters in the area and the waves just indicated how far away x number of creatures came from. I don't really see a problem with there been secondary parts to a battle, even unimportant secondary parts.

I'm sorry that you don't like I,Jedi. I find it a very good book and i liked it more than JAT. I also find the X-wing books very rewarding and fun, a good change of pace and i like Corran. By any chance, JediJSolo, do you like the X-wing books ?

Also note, that those who are exposed to raw Dark Side energies, and/or their very existence relies on Dark Side energies, tend to plan strategies very well or even think logically.

 

Been years. Memory fuzzy. Wasn't credit given to Jacen in I, Jedi for defending Luke until the rest of the Trainees arrived? Corran being just one of them.

 

Ghengis; high praise.

TC

 

Kelly: ?which has never seemed to me to be a "mainstream" book?

Well, call me crazy, but the fact that the book is referenced multiple times in the NJO makes is seem a lot like a main stream book to me. The fact that Corran Horn is brought into the NJO with almost no introduction whatsoever, also makes I, Jedi seem like a main stream book.

I will concede that some people might be disappointed at first that the book is not about Luke. But anyone who picks up the book, looks at the cover, reads the back summary, and STILL expects it to be about a movie character deserves to be disappointed.

True. The problem is that, despite the fact that it was obviously about someone who wasn?t main stream, it was still presented as a main stream book. Again, if it had a big label on the front that said something to the effect of ?don?t read this if you don?t care about side stories? (like ?X-Wing? or ?Tails of the??) then I wouldn?t be complaining as much. But it had no such label because it wasn?t a side story to begin with. Corran has become a major character in the NJO and I, Jedi has been referenced multiple times in the Zahn duology and the NJO.

I disapprove of a first-person SW book to begin with, and I absolutely disapprove of a main stream first-person SW book.

DaJames2: We don't really have an accurate idea of how many creatures there are in the jungle, so we can't really make any judgements about how wisely Kun spent his resources.

A provably accurate judgment? No. But would you be against an educated guess? How many of these creatures have you ever read about on Yavin 4? Personally, I can?t remember reading about them anywhere other than in the JAT and I, Jedi. That would lead me to believe that they are very rare.

I seem to recall that they had been hibernating for an extremely long time, just waiting for their master to awaken them. This would lead me to believe that Kun needed to stock pile these ferocious beasts; again demonstrating a limited supply.

As I recall, these creatures have never been seen since the attack on Luke. This would again lead me to believe that they were in short supply to begin with, and that they might have all died in the attack.

Kun had a limited supply. Is that provably accurate? No, but it?s the theory with the most evidence supporting it.

By any chance, JediJSolo, do you like the X-wing books ?

Not the ones written by MAS. I forced myself though the first book and I simply couldn?t bring myself to finish the second one. I got bored with Corran very quickly, and I tried to skip around and read about characters that I liked. That didn?t turn out too well, considering that, despite the fact that there are other characters in the books, MAS somehow manages to make the books all Corran.

However, Starfighters of Adumar is my second favorite Bantam era book. I tried to get though Wraith Squadron, but I had to put it aside to read Fellowship of the Ring before the movie came out, and then SbS came out, and to make a long story short, I just haven?t gotten back to it yet.

Also note, that those who are exposed to raw Dark Side energies, and/or their very existence relies on Dark Side energies, tend to plan strategies very well or even think logically.

I think you skipped a ?not? in that sentence somewhere? Anyway, can you say the same thing about the Emperor? He thought extremely clearly; more clearly then most of the old Jedi order combined it would appear. He made one fatal mistake, but that was about all of the mistakes that he made.

 

Yes i did mean "not". Right after 'do' and before 'plan' and 'well'

In all the books and comics, we only really see about a ten maybe twenty K square radius of an entire planet. Except in Heirs of the Force, where the jungle was not a good place to be hanging out. There could be hundreds of these things scattered all over the planet, and i'm certain he has other creatures as well (like the thing seen in Classic SW), anyway unless it's answered in a Sourcebook, we really don't know but my educated guess would be somewhere in the range of 30-40 if hard to make, 250-300 if only moderately hard to make, and this does not take into account any breeding that may have occurred before they went into hibernation.

"MAS somehow manages to make the books all Corran" - Well, Lucas somehow made the SW movies all Skywalker


Off-topic : Did you enjoy FoTR ? Both the book and/or the movie ?

 

DaJames2: There could be hundreds of these things scattered all over the planet

It?s a moon, not a planet. Small difference, but that sphere is significantly smaller than the Earth.

and i'm certain he has other creatures as well (like the thing seen in Classic SW)

Me too. The trouble is that these flying beasts were his best bet (I don?t know anything about the creatures you?re referring to, but I?m assuming it?s like the one that popped up in the YJK). He should have saved his resources until he could regroup and coordinate a better attack. That?s not all that smart, it?s just common sense when you?ve been beaten that badly (going into your cave to lick your wounds and all).

we really don't know but my educated guess would be somewhere in the range of 30-40 if hard to make,

Hard to make? These things weren?t made, they were born a long time ago (probably when the Massasi (sp?) were still running the place), and were hibernating. And besides, where is this educated guess coming from? Yavin 4 isn?t Earth. Any educated guess based on Earth biology would be pointless.

Did you enjoy FoTR ? Both the book and/or the movie ?

Absolutely! I?m going to be very disappointed if FoTR doesn?t get the Oscar for best picture. I know that it got the UK equivalent (I think) but I?m an American, so I?m more interested in the Oscars.

You kind of need to be in the right mood for the books though. If you?re in a hurry, the books will drive you mad with all of the songs and over description that goes on. But I?m almost never in a hurry when I read, because I?m a slow reader to begin with. Tolkien created an amazing world, but he might have made the books a little too descriptive, by today?s standard, at least.

 

"It?s a moon, not a planet. Small difference, but that sphere is significantly smaller than the Earth."


Actually yavin is a moon around a gas giant. As I recall, ? their are moons around either jupiter or saturn that as big as earth. On another point one has to think about size of planet needed to hold an atmosphere to sustain life. Yes while yavin 4 was terraformed years before by underground systems, after those systems were destroyed it still able to produce it's own natural weather from that point on and support life. So it has to be pretty big to keep that atmosphere.

As well, endor itself is a moon around a gas giant as well according to the sources is almost about the size of earth as I recall.

 

I don't know, Yavin is a pretty big gas planet. Do you have any actual figures to prove your claim that Yavin 4 is smaller than Earth?

 

JediJSolo - Well, since there's no real hard data for Yavin IV that i at least have access to, then i'm free to guess though with the Sith, more has always been good and bigger has always been better. Since those things seemed to respond very well to Exar Kun (like him been their master) i assumed he had a hand in their creation. Kun never really left things how he found them.

Unless i'm in the mood, i always skip the songs in LoTR. I loved the movie, it's a great interpretation of the novel, can't wait for the Two Towers. Nowadays, i can actually really enjoy the Tom Bombadil section without feeling like it's a hole in the story, because of the relevation of his identity.