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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Anyone else prefer Palpatine as he was before he got his face melted?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Tyber_Zahn, Jan 13, 2009.

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  1. Daft-Vader

    Daft-Vader Chosen One star 8

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    Aug 6, 2008
    As a thought, anyone get a shot of Ian MacDiarmid from ROTJ with makeup but without the hood up, so we can compare them better?
     
  2. xx_Anakin_xx

    xx_Anakin_xx Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 9, 2008
    I preferred the scarred and horrendous looking being myself. The before the melt look was too much the 'stately old gentlemen' whereas the after look was more in line with a dastardly villain. I like Lord Sidious the tortured looking villain much better - he sort of meshed well with Vader.
     
  3. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Sep 20, 2008
    Problem is he also started acting like a dastardly villain as well, and in so doing lost all of his depth of character.
     
  4. Daft-Vader

    Daft-Vader Chosen One star 8

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    Aug 6, 2008
    How so?
     
  5. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Sep 20, 2008
    They was nothing particularly subtle or complex about melted face Palpatine. He was on a par with Mumra from Thundercats. I think Count Dooku is a better way for a powerful Sith Lord to behave, evil but with a certain amount elegance and class. Along the lines of say a top Mafia crime lord.
     
  6. Daft-Vader

    Daft-Vader Chosen One star 8

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    Aug 6, 2008
    But once he becomes melted Palpatine, there is no reason to be so subtle - the Jedi are destroyed, and he has all but complete control of the senate
     
  7. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Sep 20, 2008
    I know he reverted back to his normal self, but his normal self happened to be Mumra from Thundercats, which just wasn't very interesting. Even Darth Vader in his cyborg form had a bit more depth of character than that.
     
  8. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Oddly, before the whole Plagueis thing came out, I always pictured Palpatine's master as Mumm-Ra.
     
  9. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 30, 2005
    Yeah, but there was nothing particularly subtle or complex about the ROTJ Emperor. He was, for all intents and purposes, the Wicked Witch of the Death Star.

    Perhaps Lucas is making a commentary on tyrants--how they're all just sneering, cackling little children who stomp around in their desire to control as wide a sphere as possible.
     
  10. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Sep 20, 2008
    At least the ROTJ Emperor had a certain amount of mystery as at the time you didn't really know who he was, only that he was there and evil. But we got to know the non-melted face Palpatine fairly well during the course of PT, and he was an interesting character, then his face was melted and all his character went out the window along with Mace Windu.
     
  11. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    He had more depth of character than Anakin or Padme were able to come up with over the course of three movies...
     
  12. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 30, 2005
    Look at it this way, Tyber Zahn...

    Imagine being forced to wear a mask for decades. To engage in polite discourse with a cadre of monks whom you utterly despise. To play Grandpa to an emotionally needy boy for ten years.

    Now imagine how good it would feel, when you could finally drop the pretense. When all those years of playing chess in your head 24/7 wrought some payoff.

    You'd be effusive. You'd be in ecstasy. You'd be giggling your sick, demented tuckus off, as you zapped Big Obstacle #2 out the window. As you literally threw democracy down upon the head of Big Obstacle #1.

    It'd be glorious. It would probably take you 20 years to get the glee out of your system. (Even then, you'd still be tempted to cackle after saying something like, "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.")
     
  13. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    I should also point out that a subtle and nuanced performance by McDiarmid =/= a deep and complex character.

    The thing that makes non-melty Palps so much fun is the fact that he's actually Cackly McEvildude the whole time; he's just REALLY GOOD at making everyone around him think he's a rational human being.

    McDiarmid is good at showing the audience the evil madman behind the mask of the friendly, sometimes doofy senator/chancellor. But the character himself never actually develops. He's pure evil from the first frame of TPM to the last of RotJ. Any development that may have taken place to get him to that point happened long before the movies start telling the story. All the things that look like "character struggle" moments are clearly a show he's putting on for those around him.

    So, to criticize melty-face for being one-dimensional while heralding non-melty as some deep character is, IMO, to confuse the layers required in performance with depth of character.
     
  14. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Sep 20, 2008
    It's not like he was constantly having to play the part of Mr Nice Guy for decades. He could just be himself when dealing with the Trade Federation, CIS, Count Dooku or what have you, he never cackled hysterically at any of them in a villainous way. Even when Mace Windu came to arrest him he retained his cool, there was no cackling, "UNLIMITED POWER!" or the scary voice until after his face got melted.
     
  15. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    Except he was playing a part with the TF and Dooku as well. He brought Dooku over to his side by persuading him it was the right thing. Dooku was never a "Mwahahaha!" sort of evil guy; he was a "I'm better and smarter than you, so I should rule" sort of evil.

    And look at how nervous even restrained Palps made the Neimoidians in TPM. If he'd been all cackly about it they never would have joined with him.

    All I'm going to say about the Mace duel/Anakin's turn scene is this: Lucas botched that scene on nearly every level. Anakin's nonsensical turn, bad makeup, unnecessary vocal effects; it's just pretty horrible.

    After that scene, however, we have a Palpatine who has won (or thinks he has), so there's no more need to keep his cackliness in check.
     
  16. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    I for one like the unnecessary vocal effects.
     
  17. Obi-Chron

    Obi-Chron Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 11, 2003
    ^^^

    Yesssssssss! Iiiii . . . like them . . . toooooooo!

    Seriously, I'm with Fenn on this one.

    And Sidious is so totally one with the dark side afer sending Windu out the window. The Sith Master is 'coming' down from an orgasm of darknesss. He is victorious. He now has total "unmlimited power! He has realized Bane's 'revenge.

    Spooky good stuff.
     
  18. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Sep 20, 2008
    But did he really have to cackle throughout his entire fight with Yoda in Senate? He ruined a dramatic scene in the film.
     
  19. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    That's the whole point. For all the violence and all the energy Yoda was putting into it, Palpatine had him beat from the start.

    If anything ruined the drama, it was the intercutting between the duels. Obi-Wan vs. Anakin had the drama, Yoda vs. Palps was just gratuitous action.
     
  20. BarkingFrog

    BarkingFrog Jedi Master star 2

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    Jan 4, 2009
    I agree. I loved the endless cackling.

    The whole duel seemed effortless for him. He was just having a dandy time as he was killing the most powerful Jedi he knew. Even when Yoda throws that one pod back at him, Palpatine doesn't show any fear. He just gets mad because Yoda ruined his fun.
     
  21. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    It also makes the moment where Yoda makes the Emperor scream in terror by reflecting his lightning more striking than it would be if he had behaved more sanely for the rest of the duel.
     
  22. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    Anyone else prefer Palpatine as he was before he got his face melted?

    Yes!Yes! A thousand times Yes!

    See Ian's pretty old already, so they could've just given him some Sith eyes, put on a little make up to make him even more pale, maybe do some dark veins around his forehead and neck.. he would've looked perfect and actually coincide with Palps in ROTJ.

    When his "face melted" he just started looking ridiculous.

    I mean, he melted his own face. You'd think once he realized Mace was gonna keep fending it off, he'd stop charing his own flesh. I mean, I would've just given the back of Mace's leg a swift hook so he'd fall, catch him off guard. Not just sit there zapping lightning going back into my own face while laughing like a maniac.

    Though, that just illustrates how crazy insane the darkside is.
     
  23. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    This. And was there a BETTER Palpatine
    moment in all the PT than when he's standing on the POD, cackling while Yoda's trying to send ONE back at him? IMO; regarding the flying-pods, there has never been a greater display of using the Force.

     
  24. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Sep 20, 2008
    Starkiller bringing down a Stardestroyer in TFU would technically be a far greater display of the Force.
     
  25. Darth_Drachonus

    Darth_Drachonus Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 4, 2005
    But much like the old Clone War shorts, a blantant overpowering of the Force. Starkiller's powers were on steroids. While fun, and wonderous to look at, cheapened his death at the hands of the Emporer(blackened for spoiler) in my opinion. I prefer the movie, and KoToR depictions of the force myself. As for the original question? Both are just fine by me.
     
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